Maybe they had different conditions when they became teachers? Like all professions, it's gone through a radical change in the last couple of deacades. They were actually paid a lot less when my parents became teachers, but it's not the money that is relevant to them. As a lifestyle, teaching is a completely different job to what it was 30 years ago. There's so many boxes to be ticked, hoops to jump through, targets to be met - most teachers spend as much time in meetings and doing paperwork and pointless administration for the Government as they do actually bloody teaching!! Alas, this isn't really the point of the topic so I'll wrap that up by saying: if teachers actually got to TEACH as much anymore, I wouldn't even me writing this.

 

As for "how many teachers are actually any good at their job?" - it's sheer ignorance to suggest that there are more teachers who aren't good at their job than any other career. You wouldn't find anyone saying "Oh, that doctor should be payed 10% less than average wage because more people die when he treats them" would you? Not everyone in every job is amazing at it obviously. But, I know for a fact that at least in the School I attended, that 99% of the teachers were completely passionate about giving their pupils the best chance they can in life. If you had a different experience whilst you were at school rob, that's unfortunate, but you can't deny that a LOT of teachers do a bloody good job.

 

& whilst I'm ranting, you SHOULD be bothered how long people work, if you're gonna debate how much they should be paid, surely?!

 

Well said!

 

After an hours meeting last night I mentioned to my head teacher how nice it would be if I was actually allowed to close my classroom door and actually teach the children

 

Teaching has changed radically in the last 10 years, I became a teacher because I want to teach children, I am rarely afforded that luxury.

I tick boxes, jump through hoops and provide paperwork that would make your eyes water - paperwork that does not add anything to a child's education.

For example, a few years ago it was almost impossible to exclude a pupil, now it is a fairly simple move. College's can chuck people out of courses for getting D's and E's, even if they putting the effort in.

 

At my old high school, if you didn't have a good enough attendance rate, and you weren't doing as well as was expected of you, you were handed a leavers form and told to leave.

 

dunno if they still do that or not with the new rector.

 

I am for the strike, it doesn't affect me :lol: but i see their point.

 

However, bloody insensitive time to do it tbh

Yes teachers arrive at schol at 9am, where the magic faireis have planned lessons, found resources, and laid the classroom out.

They then drink coffe and go home at 3.30 while those magic fairies mark work, attend meetings, look after the children who feckless parent scan't be bothered get to shcool on time to collect!!!

 

Excuse my sarcasm :rolleyes:

 

If teachers have such an easy life, if it is all sooooooo easy why is there a desperate shortage of teachers???

 

As I have stated before I consider myself well paid and yes I do have good holidays.

 

I also work BLOODY hard. this week I have arrived home at 8pm on Monday dues to meetings and 2 nights this week have been sat completing paperwork until gone 10pm!

but the strike....

 

All workers have the right to strike. All workers have the right to express an opinion.

 

This strike was not about "4%"

It was the imposed nature of the pay settlement - no negotiation - and set for 3 years.

 

Yes 4% may only be slightly below inflation, this year may not be a huge issues - but in 3 years??

Who knows what inflation will be then?

 

Gordon Brown stated that this pay rise was the result of an independent review ...... well the MPs had one of them too but they chose to ignore it!

 

For the record I did not strike.

 

hold on a mo....

 

"over three years"?..... if you are saying that this 4% teachers are asking for is the only rise theyll get for 3 years then i withdraw my earlier comments about them wanting too much. this was not reported in the media. and the media and other public sector workers should be fully aware that this is a three year paydeal

 

im still against strike action though....

 

However, bloody insensitive time to do it tbh

 

As I said in my previous post, that's the point. Every day does count at the moment, especially for GCSE students so a lot of teachers won't have been on strike (I know a lot at my old school weren't), but the hype about this weeks before GCSE's makes people pay attention to their cause. Some Tuesday in December, and no-one would have cared. It's just the same effect as when the posties went on strike last October and we were told it 'could last weeks' and everyone started crapping themselves about whether their christmas cards would get there on time. If you're gonna strike, do it at a time someone will care, at least!

 

But I agree, a lot of teachers with something about them won't have been on strike (see ICR for example!)

I don't actually know the average wage - it all depends on what you teach, at what level, whether you're in management etc, so it's quite difficult to tell.

 

All I know is that teachers do NOT have the best holidays. Both my parents are teachers and, to be honest, I don't see them much, or when I do, they're frequently doing work at the same time. Take Easter. My mum teaches Food Tech, and spent the first 3 days of holidays with me, then the rest of the two weeks marking coursework from before I even woke up, til about 7pm, and by the end of the day was too knackered from it all to do anything with the free time left. My Dad teaches Maths, and is Assistant Head, and spend all but one days of the Easter holiday in his office at work, devising next years timetable. People have no idea how hard teachers work during their holidays, and the time they're not paid for, unless they have first hand experience. It's so easy to think teachers spend 13 weeks a year sat on their arse, but it just isn't the case. Sorry.

 

And that doesn't even start on their actual job. It is actually laughable, Chris, that you think teachers work 7 hours a day. Both my parents leave the house at 7am, and get in about 6 after staying for after-school classes and study support (for example, Mum has to stay and cook with the kids in order for them to get enough practical experience for them to get a deacent coursework mark. If a kid wants more than a B or C at GCSE, there just isn't enough timetabled time in the academic year - and she think it's her duty to get the kids who care about their grades to get them the best possible mark).

 

I know this post sounds full of self-pity and "woe is me, I never see my folks!", and that isn't the case. Of course, I do see them, but I'm trying to stress that teachers don't roll up at five to nine on a morning, knock off at 3 o'clock and spend their holidays watching Daytime TV. What I'm trying to point out is that teachers deserve more RECOGNITION for what they do. Even with all I've said, I don't necessarily think that doesn't have to come in the form of money. My life is perfectly comfortable, and we manage just fine, so most teachers probably don't NEED a 4% increase. And it's true, that although I have experience of the difficulties of teaching, I'm sure there are a lot of other hugely difficult careers out there who could also argue their case for a pay increase. But it is an unrewarding lifestyle - I went to drop something off to my parents at School a couple of weeks ago, and a lot the kids at the school were just rude, inconsiderate, and completely different characters to when I was educated at the same school (and I'm only 19!!) Teaching is a different profession to what it ever has been before, and full of difficulties even with day to day stuff. I know my parents would rather get out of their profession as soon as possible, and have less money, than put up with another year of the ungrateful little sod's they have to deal with every day. As soon as I've finished my degree next year, I know it'll be a matter of months before both of their resignation letters are on the desk - and that's nothing to do with money. It's to do with the attitudes of the kids, the parents and the public towards their profession, and that's what needs to change. But it won't, so I guess on the other hands, who can blame them for seeking compensation in money, because they sure as hell ain't gonna get it in respect!!

 

So I guess, no, they shouldn't have an increase, as there are probably difficult professions out there that deserve it just as much, and if you give it to one, you have no reason not to give it to the next. But, if it is given to them, I hope it's because all of the teachers I know work bloody hard.

 

As someone who is about to embark on thie PGCE later this year, I absolutely thank you for these words mate, I have mates who are teachers, and despite all the horror stories they tell me, I still wanna do it (I must be not right in the head eh....? LOL), because, fukk it, it's a profession that's actually worth something to society.....

 

Teachers are one of the MANY people that this Govt dumps on on a regular basis... I believe in workers' rights. ALL workers' rights (and that includes you as well Rob ;) ....)

 

im still against strike action though....

What other recourse other than the withdrawal of their labour does the ordinary worker have though Rob...? The Govt doesn't respond to reason or peaceful demos does it...? If it did, we'd've never invaded Iraq with the sodding Yanks.....

 

I'm totally against it. Teachers only work 7 hours a day anyway and have 13 weeks a year off. What other profession or job has so many weeks a year off? Answer: None.

7hrs a day isnt completely true. ive stayed behind school later than 5:30pm and teachers are still there. Most teachers in my school even come in on saturdays for revision for yrs11/12/13

As someone who is about to embark on thie PGCE later this year, I absolutely thank you for these words mate, I have mates who are teachers, and despite all the horror stories they tell me, I still wanna do it (I must be not right in the head eh....? LOL), because, fukk it, it's a profession that's actually worth something to society.....

 

Teachers are one of the MANY people that this Govt dumps on on a regular basis... I believe in workers' rights. ALL workers' rights (and that includes you as well Rob ;) ....)

 

You're more than welcome, and may I take this opportunity to say that, yes, I think you're insane, but good luck with the PGCE and all that comes after it - I'm sure you'll do brilliantly, Scott.

Teaching has changed radically in the last 10 years, I became a teacher because I want to teach children, I am rarely afforded that luxury.

I tick boxes, jump through hoops and provide paperwork that would make your eyes water - paperwork that does not add anything to a child's education.

 

Spot on.. I think it's very telling that you say this all this seemed to begin with "Nu Labor"... This was the Govt who claimed "Education. Education. Education"... Sounds more like "Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy. Bureaucracy".... I've got mates who are teachers, they say exactly the same thing you do...

 

As for that moron who says that teachers get 13 weeks off per year..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh dear..... They just really dont know what the fukk they're talking about. My friends are lucky if they get 3 or 4 weeks off a year, and they ALWAYS end up having to do the sodding paperwork in their OWN time at home on weekends..... <_<

 

As someone who is about to embark on thie PGCE later this year, I absolutely thank you for these words mate, I have mates who are teachers, and despite all the horror stories they tell me, I still wanna do it (I must be not right in the head eh....? LOL), because, fukk it, it's a profession that's actually worth something to society.....

 

 

Good luck with that - my PGCE year was the hardest of my life - not an easy way to qualify as a teacher but worth it in the end.

 

Last comment on this - to the person who commented on the average teacher's wage - that sum will not be for a recently qualified teacher - but for one who has reached the top of the pay scale and then taken on extra responsibilities and as ongoing evidence of working at a higher level. (or working in London where the streets are paved with gold)

 

BUT

 

I have a degree.

I have a Post Graduate Certificate in Education

I have an advanced diploma in Maths Education.

I have a Masters Degree in Education

I am currently studying and researching with UCLAN into Child Internet Safety (god wouldn't JBT have loved that :rofl:)

I work on an average week 7.30am to 5.30pm - although Govenor meeting / management meeting often extend this.

I have many years teaching experience, you name it I have dealt with it.

oh and I happen to be bloody good at my job

 

Why the hell should I not earn a decent wage???

 

"A teacher takes the child by the hand - and the parent by the heart"

The whole education system needs reforming and teachers pay is one area that needs addressing but there needs to be radical changes to education, both to cut out centralised government interference but also change the whole outlook on education

 

1) Kids should be allowed to leave school at 14 provided they have a college place to learn a trade, reduces class sizes and the chance of disruptive kids who don't want to be there distracting those that want to learn

 

2) Priority in terms of top schools should go to kids of the indigenous population, it is not fair that a kid of a British taxpayer can not go to a school of their choice because an asylum seeker or polish kid has taken that place

 

3) The school day for kids should be increased from what it is now to 5pm, education should be about preparing kids for the world of work and very few work places have 9am-3.15pm

 

4) There should be at least 1 hr or PE or sport for every kid per day, physical fitness is vital given that the internet and PS3 rules so many young lives

 

5) The whole syllabus should change, business studies, economics should be compulsary and there should be compulsary lessons in money management, these things are far more important in the home and work place than Anne Boleyn and the great fire of London :manson:

 

6) ALL schools should be taken out of local authority control and each school should become a self governing trust with a chief executive appointed to manage the school finances, government grants be given to families to buy a school place but each school allowed to raise its own money on top as it sees fit, advertising in schools, product placement, direct sponsorship of schools by private companies in return for naming rights to the school so say St John's School becomes the Microsoft Academy or the O2 Academy or whatever

 

While all this stuff is greatly off topic I believe that radical reforms of schools and education would bring extra funds to schools, lower class sizes and more money for teachers, schools should be taken out of government and local authority control

Good luck with that - my PGCE year was the hardest of my life - not an easy way to qualify as a teacher but worth it in the end.

 

Last comment on this - to the person who commented on the average teacher's wage - that sum will not be for a recently qualified teacher - but for one who has reached the top of the pay scale and then taken on extra responsibilities and as ongoing evidence of working at a higher level. (or working in London where the streets are paved with gold)

 

BUT

 

I have a degree.

I have a Post Graduate Certificate in Education

I have an advanced diploma in Maths Education.

I have a Masters Degree in Education

I am currently studying and researching with UCLAN into Child Internet Safety (god wouldn't JBT have loved that :rofl:)

I work on an average week 7.30am to 5.30pm - although Govenor meeting / management meeting often extend this.

I have many years teaching experience, you name it I have dealt with it.

oh and I happen to be bloody good at my job

 

Why the hell should I not earn a decent wage???

 

"A teacher takes the child by the hand - and the parent by the heart"

 

I might be asking you for advice at some point then.... :lol:

 

And absolutely, you do have a right to earn a decent wage...

 

6) ALL schools should be taken out of local authority control and each school should become a self governing trust with a chief executive appointed to manage the school finances, government grants be given to families to buy a school place but each school allowed to raise its own money on top as it sees fit, advertising in schools, product placement, direct sponsorship of schools by private companies in return for naming rights to the school so say St John's School becomes the Microsoft Academy or the O2 Academy or whatever

 

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all mate... This would mean that, potentially, you'll have an increased risk of kids' heads being filled with nonsensical, baseless rubbish such as "Creationism" being part of the Syllabus....

 

6) ALL schools should be taken out of local authority control and each school should become a self governing trust with a chief executive appointed to manage the school finances, government grants be given to families to buy a school place but each school allowed to raise its own money on top as it sees fit, advertising in schools, product placement, direct sponsorship of schools by private companies in return for naming rights to the school so say St John's School becomes the Microsoft Academy or the O2 Academy or whatever

I suppose you'd agree with the BNP or the Catholic Church paying schools in order to influence History/RS lessons then?

I suppose you'd agree with the BNP or the Catholic Church paying schools in order to influence History/RS lessons then?

 

No I think the teaching of religion in schools should be banned

 

if parents want to teach their kids religion then great but it doesn't belong in schools, I would scrap all faith schools too be it christian, muslim, jewish, catholic schools or whatever, religion to me doesn't belong in schools

Edited May 7, 200817 yr by Tim Barnes

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all mate... This would mean that, potentially, you'll have an increased risk of kids' heads being filled with nonsensical, baseless rubbish such as "Creationism" being part of the Syllabus....

 

Nah there would be a fixed centralised national curriculum that would have to be followed by all schools but it would be heavily revised with scrapping of irrelevant subjects to the world of work and replaced with things that would be far more relevant to real life

 

Money management, business studies, german, japanese or mandarin as they are the biggest business languages after English, economics, childcare those kinda things should be compulsary in schools for all and scrap $h!t like RE

Nah there would be a fixed centralised national curriculum that would have to be followed by all schools but it would be heavily revised with scrapping of irrelevant subjects to the world of work and replaced with things that would be far more relevant to real life

 

Money management, business studies, german, japanese or mandarin

 

They speak CANTONESE in Hong Kong though mate..... :lol:

 

I agree with Andrewy and ICR, and i'm a pupil

Edited May 8, 200817 yr by Harve

Teachers are completely justified in their strike action. They get paid from 9:10-3:20 (primary school) and yet the teacher I know get to school at about 8 and leave about 6, during report time or of there's been exams or tests later than that sometimes. For people to suggest that teachers start at 9am is ridiculous to the extreme.

Even with a teacher off, I'd continue studies elsewhere. Education is v. important.