Please don't take offence to this. But do you remember being a child? I doubt you had any problems that really needed a cane,

 

No offence taken, and yeah I DO remember being a kid... I'll tell you what I remember...

 

I remember being a bit of a cheeky sod at times (I was certainly no angel), but I also remember knowing that there was a line you didn't cross

I remember there being a thing called consequences for my actions

I remember being taught discipline, respect and resposibility from my parents and this was reinforced by my school

I remember actually being punished for doing stupid or bad things. I remember when "being sent to your room" actually was a punishment - No PSPs, Internet, Portable telly with DVD players, PCs or X-Boxes in my room in MY day...LOL

 

Now, I'll tell you what I DONT remember

 

I dont remember kids violently assaulting, intimidating, harrassing or (god forbid) stabbing their teachers

I dont remember chavvy parents punching out their kids teachers, calling them "c/unts", etc for doing their bloody job and actually disciplining their feral offspring

I dont remember rampant, seemingly uncontrollable youth knife crime

I dont remember kids carrying knives to school

I dont remember a society where the young have such a fundamental lack of respect for parents, teachers, etc

I dont remember such a lack of common sense where we give kids all these "rights" and then dont actually enforce responsibilities....

 

Hope this answers your question... :)

 

 

Now, I'll tell you what I DONT remember

 

I dont remember kids violently assaulting, intimidating, harrassing or (god forbid) stabbing their teachers

I dont remember chavvy parents punching out their kids teachers, calling them "c/unts", etc for doing their bloody job and actually disciplining their feral offspring

I dont remember rampant, seemingly uncontrollable youth knife crime

I dont remember kids carrying knives to school

I dont remember a society where the young have such a fundamental lack of respect for parents, teachers, etc

I dont remember such a lack of common sense where we give kids all these "rights" and then dont actually enforce responsibilities....

OK, but i still doubt the cane will sort out the type of kids you described there. How would they react? What if the teachers aren't "competant" enough to do it without making their life even worse? Anyway i don't think the first 5 are a problem at all at my school...

I must fall within the 80% here

 

If a teacher cannot control and discipline the children in their care without violence they have no right to be in a classroom.

I would consider myself a serious failure as a teacher if I needed to hurt the children in my care to get them to do as I say.

 

I know I 'only' teach primary school, but I last year walked through the local secondary school where one of my ex- "double hard bast*rds" kids (taught him in Y6 - now Y11) stopped and spoke politely and respectfully to me, much to the amazement of the deputy head who was with me. This kid had given me one of the hardest years of my teaching career but he will NEVER know that. You have to earn respect, and that is not easy. But even these kids that someone here advocated giving up on deserve better.

 

And some teachers don't know how to cope - they aren't taught how - if indeed you can be taught.

Take my sons English teacher - she teaches Y11 - she is newly qualified so 24 at most - pretty, and when I met her was wearing 4" heels and a low cut tight dress. And she lets her class call her by her first name! 5 weeks into term and she has NO control of her class. No shock there!

 

I received the cane and leather strap a number of times at school, didn't make me 'respect' the person giving it me - and to be honest can't remember why I got it - only that I did!!!

 

Parents are the real issue here, as has been said they do not support the teachers and lead their kids to believe in their rights to do whatever they want!

This said I have taught a number of children from homes like this and kids soon learn there are one set of rules in school and another at home.

 

 

(oh and as Mrs Thatcher was 'deposed' 18 years ago I doubt many of today's school population have even heard of her - let alone decided to misbehave as a reaction to her!!)

OK, but i still doubt the cane will sort out the type of kids you described there. How would they react? What if the teachers aren't "competant" enough to do it without making their life even worse? Anyway i don't think the first 5 are a problem at all at my school...

 

EXPELLING the little b/astards and keeping them expelled sure would though. Far too many times expulsion and suspension orders are overturned, and the kids just see it as a joke... And the cane could be used as an effective sanction to keep the rest in line.... I'm still old enough to remember the belt in Primary school.... And, sorry, but it DID work as a sanction on the vast majority, with expulsion there to get rid of the more persistent offenders... There were very, very few kids that 'acted up'.... Even in Secondary school when the belt was done away with, we still had that sense of dread of being sent to the Headmaster's (or in my school's case, the Rector...) study.....

No offence taken, and yeah I DO remember being a kid... I'll tell you what I remember...

 

I remember being a bit of a cheeky sod at times (I was certainly no angel), but I also remember knowing that there was a line you didn't cross

I remember there being a thing called consequences for my actions

I remember being taught discipline, respect and resposibility from my parents and this was reinforced by my school

I remember actually being punished for doing stupid or bad things. I remember when "being sent to your room" actually was a punishment - No PSPs, Internet, Portable telly with DVD players, PCs or X-Boxes in my room in MY day...LOL

 

Now, I'll tell you what I DONT remember

 

I dont remember kids violently assaulting, intimidating, harrassing or (god forbid) stabbing their teachers

I dont remember chavvy parents punching out their kids teachers, calling them "c/unts", etc for doing their bloody job and actually disciplining their feral offspring

I dont remember rampant, seemingly uncontrollable youth knife crime

I dont remember kids carrying knives to school

I dont remember a society where the young have such a fundamental lack of respect for parents, teachers, etc

I dont remember such a lack of common sense where we give kids all these "rights" and then dont actually enforce responsibilities....

 

Hope this answers your question... :)

 

fully agree!! :cheer:

(oh and as Mrs Thatcher was 'deposed' 18 years ago I doubt many of today's school population have even heard of her - let alone decided to misbehave as a reaction to her!!)

I agree with just about everything you said but your final comment misses the point. You don't need to have heard of that dreadful woman to be affected by her attitude. She encouraged the "I want it and I wnat it now" attitude that made it much harder for parents to say "No".

 

That doesn't mean that I think the solution is physical punishment. I think my earlier comments make that clear.

I agree with just about everything you said but your final comment misses the point. You don't need to have heard of that dreadful woman to be affected by her attitude. She encouraged the "I want it and I wnat it now" attitude that made it much harder for parents to say "No".

 

That doesn't mean that I think the solution is physical punishment. I think my earlier comments make that clear.

I wasn't around in thatchers time but i fail to see how one person, even as prime minister can change the attitudes of an entire nation/ group of people in it.

I wasn't around in thatchers time but i fail to see how one person, even as prime minister can change the attitudes of an entire nation/ group of people in it.

Oh but she did, she did. She had a large section of the press on her side (the Hate-Mail, the Daily Distress and the Sun in particular).

I must fall within the 80% here

 

If a teacher cannot control and discipline the children in their care without violence they have no right to be in a classroom.

I would consider myself a serious failure as a teacher if I needed to hurt the children in my care to get them to do as I say.

 

I know I 'only' teach primary school, but I last year walked through the local secondary school where one of my ex- "double hard bast*rds" kids (taught him in Y6 - now Y11) stopped and spoke politely and respectfully to me, much to the amazement of the deputy head who was with me. This kid had given me one of the hardest years of my teaching career but he will NEVER know that. You have to earn respect, and that is not easy. But even these kids that someone here advocated giving up on deserve better.

 

And some teachers don't know how to cope - they aren't taught how - if indeed you can be taught.

Take my sons English teacher - she teaches Y11 - she is newly qualified so 24 at most - pretty, and when I met her was wearing 4" heels and a low cut tight dress. And she lets her class call her by her first name! 5 weeks into term and she has NO control of her class. No shock there!

 

I received the cane and leather strap a number of times at school, didn't make me 'respect' the person giving it me - and to be honest can't remember why I got it - only that I did!!!

 

Parents are the real issue here, as has been said they do not support the teachers and lead their kids to believe in their rights to do whatever they want!

This said I have taught a number of children from homes like this and kids soon learn there are one set of rules in school and another at home.

(oh and as Mrs Thatcher was 'deposed' 18 years ago I doubt many of today's school population have even heard of her - let alone decided to misbehave as a reaction to her!!)

 

Completely agree with you.

 

As a teenager now, the idea of using canes in school just seems absolutely ridiculous. If you can't handle your class without violence, you are failing as a teacher. My school runs on a respect basis, teachers respect the students and we respect them. Not always easy, but teaching is not supposed to be a 'breeze'. You earn respect over time, using canes and the like is just the quick, easy, and barbaric way to do it. If there is ever a student out of line, teachers and heads sit down and talk with them, their parents, etc. No need for violence.

 

It'll be a sad day if schools resort to violence again to restore order. Isn't this the sort of mentality that leads to war, anyway? You can't reach an agreement with someone or reach them through words so you resort to violence?

I agree with just about everything you said but your final comment misses the point. You don't need to have heard of that dreadful woman to be affected by her attitude. She encouraged the "I want it and I wnat it now" attitude that made it much harder for parents to say "No".

 

 

I disagree, but each to his own.

I must fall within the 80% here

 

If a teacher cannot control and discipline the children in their care without violence they have no right to be in a classroom.

I would consider myself a serious failure as a teacher if I needed to hurt the children in my care to get them to do as I say.

 

I know I 'only' teach primary school, but I last year walked through the local secondary school where one of my ex- "double hard bast*rds" kids (taught him in Y6 - now Y11) stopped and spoke politely and respectfully to me, much to the amazement of the deputy head who was with me. This kid had given me one of the hardest years of my teaching career but he will NEVER know that. You have to earn respect, and that is not easy. But even these kids that someone here advocated giving up on deserve better.

 

And some teachers don't know how to cope - they aren't taught how - if indeed you can be taught.

Take my sons English teacher - she teaches Y11 - she is newly qualified so 24 at most - pretty, and when I met her was wearing 4" heels and a low cut tight dress. And she lets her class call her by her first name! 5 weeks into term and she has NO control of her class. No shock there!

 

I received the cane and leather strap a number of times at school, didn't make me 'respect' the person giving it me - and to be honest can't remember why I got it - only that I did!!!

 

Parents are the real issue here, as has been said they do not support the teachers and lead their kids to believe in their rights to do whatever they want!

This said I have taught a number of children from homes like this and kids soon learn there are one set of rules in school and another at home.

(oh and as Mrs Thatcher was 'deposed' 18 years ago I doubt many of today's school population have even heard of her - let alone decided to misbehave as a reaction to her!!)

Now I don't need to reply as our own resident teacher basically EXACTLY what I was trying to say! Especially the highlighted parts! Kids won't respect someone just because they're told to and using violence isn't going to say that they should infact it'll do the opposite and just hurt them! ICR herself has said that Kids need to have boundaries and if you are cross them then there are consequences but does getting smacked or getting slapped by a cane teach you that what you did was wrong? Well as far as I remember everytime my father decided to do that all I remember was that it hurt! I don't remember anything I ever did wrong! Meanwhile my mum did things like taking my computer games or radio away and not suprisingly I learned that there are things you shouldn't say or do! It's a shame that I can only name around four teachers I ever respected when I was at school and it's a big shame all my family members who are teachers and want to be teachers are all in Ireland :P I tried it first hand myself as part of a course and decided it wasn't for me!

 

Great post ICR and Scott and Rob have since mysteriously gone quiet because of it :P

You don't need to have heard of that dreadful woman to be affected by her attitude. She encouraged the "I want it and I wnat it now" attitude that made it much harder for parents to say "No".

 

Exactly... She inspired the Harry Enfield character "Loadsamoney", which was a very neat encapsulation of the whole rotten era; and it's not exactly a huge leap to put whole "chav culture" (Enfield's character is basically a forerunner of Chav) or "bling" thing at her door either.... "Greed is good", "Get rich or die trying"; same sh!t, different era....

 

Thatcher destroyed schools, destroyed the professionalism and high regard that teachers were held in generally in our society... Big surprise that this is where all the problems that exist now started to begin....

 

By denying these facts it seems like ICR is pathetically trying to justify her voting for the evil old b/itch..... :rolleyes:

As a teenager now, the idea of using canes in school just seems absolutely ridiculous. If you can't handle your class without violence, you are failing as a teacher. My school runs on a respect basis, teachers respect the students and we respect them. Not always easy, but teaching is not supposed to be a 'breeze'. You earn respect over time, using canes and the like is just the quick, easy, and barbaric way to do it. If there is ever a student out of line, teachers and heads sit down and talk with them, their parents, etc. No need for violence.

 

This is all very nice and liberal and all, and it may work well where you live, but unfortunately it assumes that everyone is as rational as you are.... Unfortunately, this is not the case.... This aint gonna work on the feral teens running in gangs and earning "respect" through happy slapping and carrying knives around, in fact, it'll be seen as a sign of weakness.... , these scum dont respond to a kind word..... It also assumes the parents are rational also, in a lot of cases they're aint, in fact in a lot of cases, they're worse than the kids..... Welcome to the world of Chav.... :rolleyes:

 

Great post ICR and Scott and Rob have since mysteriously gone quiet because of it :P

 

time constraints... :P

 

whilst i agree with most of icr's post , i agree with suedehead regarding thatcher. it WAS her policies that created the 'i want it and i want it NOW' attitude. the 'greed is good' thinking is no myth, it was accepted!

 

i dont agree with the 'staff and pupils are equal' philosophy though...thats bonkers and is as stupid as parents who also allow kids an 'equal say' (like asking them what they want for dinner instead of telling them what they are getting!). kids are kids, they are NOT equal to adults. adults have a role to play in educating and guiding their offspring. kids need direction, leadership, until they are old enough to start making decisions for themselves. (that isnt an arbitory age, it would vary from kid to kid depending on their development)

By denying these facts it seems like ICR is pathetically trying to justify her voting for the evil old b/itch..... :rolleyes:

 

excuse me?

 

I don't believe I have ever discussed my voting habits on here, and I don't believe I ever shall. I take exception to my opinions being called pathetic.

 

 

I also believe this topic is about whether teachers should be allowed to use corporal punishment or not.

It was under Thatcher that corporal punishment was finally abolished in state schools, so is the lack of the cane to be blamed for teachers' lack of discipline?

 

excuse me?

 

I don't believe I have ever discussed my voting habits on here, and I don't believe I ever shall. I take exception to my opinions being called pathetic.

I also believe this topic is about whether teachers should be allowed to use corporal punishment or not.

It was under Thatcher that corporal punishment was finally abolished in state schools, so is the lack of the cane to be blamed for teachers' lack of discipline?

 

tbh i thought 'wtf' too as i cant ever remember you admitting to voting for thatcher....

 

the people who have been running the education system ever since the 60's are the ones to blame for teachers being somewhat hamstrung. imho teachers should be IN CHARGE of their pupils, not equals.

tbh i thought 'wtf' too as i cant ever remember you admitting to voting for thatcher....

 

the people who have been running the education system ever since the 60's are the ones to blame for teachers being somewhat hamstrung. imho teachers should be IN CHARGE of their pupils, not equals.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that pupils and teachers should be considered as "equals". However, respect is a two-way thing and, in my opinion, using violence against someone is a strange way of trying to gain respect.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that pupils and teachers should be considered as "equals". However, respect is a two-way thing and, in my opinion, using violence against someone is a strange way of trying to gain respect.

 

im under the impression that the education bosses are directing staff in that way... you respect me and ill respect you sort of thing, this is bollox cos a kid is a fukkin kid and a teacher has knowlege and experience to impart to the inferior.

 

im in complete agreement that violence is not the way to discipline kids.

im in complete agreement that violence is not the way to discipline kids.

 

I take it this now means that you've done a complete U-Turn in your belief that parents should be able to smack their kids.... :rolleyes:

 

I'm sorry, but I dont call Corporal Punishment or parents disciplining by a well-placed smack or clip round the ear when necessary to control the little blighters where all else fails as being "violence" or "abuse", terms I feel which are inappropriate in this discussion..... "Violence" and "abuse" is something completely arbitrary and without valid reason or context.... Neither of which can be ascribed to smacking or CP, because these do have a valid reason and context..... CP would only ever be used as a last resort, and when other options are exhausted....

I take it this now means that you've done a complete U-Turn in your belief that parents should be able to smack their kids.... :rolleyes:

 

I'm sorry, but I dont call Corporal Punishment or parents disciplining by a well-placed smack or clip round the ear when necessary to control the little blighters where all else fails as being "violence" or "abuse", terms I feel which are inappropriate in this discussion..... "Violence" and "abuse" is something completely arbitrary and without valid reason or context.... Neither of which can be ascribed to smacking or CP, because these do have a valid reason and context..... CP would only ever be used as a last resort, and when other options are exhausted....

 

parents should by the time kids get to school age have already set the boundaries, parents do not 'smack' big children but small children.. a parent smacking as a last resort aint the same as a teacher using a weapon on a kid to hurt them. ive NEVER had to smack my kids, because i used the 3 warning rule . parents shouldnt just smack on the spur of the moment but give fair warning that if they carry on misbehaving they WILL get smacked. guess what... IT WORKS as my 3 always knew that they must stop.

 

does caning work on older kids?.... no.... if it did there would be no repete offenders who often get beaten at home and are hardend to pain.