Give proof or shut up.

Well, you can always downgrade to a small flat, like people on Housing Benefit are going to have to do due to this government, which is something you've been cheerleading for.

For God's sake, everyone knows there's far more businesses and therefore far more jobs in the south east than anywhere else. Go to the north or the Midlands and try walking down High St and try and find all these jobs on offer.

 

I have no proof but the doctors who are doing the tests on the incapacity benefit claimants will have reasonable proof and I would be shocked if less than 1m are moved to JSA

 

Why should I downgrade to a small flat ? I work hard, I pay my taxes, every possession I have and every holiday I have had in adult life have been thanks to my hard work.

 

Maybe so but I would bet there are many jobs in retail, in supermarkets, in pubs and restaurants going right across the country, all towns in this country have those type of premises.

 

Large swathes of the current generation have a "i want it all and i want it now" attitude to life, wanting everything handed to them on a plate as opposed to getting their hands dirty, seeing anything below the position of managing director as being beneath them, not being prepared to get stuck in and do a days work, it is no wonder poles and romanians come over here and "nick" the jobs that are going, the pub where I sometimes go to to watch football ALL the kitchen staff bar 1 are from Eastern Europe, the landlord told me that they are the hardest working and have the best attitude and turn up on time and are reliable and that young Brits simply don't apply for the job or when they do are surly and badly presented because the job centre forced them to apply.

I agree that many people on IB are probably capable of doing some work some of the time. However, atm the benefits system is far too complicated to allow for that.

 

The same applies to the unemployed. If someone takes a job their benefit is stopped immediately. However, it may be a month before they get paid. If it's a short-term contract they then have to go through the whole rigmarole of applying again before they resume benefits. That all acts as a disincentive to take up a short-term contract.

The Observer is basically a Sunday version of The Guardian so full of socialists, marxists, communists and loony lefties who like nothing more than to take digs at the government.

 

I wholly agree. :)

Actually, the Observer is noticeably more centrist than the Guardian. It was somewhat supportive of the Iraq war for instance, and it endorsed David Miliband in the Labour leadership campaign as opposed to the Guardian's implied backing of the more left-wing Ed.

 

But anyway, it's completely irrelevant in this instance, because a government spokeswoman confirmed the letter was genuine, but merely said it was written 3 months ago (which reminds me of the government's weak and illogical line of defence when that IFS report condeming the Budget as regressive came out).

I have no proof but the doctors who are doing the tests on the incapacity benefit claimants will have reasonable proof and I would be shocked if less than 1m are moved to JSA

 

Why should I downgrade to a small flat ? I work hard, I pay my taxes, every possession I have and every holiday I have had in adult life have been thanks to my hard work.

 

Maybe so but I would bet there are many jobs in retail, in supermarkets, in pubs and restaurants going right across the country, all towns in this country have those type of premises.

 

Large swathes of the current generation have a "i want it all and i want it now" attitude to life, wanting everything handed to them on a plate as opposed to getting their hands dirty, seeing anything below the position of managing director as being beneath them, not being prepared to get stuck in and do a days work, it is no wonder poles and romanians come over here and "nick" the jobs that are going, the pub where I sometimes go to to watch football ALL the kitchen staff bar 1 are from Eastern Europe, the landlord told me that they are the hardest working and have the best attitude and turn up on time and are reliable and that young Brits simply don't apply for the job or when they do are surly and badly presented because the job centre forced them to apply.

Supermarkets aren't hiring. Morrisons have a company wide recruitment ban. Regional managers have to give permission for stores to hire. Apparently we aren't the only retail establishment with a hiring ban either.

I wholly agree. :)

 

What a surprise!

I agree that many people on IB are probably capable of doing some work some of the time. However, atm the benefits system is far too complicated to allow for that.

 

The same applies to the unemployed. If someone takes a job their benefit is stopped immediately. However, it may be a month before they get paid. If it's a short-term contract they then have to go through the whole rigmarole of applying again before they resume benefits. That all acts as a disincentive to take up a short-term contract.

 

Spot on... Benefits should continue for the first month of of employment... People still have to eat and take care of bills.... In some cases, it can take up to SIX WEEKS for a job to start paying out..... How can someone be expected to live for that period without some sort of benefit continuation...?

 

Craig - most of the jobs you were talking about involve standing around for long periods of time, how can someone with back condition such as Sciatica do that..? And, where are these "admin" posts coming from exactly? It's gonna be "admin", etc, that's gonna bear the brunt of the job cuts in the Public sector, mainly because we all hate the "bureucracy" and want it cut back... So, how the fukk does someone who's been long-term sick manage to slot in there when you're gonna have hundreds of thousands of unemployed people chasing the precious few jobs of that type that'll be around...? Answer - they cant.......

 

 

 

Well I didn't think these benefit cuts were going to be so severe!! They haven't even started reviewing the existing IB claimants yet. Starts in October according to some Disability forums. The new claimants are finding it almost impossible to be declared unfit for work though, despite some having severe illnesses. It's terrible.

 

Mark this date in your calendar - this is the day where I actually agree with Crazy Chris..... :lol:

 

Indeed it is terrible, and it's proof in my eyes that the Tories are targeting the most vulnerable in society as opposed to going after the rich scum and corporations who've been avoiding tax for many years... Frankly, if you made these b'astards pay the tax they owe, I'd bet about half the deficit could be paid back...

 

What does HMRC do instead - go after the low and average-paid worker because they're an easy target.... <_<

 

I'm with Bob Crow - time for a backlash - co-ordinated national strikes, days of action and protests.... We may even need another Poll Tax Riot to show these b'astards we mean business.....

Spot on... Benefits should continue for the first month of of employment... People still have to eat and take care of bills.... In some cases, it can take up to SIX WEEKS for a job to start paying out..... How can someone be expected to live for that period without some sort of benefit continuation...?

 

Craig - most of the jobs you were talking about involve standing around for long periods of time, how can someone with back condition such as Sciatica do that..? And, where are these "admin" posts coming from exactly? It's gonna be "admin", etc, that's gonna bear the brunt of the job cuts in the Public sector, mainly because we all hate the "bureucracy" and want it cut back... So, how the fukk does someone who's been long-term sick manage to slot in there when you're gonna have hundreds of thousands of unemployed people chasing the precious few jobs of that type that'll be around...? Answer - they cant.......

 

The issue shouldn't be though as to whether there are any jobs it should be an issue of whether they are capable of work, if they are capable of doing an admin job or a telesales job or whatever then they should be on JSA like everyone else who is capable of work. Whether there is any admin jobs is a side issue it is a matter of whether the incapacity benefit claimant is capable of doing some type of job, if they are then they belong on JSA

 

Incapacity benefit should only go to those that are totally incapable of working for physical or mental reasons, even drug addicts and alcoholics get incapacity benefit as do people with some phobia's, those groups should be getting treatment for their conditions and counselling so that they are capable of holding down a job not getting incapacity benefit.

 

Anyone who is capable of doing some sort of work should have incapacity benefit taken away and put onto JSA where they belong

Mark this date in your calendar - this is the day where I actually agree with Crazy Chris..... :lol:

 

Indeed it is terrible, and it's proof in my eyes that the Tories are targeting the most vulnerable in society as opposed to going after the rich scum and corporations who've been avoiding tax for many years... Frankly, if you made these b'astards pay the tax they owe, I'd bet about half the deficit could be paid back...

 

What does HMRC do instead - go after the low and average-paid worker because they're an easy target.... <_<

 

I'm with Bob Crow - time for a backlash - co-ordinated national strikes, days of action and protests.... We may even need another Poll Tax Riot to show these b'astards we mean business.....

 

Genuine claimants have nothing to fear, someone who is genuinely disabled and incapable of work won't lose a penny, the chancers, fraudsters, wasters, cheats have something to fear and rightly so.

 

I have no issue whatsoever with genuine claimants who are blatantly obviously not capable of any type of work, likewise I have no issue with those on JSA that are genuinely seeking work and making a hard effort to find work, I do have an issue with those that are taking the p***

 

Someone genuinely disabled has nothing to fear

The issue shouldn't be though as to whether there are any jobs it should be an issue of whether they are capable of work, if they are capable of doing an admin job or a telesales job or whatever then they should be on JSA like everyone else who is capable of work. Whether there is any admin jobs is a side issue it is a matter of whether the incapacity benefit claimant is capable of doing some type of job, if they are then they belong on JSA

 

Incapacity benefit should only go to those that are totally incapable of working for physical or mental reasons, even drug addicts and alcoholics get incapacity benefit as do people with some phobia's, those groups should be getting treatment for their conditions and counselling so that they are capable of holding down a job not getting incapacity benefit.

 

Anyone who is capable of doing some sort of work should have incapacity benefit taken away and put onto JSA where they belong

 

I read about a 19 year-old woman with bad acne who gets IB as she says she can't work because she feels self conscious when facing the other workers with her spots. :rolleyes: There are people on IB with all sorts of unusual ailments.

Genuine claimants have nothing to fear, someone who is genuinely disabled and incapable of work won't lose a penny, the chancers, fraudsters, wasters, cheats have something to fear and rightly so.

 

I have no issue whatsoever with genuine claimants who are blatantly obviously not capable of any type of work, likewise I have no issue with those on JSA that are genuinely seeking work and making a hard effort to find work, I do have an issue with those that are taking the p***

 

Someone genuinely disabled has nothing to fear

 

Not true Craig. Your last sentence is just Tory crap. :angry: Haven't you read about the woman in terrible pain with terminal cancer who was told she was capable of work still? :rolleyes: There are lots of other cases coming to light now too. These are just new claimants as they haven't even started on the existing ones until next month. It's predicted by some that the number of pending appeals will completely overwhelm the system with waits up to a year!!

Edited September 13, 201014 yr by Common Sense

I read about a 19 year-old woman with bad acne who gets IB as she says she can't work because she feels self conscious when facing the other workers with her spots. :rolleyes: There are people on IB with all sorts of unusual ailments.

 

That is not an excuse, if she is self conscious then she should get some clearisil for her face and some counselling for her self consciousness, she is exactly the type of person who should not be claiming incapacity benefit.

 

I have worked alongside a burns victim (looked like a clone of Simon Weston almost) and he didn't wallow about in self pity he went to work, I have worked alongside people in wheelchairs, someone with cancer who's hair had fallen out, so a 19 year old girl with a few zits should not be getting £30 extra a week, she is taking the p***

Edited September 13, 201014 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber

Not true Craig. Your last sentence is just Tory crap. :angry: Haven't you read about the woman in terrible pain with terminal cancer who was told she was capable of work still? :rolleyes: There are lots of other cases coming to light now too. These are just new claimants as they haven't even started on the existing ones until next month. It's predicted by some that the number of pending appeals will completely overwhelm the system with waits up to a year!!

 

In my OPINION, not based on fact but based on gut instinct at least half, probably nearer 2/3 of those that are on incapacity benefit shouldn't be, either they are trying it on and are crooks or they have conditions that make them still capable of work so it is right that incapacity benefit goes to only those that are physically incapable of doing any sort of job.

 

It should be purely for those that are physically in a state of paralysis, have brain damage, have cancer which requires chemo or radiotherapy, are blind, have severe mental illness, have a long term physical condition like MS or parkinson's etc

 

It should not be going to the likes of insecure teenagers with a few zits

Edited September 13, 201014 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber

Just out of interest Craig, how many people do you personally know who are on incapacity benefit? I'd love to know how you came to this 2/3 conclusion?

Just out of interest Craig, how many people do you personally know who are on incapacity benefit? I'd love to know how you came to this 2/3 conclusion?

 

I only personally know 2, 1 has MS and should rightfully be entitled to it, the other one is in his late 50's and has severe arthritis, in both cases it is right that they should be

So on what basis has your "2/3" theory been founded, because clearly it isn't personal experience? 'Gut instinct' is an utter cop out, only to be used when you have nothing to back your argument up with.

So on what basis has your "2/3" theory been founded, because clearly it isn't personal experience? 'Gut instinct' is an utter cop out, only to be used when you have nothing to back your argument up with.

 

Based on the criteria of what I would allow as suitable for incapacity benefit my guess is around 1m people out of the 2.5m claimants would likely suffer from the conditions that I would deem suitable as preventing them from being capable of work

 

The fact that doctors sign off teenagers with zits as being incapacitated shows that it is time to bring in strict measures as to what conditions make someone incapable of work

That is not an excuse, if she is self conscious then she should get some clearisil for her face and some counselling for her self consciousness, she is exactly the type of person who should not be claiming incapacity benefit.

 

You say it as if that's easy. You realise that there's on average 3-month waiting lists to get counselling on the NHS even if you have severe depression? And even then you're only entitled to it for free for a limited amount of time unless you're literally suicidal. This woman has probably only been granted sickness benefits temporarily while she awaits counselling.

 

The majority of people on incapacity benefit are there due to mental health problems, and that's because the NHS is woefully inequipped to deal with them. If you're so concerned about people being on IB due to it, then by all means support big increases in health spending to ensure they actually are able to work, like most other European countries do.

The issue shouldn't be though as to whether there are any jobs it should be an issue of whether they are capable of work, if they are capable of doing an admin job or a telesales job or whatever then they should be on JSA like everyone else who is capable of work. Whether there is any admin jobs is a side issue it is a matter of whether the incapacity benefit claimant is capable of doing some type of job, if they are then they belong on JSA

 

One of the conditions of unemployment benefits is that you have to be available to do ANY work, that's the way it worked when I was claiming Income Support as it was over a decade and a bit ago, there's no discretion, you couldn't turn down work if a definite offer was on the table, otherwise you'd automatically lose benefits. So, again, I ask you, how can someone with a chronic back condition do a job which entails standing around all day if THAT is all they're being offered...? Answer - it's not possible...