This stuff always makes me laugh. The UK together as a coutry is a strong one, if we all broke off we'd be very weak. England could just about survive, but Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be disasterous. I can see why politicians (and voters) want it, but they are not looking at the bigger picture. Cluessless morons.

England would easily survive, please show me some facts that Scotland wouldn't? because all I know is Scotland would be as or more developed without us.

 

And to Suedehead on his Tory Scots majorities in the 50's - yep, LONGGGGGGG GONE! :D

England would easily survive, please show me some facts that Scotland wouldn't? because all I know is Scotland would be as or more developed without us.

 

And to Suedehead on his Tory Scots majorities in the 50's - yep, LONGGGGGGG GONE! :D

 

Scotland, the most obese region of the most obese country in Europe where life expectancy in some areas is 20 years lower than the UK average?

 

Okay...

Scotland, the most obese region of the most obese country in Europe where life expectancy in some areas is 20 years lower than the UK average?

 

Okay...

 

They could always get McDonalds to sponsor the country.

They could always get McDonalds to sponsor the country.

Second best post of the thread - after your Sugababes one :lol:

I think the lack of mention of Wales is because there's no call for independence from them. They know it would be disastrous if they left the UK.

 

Not at all - the majority of Welsh people want complete independence. The problem is, we have a Welsh Assembly government that is only concerned with Welsh cities - all its money is ploughed into Cardiff, Swansea and Newport - the rest of Wales is left to rot.

 

Welsh people have never forgiven the English for Margaret Thatcher, simple.

Welsh people have never forgiven the English for Margaret Thatcher, simple.

 

Same with Scotland I suppose.

Not at all - the majority of Welsh people want complete independence. The problem is, we have a Welsh Assembly government that is only concerned with Welsh cities - all its money is ploughed into Cardiff, Swansea and Newport - the rest of Wales is left to rot.

 

Welsh people have never forgiven the English for Margaret Thatcher, simple.

 

The Welsh Assembly! I have been there, all they bang on about is how environmentally sustainable the building is if you go and visit (After you pass through airport style security!)

However they have their perks. University costs subsidies for Welsh students and free prescriptions!

 

So true! However huge amounts of money is being invested into the valleys at the moment, it's so deprived they had to really. Cardiff is just astonishing to see how it has changed. It is a city Wales can be proud to call it's capital. The shopping and city life is amazing.

 

(Bold Part) Omg you are so right, Tories are hated for this reason. The Tories are literally are hated in Wales and thats the reason Labour is constantly holding them back (thank Goodness Labour is), people just don't trust them in Wales simple.

Scotland, the most obese region of the most obese country in Europe where life expectancy in some areas is 20 years lower than the UK average?

 

Okay...

 

Middlehaven in Middlesbrough has a life ex. of 54, 25 years below the UK average - and Easington nearby, highest rate of teenage pregnancies and smoking addicts in the nation. Therefore, England cannot survive, based on a few selected facts about how dire British society is.

 

Okay...

Middlehaven in Middlesbrough has a life ex. of 54, 25 years below the UK average - and Easington nearby, highest rate of teenage pregnancies and smoking addicts in the nation. Therefore, England cannot survive, based on a few selected facts about how dire British society is.

 

Okay...

 

I see your point, but even so I don't see much evidence that Scotland would survive on its own.

England would easily survive, please show me some facts that Scotland wouldn't? because all I know is Scotland would be as or more developed without us.

 

And to Suedehead on his Tory Scots majorities in the 50's - yep, LONGGGGGGG GONE! :D

 

They might be able to survive, but they would be a very weak coutry. At the moment as Great Britian we are one of the top countries in the world. Are you telling me Scotland would be able to keep up with the likes of France, Japan and the USA without Great Britian? Not a chance. The Scottish hate the English. Yes I get that, but there's a huge amount of arrogance about Scottish people thinking they would be fine without England because they wouldn't.

They might be able to survive, but they would be a very weak coutry. At the moment as Great Britian we are one of the top countries in the world. Are you telling me Scotland would be able to keep up with the likes of France, Japan and the USA without Great Britian? Not a chance. The Scottish hate the English. Yes I get that, but there's a huge amount of arrogance about Scottish people thinking they would be fine without England because they wouldn't.

 

That works both ways, in fairness. Scotland's oil has generated a lot of money for the UK. Those hundreds of millions of tonnes of oil benefitted England immensely. I can see where the Scots are coming from. Yes, the UK is probably better off united, but this whole "they wouldn't survive without us" argument isn't at all viable. How do we know they wouldn't be able to govern themselves? Both countries have benefitted equally from each other. Scotland, if they secured the rights to their oil and waters upon independence, could then live quite comfortably if they manage their resources like the Norwegians do. Norway had to spend a huge amount of money setting up their gas and oil infrastructure, and didn't see any profit from it until fifteen or so years after the discovery of oil. Scotland already have the infrastructure in place, so there would be income straight away. That's not to say that they should depend on oil and gas entirely, but Scotland does have the 3rd largest GDP in the UK after London and the South East, and Edinburgh is a major European financial centre. Ireland and Scotland are extremely similar in terms of output and industry, the main advantage Scotland has is oil and gas [ireland has it too, but the government don't see a penny of it - the multinationals like Shell take it all :D], so I'm sure they would have a good chance of surviving.

 

And why would Scotland have to keep up with France, Japan or the USA? A small country can still be successful. It doesn't have to have a big ego. :heehee: But yeah, back to the original question - I think that each country should be able to determine their future, be that in the union or not. Obviously the UK will be "stronger" or whatever, but why must one always be strong? Is it some former imperial culture thing that I'm not quite grasping? :/

 

That works both ways, in fairness. Scotland's oil has generated a lot of money for the UK. Those hundreds of millions of tonnes of oil benefitted England immensely. I can see where the Scots are coming from. Yes, the UK is probably better off united, but this whole "they wouldn't survive without us" argument isn't at all viable. How do we know they wouldn't be able to govern themselves? Both countries have benefitted equally from each other. Scotland, if they secured the rights to their oil and waters upon independence, could then live quite comfortably if they manage their resources like the Norwegians do. Norway had to spend a huge amount of money setting up their gas and oil infrastructure, and didn't see any profit from it until fifteen or so years after the discovery of oil. Scotland already have the infrastructure in place, so there would be income straight away. That's not to say that they should depend on oil and gas entirely, but Scotland does have the 3rd largest GDP in the UK after London and the South East, and Edinburgh is a major European financial centre. Ireland and Scotland are extremely similar in terms of output and industry, the main advantage Scotland has is oil and gas [ireland has it too, but the government don't see a penny of it - the multinationals like Shell take it all :D], so I'm sure they would have a good chance of surviving.

 

You put a lot of emphasis on Oil and Gas reserves which are running out rapidly. The UK now imports more than ever so I highly doubt even that could support Scotland longterm.

Yeah I think we should. I think it could be fun!

You put a lot of emphasis on Oil and Gas reserves which are running out rapidly. The UK now imports more than ever so I highly doubt even that could support Scotland longterm.

 

It's all economically viable for at least another decade, which is long enough to develop other areas of industry with the money created from it. And I did state that they should follow the Norwegian model, which is use the profits created to fund other areas of industry such as green energy. Scotland has plenty of water and wind. Invest in this and Scotland could be exporting green energy to many countries.

Yeah I think we should. I think it could be fun!

 

Obvious troll is obvious

I am highly pro-Union, always have been always will be. I will vote down the sleazycunts referendum with a smile on my face. [On the assumption I can vote yes to DevoMax]

 

HOWEVER. I am overwhelmingly for Devolution Max. After the Unification we kept our own Legal System [because it was more advanced than England's and it was going to be far too much work to pull England's up to the same standard - This is coming from my friends who studied law and have graduated with 2:1's], we kept our Healthcare separate and our Education has been separated. We have been looking after ourselves for quite some time, but we should have far more tax powers.

 

Scotland has existed as an independent nation for far longer than we have been part of the Union, despite my protests over recent years to state otherwise, I think Scotland could survive on it's own if we can steal back our oil. It is after all in Scottish territorial waters and Westminster would be violating International Law if they didn't allow us our international waters.

 

From what I've been reading up here, the recession was not quite as bad up here and we've been surviving far better than the rest of the UK because the SNP refused to make cuts and are still investing in infrastructure and other projects to keep the economy moving.

 

Someone mentioned Life Expectancy, the Slums of Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee are no worse than their English counterparts so I fail to see your point. I'd imagine that my region is at SE England levels at the very least.

 

I'd rather stay as part of the Union under full devolution, but if Camoron won't allow DevoMax then he can fuck himself and I'd vote to separate the union. I know entering the EU as a small nation would mean we're going to enter the EuroZone and Schengen Area but I'm very for the single currency and I'd love to fly to everywhere else in the EEC/EU without a Passport, even if it means I'd need one to enter England.

 

 

It's all economically viable for at least another decade, which is long enough to develop other areas of industry with the money created from it. And I did state that they should follow the Norwegian model, which is use the profits created to fund other areas of industry such as green energy. Scotland has plenty of water and wind. Invest in this and Scotland could be exporting green energy to many countries.

Interesting you mention this, the SNP is heavily in Green Energy with highly ambitious targets of us getting a considerable amount of our energy from Green sources. The Nuclear station near Edinburgh is not being replaced and I can't see them authorising any Coal/Oil stations at all.

 

Recycling Targets for Councils are insane, Fife Council has now introduced a 5 bin system and swapped the paper and landfill bins so the paper bin is massive and the landfill bin is tiny. It wasn't that long ago that Fife didn't have ANY Kerbside recycling at all.

I'd rather stay as part of the Union under full devolution, but if Camoron won't allow DevoMax then he can fuck himself and I'd vote to separate the union.

!!!!!

 

God, you really were SNP all along :kink:

!!!!!

 

God, you really were SNP all along :kink:

I didn't say I'd live in an Independent Scotland. :lol:

 

It'd get me away from the Tories though, mind you so does emigration :kink:

 

 

It's that damn Manifesto, it was just too good. :cry:

Silas, I found your post very informative and true, and I agree with all the points you made.

I'd prefer full independence. But failing that, what Silas says. Devo Max.

 

I think the genie is out the bottle to be honest. Scotland will continue to move away from UK government control. It's just a matter of how far and how soon.