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Heath Ledger fans 'want Joker retired'

Friday, February 13 2009, 23:38 GMT

 

By Mayer Nissim

 

 

Fans of late actor Heath Ledger have started a petition calling for the Joker to be retired from the Batman movies.

 

The producers of The Ultimate Joker website have argued that Ledger's BAFTA-winning portrayal of the supervillain was so perfect that no attempt should be made to replace him.

 

They said: "It's impossible to imagine, impossible to draw or dub much less repeat the performance.

 

"That's why efforts to find one should simply cease. The Joker must die now and forever.

 

"Now is the time for him to rest in peace as Ledger has ennobled the honourable villain."

 

They added that the "ultimate Joker" deserves the homage of having the character retired from future films.

 

Director Terry Gilliam recently described Ledger as a "genius" and the best actor of his generation.

 

Well do you agree or disagree? Should the Joker be retired out of future Batman films?

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No I disagree.

 

As much as I agree that Ledger was FAULTLESS in The Dark Knight, is it really fair to fans of the Batman films in general to have one of his most famed nemisis' to be retired? The Joker lived before Heath Ledger and I believe should live on after him. It's like saying if one of the actors that played James Bond was to die - they should just stop making the films. It's stupid. The Joker should live on, and i'm sure whoever is chosen will be more than aware of what exceptionally large shoes he has to fill and will make the effort to try and live up to that. No disrespect to Ledger, who as I said, was absolutely flawless in his performance as The Joker, but it's obscene to rule out such a pivotal character just because one actor played it exceptionally well and unfortunately died. Plus The Joker didn't die in The Dark Knight... Therefore it makes sense for him to return in a future film.

You know, it's things like this, the utter delusion of die-hard fans that, in a way, completely spoils what was a pretty good thing, they are, through their delusions, actually diminishing the actor's performance by placing FAR too much importance onto it.... Because now, even I'm beginning to think the whole thing with Heath as The Joker is becoming overhyped, and I thought Heath's performance was great.... Several comic book fans have expressed to me how utterly p!ssed off they are about hearing all about Heath and that it's all just hype, and they have said "people only think he's that good because he died....", and frankly, I can understand that in a lot of ways, this ridiculous campaign will just make things worse and p!ss off the comic book fans and Batman fans even more.....

 

At the end of the day, The Joker is a role, and has been played by several actors.... My own earliest memory of The Joker is Cesar Romero, and, as a kid, I thought he was great.... So, I guess when HE snuffed it, that means that neither Jack Nicholson nor Heath Ledger should have played The Joker then..... :rolleyes: The delusion of fans just really has no sense at all.... I really, really wish Heath's fans would just shut the fukk up tbh and stop spamming their bullsh!t all over the internet, like anyone other than Heath Ledger obsessives gives a damn what these idiots think..... :rolleyes:

 

They seem to forget that their idol was in some really cr@p films as well...... :lol: :lol: God, anyone ever sit through "The Sin Eater"???? or "Casanova"????? :puke2:

 

 

 

I see where you two above are coming from, but to be honest im actually more inclined to agree with this...

 

Ledger's performance was absolutley faultless, and it is just so obvious that any person taking over the role would attempt to live up to / have to be compared to Ledger by EVERYONE, the press, the fans etc.. and it's not really fair on that actor either tbh... apologies if you see this as a generalisation, but isnt that always the way these things go?

 

At the end of the day, The Joker is a role, and has been played by several actors.... My own earliest memory of The Joker is Cesar Romero, and, as a kid, I thought he was great.... So, I guess when HE snuffed it, that means that neither Jack Nicholson nor Heath Ledger should have played The Joker then..... :rolleyes: The delusion of fans just really has no sense at all.... I really, really wish Heath's fans would just shut the fukk up tbh and stop spamming their bullsh!t all over the internet, like anyone other than Heath Ledger obsessives gives a damn what these idiots think..... :rolleyes:

 

But they were later remakes of the Batman films, so it's quite different tbh. I just think it would be STRANGE to see Bale against someone else as the joker, who would without a doubt be constantly contrasted to Ledger...

Oh, and some people may give a dam what these "idiots" think, as they're entitled to an opinion just as you and i are....

Edited by James.

This is where its crosses the line. Heath Ledger, I completely agree, was absolutely superb as the Joker, one of the best acting I saw in the whole of last year. But, The Joker is part of the Batman film and it is unfair to lovers of the movie itself, not necessarily fans of the actors themselves. I dont think it is fair to axe one of the main characters from the movie, purely because one of the actors has died. I completely understand why fans of Heath may say this because of his superb acting in The Dark Knight, but I think it would be wrong to axe The Joker.
Ledger's performance was absolutley faultless, and it is just so obvious that any person taking over the role would attempt to live up to / have to be compared to Ledger by EVERYONE, the press, the fans etc.. and it's not really fair on that actor either tbh... apologies if you see this as a generalisation, but isnt that always the way these things go?

But they were later remakes of the Batman films, so it's quite different tbh. I just think it would be STRANGE to see Bale against someone else as the joker, who would without a doubt be constantly contrasted to Ledger...

 

Oh, and some people may give a dam what these "idiots" think, as they're entitled to an opinion just as you and i are....

 

They are idiots.... And if they actually sat back and thought about it, they would realise that their ridiculous obsessions are actually diminishing the film itself..... The Dark Knight is a hell of a lot more than being just about ONE actor's performance (regardless of how good it is...), it has subtleties within the plot and within the wider themes than can be totally missed if one becomes too bogged down in just one element of the plot, it's a bit like going to the Sistine Chapel and only looking at one part of the ceiling, or going to the Louvre and only looking at one part of Da Vinci's "Last Supper"... What the film is REALLY about is the corruption of Harvey Dent (it is HE, and not The Joker that is the most important character and where the ultimate meaning of the film itself is situated..), and how anybody, no matter how great or good can be corrupted and brought down to the basest, darkest levels of human nature... THAT is what the film's about, NOT just about The Joker going around doing some witty one-liners and being a complete psychotic loon, that is just ONE ELEMENT to the film, one part of the overall text of the film; but these fukkin' Heath obsessives only see Heath/The Joker. Their tunnel vision and ignorance of the film's overall themes is frankly breathtaking and it totally p!sses me off to the point that I wished Ledger had never even gotten that BAFTA, then perhaps all this utter silliness regarding petitions and whatnot would never have happened.... God forbid he wins the fukkin' Oscar, there'll be no stopping these fukkin' morons..... <_<

 

So, I'm hoping to christ that Phillip Seymore Hoffman can pick up the Oscar......

 

And, frankly, I can name one actor just now off the top of my head who could easily do as good a job as Ledger - Robert Downey Jr...... :rolleyes:

It's not for them to decide...
It's not for them to decide...

 

Too right it's not.... If anything, it's for the fans of the Batman comics to decide, and there is absolutely none of them who would want to see The Joker "retired" either from the comics or from the screen, The Joker as a character and as a concept is a hell of a lot bigger than what particular actor happens to be playing him at the time, as Ledger eclipsed Nicholson's performance, which itself eclipsed Romero's performance, someone will come along to better or at least equal Ledger.....

 

And the irony is, I highly doubt Ledger himself would particularly want to see The Joker mothballed....

 

Just to reiterate, I have absolutely no problems with Ledger, or his performance (which was brilliant....), my problem is with these so-called "fans" who need a serious reality check and need to watch the film again to actually understand that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, no matter how good one particular 'part' may have been.... The Dark Knight was one of my top 5 favourite films of 2008, and I feel the best film made out of a comic book ever, so I dont like these "fans" coming along and cheapening it by obsessing over one particular element of the film and giving it far more weight than it actually merits.....

Nobody should play The Joker again whilst Bale is still Batman, or for the foreseeable future. I don't say that because it would be disrespectful to Heath or anything - that's rubbish - but because there is simply NO need to bring him back any time soon. He was just played to perfection, rest the bloody character. Think of a new villain. Having him back would be so boring and would almost certainly not live up to expectations.

Nobody should play The Joker again whilst Bale is still Batman, or for the foreseeable future. I don't say that because it would be disrespectful to Heath or anything - that's rubbish - but because there is simply NO need to bring him back any time soon. He was just played to perfection, rest the bloody character. Think of a new villain. Having him back would be so boring and would almost certainly not live up to expectations.

 

I agree with this. But for the Joker to be retired like his fans want is f***ing retarded.

I disagree, how can you take out the Joker, he is part of the Batman franchise all the way back to the TV series with Cesar Romario. If another actor died that was going to play the Riddler in the next movie, there be another campaign to drop the Riddler.

The Joker to be retired is such a stupid ideal. He's an iconic character. Like Venom in Spiderman or Lex Luthor in Superman - these are the protagonists' main enemies. I don't follow comic books at all, but I can normally name a comic book character's main foe (and The Joker is Batman's).

 

Heath Ledger was excellent in The Dark Knight. Absolutely amazing. I hope he wins the Oscar because his performance really was sublime and physcotic. Every actor/artist/band/whatever has tens of crazy fans, who I think speak before they engage their brains. Heath Ledger is not The Joker.

 

I'm pretty sure had Ledger not died they'd have brought The Joker back in the next film at some point, but they're not going to do that at all now. It would be crazy to as it is far too soon. But as long as Nolan is in charge of the Batman films I don't think he'll want The Joker brought back. Do they really need to at the moment anyway? The next Batman will have tons of hype for it purely because of how well the last one did at the box office.

Should Christopher Nolan make another Batman film, especially with Christian Bale, I think it might be unwise to include the Joker with a new actor (though not for any reason other than inevitable and endless Ledger caparisons). But when another creative team takes on the Batman series, which will surely happen sometime in the future, it would be fine to pick a new Joker! Hell, maybe the next generation will want another campy, cheeky Joker in the Nicholson vein.
Should Christopher Nolan make another Batman film, especially with Christian Bale, I think it might be unwise to include the Joker with a new actor (though not for any reason other than inevitable and endless Ledger caparisons). But when another creative team takes on the Batman series, which will surely happen sometime in the future, it would be fine to pick a new Joker! Hell, maybe the next generation will want another campy, cheeky Joker in the Nicholson vein.

 

I don't think we'll ever see another cheesy Joker again. Jack Nicholson's performance was top notch in Batman (I know a lot of people even doubted Ledger could top Nicholson's Joker!) but I think the re-boot of the Batman franchise has worked so well because it's become darker and grittier. The old Batman films got scrapped because they were just joke films really (i've not seen them bar the original Batman done by Burton) and aimed at kids.

 

Warner Bros have got themselves the biggest comic book franchise at the moment, and they'd be mad to kill it off at the moment. Again, adding another Joker at the moment would be horrible. Like you say he'd be compared to Ledger by most people and especially by the critics. But eventually a new Joker will be cast, hopefully someone who will be able to match Heath Ledger's performance in The Dark Knight.

Bottom line is, anyone who understands anything about comics knows that the villians are always recurring, they always come back with greater and more malicious schemes and plans, this is what makes them the Nemeses of the heroes, the fact that they will always come back, and always try to make life a misery for the heroes, as The Joker said "You wont kill me because I give your life meaning, I wont kill you because you're just so much fun.....". Nahhh, expect The Joker to return, not in the next film, but at some point in the future, maybe film four or five of the current era; and long may Chris and John Nolan's reign continue, they have turned The Batman into by far the greatest comic-to-film franchise of all time through brilliant writing, an excellent and flawless choice of casting and Chris Nolan's own superb directing, there is nobody better just now at bringing Batman to the screen, simply because they know what made the comics great in the first place and they have total respect for that......

 

And I still say Robert Downey Jr could be just as good a Joker as Heath.....

Like Venom in Spiderman

 

Actually, the classic, iconic foe for Spidey was always Green Goblin/Hobgoblin mate, along with Dr Octopus, Venom was MUCH later in the comic's timeline..... ;)

To be honest, I think as long as they make the Joker quite different to Ledger's Joker it is acceptable. And every actor will make the Joker 'their own' I think, by interpreting the character in their own different way - Nicholson's and Ledger's Jokers are COMPLETELY different. I don't see what the issue is really...
Batman 3 is in the pipeline, but no script yet, we could be in for a long wait though, the Nolan Brothers have taken on other projects, as far as I know Catwoman is to be featured along with the Penguin.
It's a stupid idea. To remove the Joker would in no way benifit the Batman franchise. He is the biggest villian in the show and the one most people remember and not just because of Heath.
To be honest, I think as long as they make the Joker quite different to Ledger's Joker it is acceptable. And every actor will make the Joker 'their own' I think, by interpreting the character in their own different way - Nicholson's and Ledger's Jokers are COMPLETELY different. I don't see what the issue is really...

 

Indeed they are... As is Cesar Romero's Joker from the 60s TV show.... Which, again, just proves that these e-loons with their fukkin' petitions are just a set of stupidly fanatical Ledger fans who know bugger all about the history of the Batman franchise, the comic books or the TV show, and they should just SHUT THE HELL UP AND GET LIVES...... :rolleyes:

 

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