At the moment Scotland has what is virtually a coalition parliament. The SNP need the support of not one but 2 other parties, the Lib Dems and either the Tories or the Greens. It seems to work.

 

I'd like to see the voting system for Holyrood used for Westminster because it gives the smaller parties a better chance of some seats - first past the post vote for a personal MP in your ward and then a second vote for a party with seats then being allocated from party lists, in proportion to the number of votes cast.

 

I can't be bothered with the adversarial nature of Westminster politics. It's so tiresome. They're like squabbling schoolkids trying to score points, instead of mature politicians genuinely trying to do the best for everyone.

 

Personally I much prefer the Holyrood situation to any party having the sort of majorities the Tories had under Maggie. It gave them the freedom to roughshod over the rest of the parliament whether their policies were in the real interest of the people or not. The mainly Labour MPs returned from Scotland could do virtually nothing while her manufacturing industries were laid to waste.

Edited May 23, 200916 yr by Baytree

At the moment Scotland has what is virtually a coalition parliament. The SNP need the support of not one but 2 other parties, the Lib Dems and either the Tories or the Greens. It seems to work.

 

I'd like to see the voting system for Holyrood used for Westminster because it gives the smaller parties a better chance of some seats - first past the post vote for a personal MP in your ward and then a second vote for a party with seats then being allocated from party lists, in proportion to the number of votes cast.

 

I can't be bothered with the adversarial nature of Westminster politics. It's so tiresome. They're like squabbling schoolkids trying to score points, instead of mature politicians genuinely trying to do the best for everyone.

 

Personally I much prefer the Holyrood situation to any party having the sort of majorities the Tories had under Maggie. It gave them the freedom to roughshod over the rest of the parliament whether their policies were in the real interest of the people or not. The mainly Labour MPs returned from Scotland could do virtually nothing while her manufacturing industries were laid to waste.

The current scandal over MPs' expenses illustrates one of the problems of first past the post. A voter who wants to support their usual party may be faced with a choice between voting for someone tainted by the scandal or voting for a party they don't support (or, of course, not voting at all). We need a system that puts more power in the hands of voters, not parties.

We can all scream about how atrocious Labour are and shout loudly for a General Election, like, yesterday..... but the only dullards doing that are the dullards who want a Conservative government.

 

These same dullards are forgetting that this whole mess, like many otrhers that are cropping uip during the past few years, can be laid at the doorstep of...yes... Margaret Thatcher, who brought the new rules in around expenses when she was leader in the late 80s.

 

As we've read.... Kenneth 'Piggy' Clarke did rather well out of it....but... how did the Rusty Lady herself do? As a woman who clearly knew the price for everything but the value of nothing, it's patently obvious that she wouldn't have brought these rules in if they didn't benefit her financially.... so surely..... we MUST delve back through her expense accounts for her time in office. Why has this not been done yet?

 

And, of course, any irregularities found MUST be accounted for and explained by her. And any legal problems she may encounter - she must face them full on. She didn't seem like a person too concerned with wittering away public funds for her own ends (her idiot of a son lost in the desert, anyone? Plus his subsequent bailing out on the coup charges some time ago).

 

Whilst Labour have had ample toime to right this evil woman's wrongs...... this whole sorry, sordid mess is truly a case of "please don't shoot the messenger", don't you think?

 

Yes, that's fair enough, Russ, but come on... Maggie's been out of power for 20 years, The Tories have been out of power for 12, there really has to come a time when you stop and say, "well, you had ample opportunity to do it before now, you didn't so, you're just as bad as the last lot....". Sorry, Russ, but Nu Labor ARE as bad as the Tories ever were in my view.... You want more examples - total financial chaos, "boom and (massive) bust, letting the city run rampant and allowing total Market Anarchy without any thought for the consequences, creating a "loadsamoney" culture within the banking and finance industry, an illegal war which goes against all senses of decency and morals, being totally up the arses of the Americans, an utter collapse in morale in the public sector, absolute fukkin' chaos in the NHS and Schools, and now, millions of people out of work.... Gee, sure SOUNDS like Thatcher doesn't it....? Only, it's not.... It's been caused by the very people WE voted in in 1997 to stop this sh!t.....

 

I'm not making excuses for this lot.. Why the hell are you.....?

I agree with you, Scott, and far from making excuses for this sorry lot we have in government, I have said... they had ample time to correct mistakes made by former leading parties...and they haven't.

 

But to base any anti-Labour scaremongering on this fiasco is wrong.... because the decision to keep MPs expenses secret and open to abuse wasn't made by them...yes, they SHOULD have changed this and they didn't..... but the decision to start this sickening gravy train was made by Thatcher - for Thatcher and for her sleazy bunch of henchmen. And it's at her feet this particular buck MUST stop.

 

After all, they try 95 year old men for war crimes..... and there's nothing that would satisfy me more than this mad old bat on the witness stand answering for her wrongs. For this AND for the Belgrano.

Normally, when any of us are given perks in lieu of salary, the taxman insists we should pay tax on them. Not so, in the case of MPs. Hidden away as Section 292 of the Income Tax (Pensions and Earnings) Act 2003 is a clause headed "Overnight expenses allowances of MPs". This rules that there should be "no liability for income tax" for MPs on the "overnight expenses allowances" given for the "purpose of performing their parliamentary duties". Furthermore, it is up to them how loosely this should

be interpreted.

 

In other words, the Government that, under the same Act, insisted that "council members and civic dignitaries" must be "treated in the same way as any other individual who holds an office or is an employee", gave MPs a unique exemption from the tax rules. This was the same House of Commons that insisted the Queen should pay income tax.

 

Source: Daily Telegraph

Why does this not surprise me, they put themselves above the law(well for tax law anyway)

I agree with you, Scott, and far from making excuses for this sorry lot we have in government, I have said... they had ample time to correct mistakes made by former leading parties...and they haven't.

 

But to base any anti-Labour scaremongering on this fiasco is wrong.... because the decision to keep MPs expenses secret and open to abuse wasn't made by them...yes, they SHOULD have changed this and they didn't..... but the decision to start this sickening gravy train was made by Thatcher - for Thatcher and for her sleazy bunch of henchmen. And it's at her feet this particular buck MUST stop.

 

After all, they try 95 year old men for war crimes..... and there's nothing that would satisfy me more than this mad old bat on the witness stand answering for her wrongs. For this AND for the Belgrano.

 

Eh...? How am I doing that mate...? I've pretty clearly pointed out that there are so many reasons APART from the expenses scandal to detest Nu Labor/Broon, I'm not basing my anti-Labour sentiments on just the one issue (in the actual scheme of things it's a pretty damn minor factor in comparison to Iraq and the recession really...), I'm looking at their whole 12 years in office, and it's been one screw up after another really, the alarm bells started ringing after the whole Bernie Ecclestone thing, and are now so utterly deafening that you cant possibly ignore them.....

 

And pretty much every time there's been some scandal or other, the Conservative party have been unable to take advantage of it because one of their people has been doing almost the same, just more discreetly. The Tory machine has always been brilliant when it comes to cover ups - they've had many, many years practice.

 

The expenses scandal is like every other one, a minority of MPS right across the parties let down their colleagues and their constituents by selfish greed.

Well today we found out the Alistair Darling,the chancellor who is entrusted to help us pull through the recession and deal with a debt of billions and billions, claims expenses for........................................................an accountant to help him fill in his personal tax return.

 

Be afraid, be really afraid.

Well today we found out the Alistair Darling,the chancellor who is entrusted to help us pull through the recession and deal with a debt of billions and billions, claims expenses for........................................................an accountant to help him fill in his personal tax return.

 

Be afraid, be really afraid.

 

I don't follow.

I don't follow.

 

Well if the guy in charge of the country's finances which are a bit complicated, cannot fill in his own tax return,which in the case of MP's is his salary only, since everything else he gets seems to be tax free, then he's not the brightest light in the box is he.

Well today we found out the Alistair Darling,the chancellor who is entrusted to help us pull through the recession and deal with a debt of billions and billions, claims expenses for........................................................an accountant to help him fill in his personal tax return.

 

Be afraid, be really afraid.

:manson:

 

No wonder were up $h!t f***ing creek if the guy in charge of the money can't even do basic accountancy. :angry:

Well if the guy in charge of the country's finances which are a bit complicated, cannot fill in his own tax return,which in the case of MP's is his salary only, since everything else he gets seems to be tax free, then he's not the brightest light in the box is he.

 

Spot on Bri.... Of course, he'll probably use the excuse that he's "too busy" to fill in his tax return himself.... Which is pretty lame considering the amount of time MPs actually have away from the House of Commons..... :rolleyes:

 

Your essential point is right though, I mean if he cant seem to be too up on sorting out his own financial affairs, then how on earth can he be trusted to effectively do so for the entire country.....

 

Looks like The Telegraph missed this one. The Sunday Herald didn't though.... :lol:

 

From

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnew...2512926.0.0.php

 

Joiner: 'I didn't do work Devine claimed for'

 

A SCOTTISH Labour MP is under intense pressure to quit after his local publican flatly contradicted the MP's explanation of joinery work charged to the public purse, writes Paul Hutcheon.

 

Jim Devine directed £2326 from his office budget for joinery carried out by his friend Tony Moran, part of which was fitting 66 metres of heavy-duty shelving.

 

But when the Sunday Herald said no shelves were visible at Devine's Livingston office, the MP said they were for his second home in London.

 

Asked if he fitted shelving in Devine's London home, Moran said: "No."

 

Members of the MP's own party are now calling for police to investigate him for possible fraud over the shelving.

 

Labour members in Livingston are seeking signatures for a letter which, this newspaper has been told, will be handed to police tonight.

 

The letter states: "The seriousness of these allegations warrants a full police investigation. Hence, we wish to formally lodge a complaint of fraud and embezzlement against Jim Devine MP."

 

Devine was referred last week to Labour's special endorsements panel after a Sunday Herald investigation into his expenses.

 

He billed the taxpayer £2157 for "rewiring" work on his London second home, but the invoice supporting the repairs had a false VAT number, a sham postcode and a fictitious address.

 

Devine said he paid the tradesman in cash, then the electrician put an invoice under the door of his London flat.

 

Party bosses are also said to be concerned about the £2326 of "joinery" work Devine says he directed to Moran.

 

Asked to explain the joinery work, Moran said: "It was originally going to be in the office in Livingston, but there was no way it was going to fit in the office."

 

He then denied fitting the shelves in Devine's London home - in stark contrast to the MP's explanation.

 

Devine told his local newspaperlast week: "Tony is a personal friend of mine whom I have known for 35 years and has done joinery work for me in the past. He replaced and repaired floorboards and also put up shelving."

 

Devine's local councillors have already called on him to stand down as an MP.

 

Devine did not return calls.

 

Oh look. Bad news for the aforementioned 'shelf-man'

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8104140.stm

 

 

:lol:

Just as well the Telegraph published the expenses in full, as if we had left it to the MP's and the House of Commons it was pretty much censored, or REDACTED to be precise.

 

The amount of money repaid by MPs has increased to £478,616, the Commons authorities have confirmed.

 

More than 180 MPs, including nine Cabinet ministers, have repaid individual sums ranging from more than £40,000 to just £1.

 

No doubt the new speaker will come up with a new way for them to get more money, like increasing their salary's by some huge amount to cover the loss of expenses.

 

 

 

 

 

Just as well the Telegraph published the expenses in full, as if we had left it to the MP's and the House of Commons it was pretty much censored, or REDACTED to be precise.

 

It would be appropriate to call what ended up on the Govt's website as a "Blackwash"..... Utterly outrageous... Freedom of information?? Transparent Government??? Yeah, right...... <_< As much as I may dislike the Daily Torygraph, there is little doubt in my mind that they performed a public service by publishing the expense claims... We sure as hell would never have found out about any of this sh!t any other way that's for sure.....

 

It really amazes me, this bloody govt expects US, the ordinary, law-abiding taxpayers to surrender out details to ID cards or biometric passports, and surrender or DNA for a bloody database, and yet we have to drag these b'astards kicking and screaming into court to find out if they're cheating on their taxes and expenses or flipping their second homes...... Is there not just slightly something wrong with this....? It's downright hypocrisy when they go on about invasions of their privacy and yet have no problems at all invading yours or mine..... <_<

 

Here was me thinking that in a DEMOCRACY, the elected representatives of the people, SERVE THE PEOPLE, and not the other way round...... -_-