More than 20 years after corporal punishment was banned in state schools, many teachers said it was acceptable to hit children "in extreme cases".

The majority of those backing the cane said it was needed to crackdown on bad behaviour in British schools.

 

It follows a Government-backed study last year which found many parents believed discipline had deteriorated since the cane was abolished.

 

In the latest poll, 20.3 per cent of teachers said it should be reintroduced.

One supply teacher told researchers: "Children's behaviour is now absolutely outrageous in the majority of schools. I am a supply teacher, so I see very many schools and there are no sanctions. There are too many anger management people and their ilk who give children the idea that it is their right to flounce out of lessons for time out because they have problems with their temper. They should be caned instead."

 

And a primary teacher, said: "There is justification, or an argument, for bringing back corporal punishment, if only as a deterrent. I believe some children just don't respond to the current sanctions."

 

The Times Educational Supplement surveyed 6,162 teachers.

Support for a return to corporal punishment was strongest among secondary teachers, with 22 per cent backing the idea compared with 16 per cent of those in primary schools.

 

But support was lower among senior staff - head teachers and deputies - with just 12 per cent supported the caning of pupils.

 

The cane was abolished in state schools in 1987 and 1998 in the fee-paying sector.

John Dunford, of the Association of School and College Leaders, said: "Thankfully, corporal punishment is no longer on the agenda, except in the most uncivilised countries. I am sure that this barbaric punishment has disappeared forever."

 

A spokesman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families said: "Violence against children is clearly unacceptable and illegal."

 

Source: Sunday Telegraph

 

Should corporal punishment be brought back in our secondary schools?

Yes, in extreme cases where the pupil obviously has no respect at all for the teacher and constantly disrupts lessons. It's just hypocritical to use it for other things though, such as bullying, IMO.

What a ridiculously misleading headline. The story says that 20% of teachers support the return of corporal punishment, otherwise known as legalised assault. That means that 80% of teachers don't support it.

Well if they want this brought this in then assualt laws would have to be relaxed and so if I had a kid and some failed scientist or whatever can only think of violence to solve their classroom problems then I'll come and punch them in the face. :)

if I had a kid and some failed scientist or whatever can only think of violence to solve their classroom problems then I'll come and punch them in the face. :)

 

And this is exactly the sort of attitudes of parents which has led to a total disrespect of teachers and a total breakdown of discipline in classrooms... When I was a kid, my parents absolutely were behind my teachers 100%, and they told me that I should respect them. Now, thanks to a combination of 80s Thatcherism which devalued the professionalism of teachers, Chav "culture" and middle-class do-gooders which has eroded the rights of teachers to control and discipline kids WHERE NECESSARY, schools have become almost like theatres of urban fukkin' warfare, where teachers are beaten up, sexually harrassed (which happened to a female friend of mine) and assaulted and in extreme cases (such as Philip Lawrence) even killed....

 

Your apparent total lack of respect for teachers is the whole problem 'Wicky.... You should be ashamed of yourself, grow up mate, god forbid you ever have kids with an attitude like that....

 

I'm 100% with the 20% that wants to bring back Corporal Punishment, children under 16 should've never, EVER been given "rights" on a par with adults, they are not adults, they have neither the emotional capacity nor the sense of discipline that most adults do to be able to handle the responsibilities (yeah, you see, this word "responsibility", kind of goes hand in hand with actually having rights. Something most of these little chav fukkers have no bloody concept of... <_< ) of having such adult-level human rights.... Teachers and schools act in what is known as "Loco Parentis" (quite literally "in the place of parents"), this is the LAW of the land, which means they should be given the same level of control and discipline as parents....

 

I also believe that parents should have the right to smack kids where necessary... Never did me any harm......

the return of corporal punishment, otherwise known as legalised assault.

 

What absolute cr@p mate... Most of the time, you're an incredibly intelligent poster, but on this issue, you've lost it.. BIG TIME.... Corporal Punishment is CLEARLY a necessary sanction in our schools... In the decades since Corporal Punishment was done away with, teachers have found it more and more difficult to deal with disruptive pupils, and I would argue that it has led to a growing lack of respect in our culture generally, of course there are other factors - Thatcherism, Chav culture, Middle-Class PC do-gooders.... Because now kids have these "rights" (with apparently none of the responsibilities which should come with these rights...), there is pretty much nothing a teacher or a school can do to effectively deal with disruptive, violent pupils.... When I was at school, we respected the teacher, even if we disagreed with some of their findings, we knew that there was a line you didn't cross... Far too many kids today dont even see that line...

 

What a ridiculously misleading headline. The story says that 20% of teachers support the return of corporal punishment, otherwise known as legalised assault. That means that 80% of teachers don't support it.

 

EXACTLY!

 

i dont agree, although its high time teachers rights were re-instated. the pc brigade have ham-strung teachers, children need boundaries, they need guidance and teachers should be able to meter out appropriate discipline. but caning isnt the answer.

What absolute cr@p mate... Most of the time, you're an incredibly intelligent poster, but on this issue, you've lost it.. BIG TIME.... Corporal Punishment is CLEARLY a necessary sanction in our schools... In the decades since Corporal Punishment was done away with, teachers have found it more and more difficult to deal with disruptive pupils, and I would argue that it has led to a growing lack of respect in our culture generally, of course there are other factors - Thatcherism, Chav culture, Middle-Class PC do-gooders.... Because now kids have these "rights" (with apparently none of the responsibilities which should come with these rights...), there is pretty much nothing a teacher or a school can do to effectively deal with disruptive, violent pupils.... When I was at school, we respected the teacher, even if we disagreed with some of their findings, we knew that there was a line you didn't cross... Far too many kids today dont even see that line...

So why is it that when I was in Sweden recently (where all physical punishment of children has been illegal for many years) the streets were not full of children running riot? I cannot accept that you can teach a child that violence is wrong by hitting them.

i would no way be able to respect someone who hits me with a stick.....no way should it be brought back -_-

I don't think I could ever agree with corporal punishment, but I do think it should be MUCH easier for schools to expel kids. Something does need to be done to restore respect for teachers. I went to one of the best schools in this area, but even there, by the time I was 14/15/16, VERY few teachers had decent control of us. After what my generation has seen teachers have to put up with, I can't see many of us opting to become teachers.

Obviously, it's not ideal to chuck young people out into the world without a proper education, but a lot of these gob$h!tes aren't learning anything anyway, and are additionally making others' lives hell (teachers and students) so there's little point in them being there. So, while I don't think I could condone hitting these people, I do think they should expect to get kicked out if they can't atleast behave decently and show some basic respect.

Edited October 6, 200816 yr by Danny

So why is it that when I was in Sweden recently (where all physical punishment of children has been illegal for many years) the streets were not full of children running riot? I cannot accept that you can teach a child that violence is wrong by hitting them.

 

Scandinavia didn't have to suffer the Thatcher years as we did, they didn't get pushed the lie of "there's no such thing as society", Sweden believes in a Social Democracy where the actual person is more valued, and has remained pretty untouched by "Chav Culture" which seems a uniquely BRITISH phenomenon... Swedish teachers never saw their profession or their professionalism become devalued or disrespected as it has in UK...

 

I mean, no disrespect mate, but exactly what is YOUR answer to this very huge and fundamental problem..? I would say that at least in the short-term, Corporal Punishment has to be reintroduced to get us back to where we were before the rot set in...

 

Completely overhauling the National Curriculum, stopping the "dumbing down" culture which clearly exists in schools and scrapping these totally worthless "League Tables" I think would also be a positive step....

Scandinavia didn't have to suffer the Thatcher years as we did, they didn't get pushed the lie of "there's no such thing as society", Sweden believes in a Social Democracy where the actual person is more valued, and has remained pretty untouched by "Chav Culture" which seems a uniquely BRITISH phenomenon... Swedish teachers never saw their profession or their professionalism become devalued or disrespected as it has in UK...

 

I mean, no disrespect mate, but exactly what is YOUR answer to this very huge and fundamental problem..? I would say that at least in the short-term, Corporal Punishment has to be reintroduced to get us back to where we were before the rot set in...

 

Completely overhauling the National Curriculum, stopping the "dumbing down" culture which clearly exists in schools and scrapping these totally worthless "League Tables" I think would also be a positive step....

You won't be surprised to hear that I agree with you about that awful woman whose name I can't bring myself to type. I also agree with you about the school league tables which only encourage schools to teach to the test rather than teaching children to think for themselves.

 

However, I still cannot accept that corporal punshment is the answer. That doesn't mean I have an easy answer - I don't. It's obviously pointless to say "I wouldn't start from here". I just cannot see how a teacher standing 6' 1" can get an 11-year-old at 4' 1" to respect him by using violence.

I just cannot see how a teacher standing 6' 1" can get an 11-year-old at 4' 1" to respect him by using violence.

 

I dont believe that teachers should just start caning willy nilly, they would have to justify the use of such a sanction to the Headmaster, and the Headmaster would have final say whether using such a sanction was appropriate... The BIG problem comes when schools boards of Governors and parents start to interfere with the decisions of teachers and Headmasters, often expulsion and suspension orders get overturned through this interference, despite the Headmaster's or teachers' objections, this does NOTHING to teach the offending kid that their actions are wrong and should have consequences....

 

 

 

But surely it should be a deterent, only used when the pupil goes too far. At the moment there is no deterent, and kids run amok. If you knew that if you behaved badly you would get the cane or whatever, you might not behave in a bad way.

I dont believe that teachers should just start caning willy nilly, they would have to justify the use of such a sanction to the Headmaster, and the Headmaster would have final say whether using such a sanction was appropriate... The BIG problem comes when schools boards of Governors and parents start to interfere with the decisions of teachers and Headmasters, often expulsion and suspension orders get overturned through this interference, despite the Headmaster's or teachers' objections, this does NOTHING to teach the offending kid that their actions are wrong and should have consequences....

But someone convicted in court has the right to seek an appeal. Why shouldn't a child, convicted under a system which requires a much lower level of proof, also have a right (through their parents) to appeal against a decision which could have a major effect on their future?

But someone convicted in court has the right to seek an appeal. Why shouldn't a child, convicted under a system which requires a much lower level of proof, also have a right (through their parents) to appeal against a decision which could have a major effect on their future?

 

But we're not talking about adult courts here mate... Expulsions and suspensions are again, not done for only one offence, they happen after repeated actions on the part of the pupil, where other steps such as detention or punishment home exercises fail to work. When a pupil is repeatedly causing disruption, repeatedly defying the authority of teachers, repeatedly bullying and intimidating other pupils (and even teachers themselves..).. Being liberal minded is all well and good mate, but we're not talking about rational adults here who have far more cognitive reasoning capabilities, we are talking about children who are psychologically and emotionally immature and incapable of recognising that their actions affect others... In short - kids are like dogs, they act on their own Id, a kid is all "me me me", they have no developed sense of Ego or Superego (to use Freudian terms), you dont let a dog sh!t on your carpet, and you dont give it an appeals procedure..... Sorry to be blunt, but you're dead wrong on this topic mate, you cannot apply rational adult procedures in the same way to children, because they act irrationally... And quite frankly, there are way too many parents out there who overindulge their offspring, refuse to see that their little "darlings" are in fact little b/astards, to put it bluntly.... Kids can also act the angel with their parents and then as soon as they get to school, start acting up...

 

But hey, dont take my word for it, ask any teacher out there. I can put you in touch with a few friends of mine who have more than enough experience of exactly what I'm talking about...

But we're not talking about adult courts here mate... Expulsions and suspensions are again, not done for only one offence, they happen after repeated actions on the part of the pupil, where other steps such as detention or punishment home exercises fail to work. When a pupil is repeatedly causing disruption, repeatedly defying the authority of teachers, repeatedly bullying and intimidating other pupils (and even teachers themselves..).. Being liberal minded is all well and good mate, but we're not talking about rational adults here who have far more cognitive reasoning capabilities, we are talking about children who are psychologically and emotionally immature and incapable of recognising that their actions affect others... In short - kids are like dogs, they act on their own Id, a kid is all "me me me", they have no developed sense of Ego or Superego (to use Freudian terms), you dont let a dog sh!t on your carpet, and you dont give it an appeals procedure..... Sorry to be blunt, but you're dead wrong on this topic mate, you cannot apply rational adult procedures in the same way to children, because they act irrationally... And quite frankly, there are way too many parents out there who overindulge their offspring, refuse to see that their little "darlings" are in fact little b/astards, to put it bluntly.... Kids can also act the angel with their parents and then as soon as they get to school, start acting up...

 

But hey, dont take my word for it, ask any teacher out there. I can put you in touch with a few friends of mine who have more than enough experience of exactly what I'm talking about...

 

totally disagree...you cant liken a child to a dog! :lol:

 

the repete offenders you cite are the very ones who caning wouldnt effect. they are double hard buggers who can take a beating. there WAS corporal punishment when i was at school, repete offenders were repetedly caned... it did them no good nor did it change the kids behaviour.

 

totally disagree...you cant liken a child to a dog! :lol:

 

the repete offenders you cite are the very ones who caning wouldnt effect. they are double hard buggers who can take a beating. there WAS corporal punishment when i was at school, repete offenders were repetedly caned... it did them no good nor did it change the kids behaviour.

 

I was thinking more of expulsion in those cases where caning or other methods wouldn't work.. The "double hard buggers" you just have to write-off and forget about, before they become a problem for the other kids.... In the past you used to have places or special schools where you could send these buggers.... But of course, we cant do that now can we...?

 

And I disagree, young kids are a lot like dogs, in the sense that they act on their own Id (pleasure principle) and they'll totally take the p"ss if you over-indulge them and have no control, and that they need to be directed and disciplined in how to behave appropriately... How is it any different...? Barbara Woodhouse would probably have made a good Nanny.... :lol: :lol:

 

I was thinking more of expulsion in those cases where caning or other methods wouldn't work.. The "double hard buggers" you just have to write-off and forget about, before they become a problem for the other kids.... In the past you used to have places or special schools where you could send these buggers.... But of course, we cant do that now can we...?

 

And I disagree, young kids are a lot like dogs, in the sense that they act on their own Id (pleasure principle) and they'll totally take the p"ss if you over-indulge them and have no control, and that they need to be directed and disciplined in how to behave appropriately... How is it any different...? Barbara Woodhouse would probably have made a good Nanny.... :lol: :lol:

Please don't take offence to this. But do you remember being a child? I doubt you had any problems that really needed a cane, and neither do i. And i certainly don't think i or most other kids are likes dogs, though i see your point.

 

In some schools there is a problem that really shouldn't be a problem. There is a dilemma over whether schools should expel pupils because it ruins their reputation by accepting and making it open that there are problem kids.

I'm against it (obviously :lol:), but in extreme cases I guess it could be considered. If it was acceptable all them years ago, then why should it not be now?...