I still don't get the veto for Alida. I cannot say there's been any hype for it here on Buzzjack.

 

It have only charted in two personal charts (gooddelta and Johnkm), and only been mentioned on BJSC since it got vetoed... alot of people here have also said they havn't even heard it before.

 

It only got about 12 000 views on youtube.

It was posted on Scandipop... but so did the last two winners aswell... and they had ALOT more hype than Alida. Also, Alida have never been entered to the contest.

 

I'm sorry I won't let this go, because this veto make me confused... I have not even recived a message with a full explanation of why Alida got vetoed :(

I'm one of the main people who moan about it, and I'm fully aware that the majority of the post covers me - I'm not blind to what I'm doing, and I know that I must come across as irritating as f***... but there's two sides to every story, and if people disagree with the decisions being made, then they are going to say something.

 

I said a couple of times last night that I respect the job you do, and the work that you put in because I don't want it to be a thankless job, where I only moan, and I know that it's not going to be easy for you. It's the reason I didn't sign up to try and be a temp mod (would've been wasting my time as 50% of the mods don't like me anyway, but that's not the point) because I couldn't do it, the time that you put into doing it is something that I absolutely wouldn't be able to do. And, for that, I wholly respect you, Cal, Tom, Ghosty, Rich, whoever plays a part in it for that month. And no matter what comments are made - that remains the same, as I do know that you work hard for the forum. But, with making a decision on something like this, you are ALWAYS going to get replies. On the whole, they're not rude. When I was you were talking bullshit last night, that was rude, and I apologise for it - but I think you MUST be able to put yourselves in the shoes of me, Yu, or anyone who has complained the past, in that we got our entries TAKEN AWAY FROM US, and if we don't think that's justified, we're going to say so, and make a point for it. On the whole last night, I don't believe we were particularly rude. 95% of the time when I complain I don't intend it to be insulting, and I don't believe that I am being doing - but with the greatest of respect to you, Silas, you're not exactly insult-free yourself when talking to some of us sometimes. Respect works two ways - if I were Ryan and you kept speaking about me in a 'snidey' manner constantly,

 

You're always going to get opinions and that is part of the job, and you know that when you take it on - because people see the contest in different ways, and people view the contest in different ways. Do I personally think Karma / Expectation / Feathers deserved to be vetoed? Personally no. Because about 2/3 people were known to be a fan of it, which isn't even enough to qualify, if they were going to give it 12pts each. You're saying that it feels like an insult, but to some of us getting our entries vetoed, it feels like you're just going too far to make the contest overly 'unknown' - it's a two way system, when we make actions, you may be disappointed and vice versa. BJSC is a passionate game where people get involved, and I don't think most of us would send songs if they believed they'd be vetoed - so annoyance is going to arise.

 

I'm gutted that Martin looks like he may resign - I don't think I've ever ONCE complained about the way the stats thing is handled, it just looks like a hellish job, and there's no way I would ever want to do it, and like I say, I would personally like to say that regardless of the moaning, I do respect what you do, and I bet a lot of people feel the same.

That bolded section is not true in the slightest. We don't write off every reply by people as an attack but there are posts and it can be a single one or a serious of them that do feel like attacks. Sometimes the posters 'anger' dies down and they become more reasonable and then we start to try and spell out our reasoning a lot clearer. We can see it in people's posts when their attitude hits that point where they are not going to be receptive to anything we say and then once they will again.

 

We will happily sit and discuss why we've vetoed a track with you but we're not going to sit and waste our time debating with someone when we think it'll do nothing other than spiral into an argument. I will have all the time in the world for someone who is like: "Oh, I didn't think my track was a candidate for vetoing. Would a mod mind explaining to me why it was vetoed?" because, like I said, we don't mind you questioning us. In fact we encourage it! We're just fed up of reactions like last night where instead of being calm and open to talking about it people just go on a rather "Silas-esque" anger fuelled rampage.

 

I fully understand your reasoning there Phil, thus I'm more aware if another situation like this arises, I shall have a better grasp as to how to deal with it rather than going into an anger rampage. Once again, sorry for last night.

I'm 100% behind Rob's post above. I really think the mods are doing a great job, but not a popular job. but this time I think we have been unfairly threated. I had no idea Alida would be veto, it was... like I have stated earlier, a hard slap in my face.

CONFIRMATIONS ARE CLOSED

A massive thanks to all 54 posters who sent confirmations over the last 7 days. The finalised lists will now be sent to the BJSC mods and the semi final voting thread will open tomorrow evening.

A shame it's ended on a sour note but I really hope that people look forward to the semi finals regardless and enjoy the music that'll be on offer.

Some songs just send out clear warning signs to avoid in my mind. I personally passed over sending Colors by Riva as Popjustice made it song of the day a few days ago and I know I'd get hell for sending something that's been hyped up on an incredibly popular source. Alida was one of the first tracks that I called out for veto, in fact scroll through my personal chart replies from a week or two ago (before confirmation opened!) and I had an exchange with JohnKM about how I wouldn't be sending Feathers because a number of factors put it, in my opinion, against the spirit of the contest. These factors are being hyped to the high heavens by the most popular blog ever to source BJSC entries, it's been in a few personal charts, it instantly went top five on iTunes Norway, it sounds exactly like a Robyn song which is already an instant top ten finish. It just felt to me like one of the most obvious vetos, before anybody even confirmed it! I certainly didn't mean to offed or upset anybody with my choice but I was asked to single out entries that I felt went against the spirit of the contest or that people probably wouldn't discover without the aid of BJSC and Alida was second for me only behind Alyssa Reid.

 

I do appreciate both sides of the argument however, and things do get a little bit heated from both sides but it's the name of the game. The veto makes people as angry as I got when we didn't have one and the likes of Hollywood stormed to victory! Nobody will ever agree with the decisions made because we're 50+ different personalities with varying ideas on what makes a suitable entry, but there are trillions of great songs out there that would never be in danger of a veto! I felt like Colors probably would be and I didn't fancy receiving the backlash so didn't even attempt to confirm it.

Some songs just send out clear warning signs to avoid in my mind. I personally passed over sending Colors by Riva as Popjustice made it song of the day a few days ago and I know I'd get hell for sending something that's been hyped up on an incredibly popular source. Alida was one of the first tracks that I called out for veto, in fact scroll through my personal chart replies from a week or two ago (before confirmation opened!) and I had an exchange with JohnKM about how I wouldn't be sending Feathers because a number of factors put it, in my opinion, against the spirit of the contest. These factors are being hyped to the high heavens by the most popular blog ever to source BJSC entries, it's been in a few personal charts, it instantly went top five on iTunes Norway, it sounds exactly like a Robyn song which is already an instant top ten finish. It just felt to me like one of the most obvious vetos, before anybody even confirmed it! I certainly didn't mean to offed or upset anybody with my choice but I was asked to single out entries that I felt went against the spirit of the contest or that people probably wouldn't discover without the aid of BJSC and Alida was second for me only behind Alyssa Reid.

 

I do appreciate both sides of the argument however, and things do get a little bit heated from both sides but it's the name of the game. The veto makes people as angry as I got when we didn't have one and the likes of Hollywood stormed to victory! Nobody will ever agree with the decisions made because we're 50+ different personalities with varying ideas on what makes a suitable entry, but there are trillions of great songs out there that would never be in danger of a veto! I felt like Colors probably would be and I didn't fancy receiving the backlash so didn't even attempt to confirm it.

Exactly! It's something that is always going to divide people. I mean, the reasoning for me there makes it sound like you would veto it because it sounded like it would do well, with a bit of blog support. Personally, would I agree? No, but everyone has a different view on things - and that's ALWAYS going to happen. I'm glad you've said you appreciate both sides of the argument, because at the end of the day, I don't think everybody sees BJSC in exactly the same light, and that's why things like this happen. It's not because we don't respect jobs done, or the contest itself, it's just a matter of contrasting opinions!

 

I personally find it really tough to find entries that aren't on well known blogs, as I just really don't know the right places to look. But, I certainly wouldn't enter something if I thought it was a definite veto, or I'd be wasting my time. For you, I think you'd want to send a song that NOBODY has heard and has been introduced to a few - but I personally don't think it has to be like that, a few already knew Moan before it won, but Lewis still introduced it to many. That's personally my stance on Karma / Feathers etc, but yeah, there are different opinions in a heated competition like this!

Some songs just send out clear warning signs to avoid in my mind. I personally passed over sending Colors by Riva as Popjustice made it song of the day a few days ago and I know I'd get hell for sending something that's been hyped up on an incredibly popular source. Alida was one of the first tracks that I called out for veto, in fact scroll through my personal chart replies from a week or two ago (before confirmation opened!) and I had an exchange with JohnKM about how I wouldn't be sending Feathers because a number of factors put it, in my opinion, against the spirit of the contest. These factors are being hyped to the high heavens by the most popular blog ever to source BJSC entries, it's been in a few personal charts, it instantly went top five on iTunes Norway, it sounds exactly like a Robyn song which is already an instant top ten finish. It just felt to me like one of the most obvious vetos, before anybody even confirmed it! I certainly didn't mean to offed or upset anybody with my choice but I was asked to single out entries that I felt went against the spirit of the contest or that people probably wouldn't discover without the aid of BJSC and Alida was second for me only behind Alyssa Reid.

 

I do appreciate both sides of the argument however, and things do get a little bit heated from both sides but it's the name of the game. The veto makes people as angry as I got when we didn't have one and the likes of Hollywood stormed to victory! Nobody will ever agree with the decisions made because we're 50+ different personalities with varying ideas on what makes a suitable entry, but there are trillions of great songs out there that would never be in danger of a veto! I felt like Colors probably would be and I didn't fancy receiving the backlash so didn't even attempt to confirm it.

So from now all songs who are posted on Scandipop will be vetoed?

 

And surly you cannot veto a song cause it "sounds" like other artists, or it "sounds" like a top 10 hit? I don't think Alida would have broken the spirit for the contest, but the veto for her surly have broken my spirit.

 

but okey, I will let this go now cause I'm sick to my stomach. Cause I really don't want to make anyone upset.

 

Let's forget the whole thing and be friends again! I found a new song which I like :D

Lol at the drama...last time i got mad was when mods vetoed toes by lights.

 

Anyway, I am happy with my choice this time, even though it is an decade old song, but I just discovered couple days ago...and of course after I tried to send all other songs that are already taken, I had to come up with something that I love!!!

Wow, what well constructed posts from our mods. I'd hate to have the job that you guys have and would almost certainly feel attacked if it was me, clearly there are lots of different personalities and we all REALLY get behind our entries so much that it gripes us when the veto comes.

 

As Silas said, best option should be to post (or PM), asking why the track was vetoed and then go from there. See both sides of the argument and then reevaluate again whether the track should have been vetoed! I haven't heard any of the vetoed tracks personally. - but I very rarely know anything other than my own entry beforehand.

Yeah, they are really good to speak for themself. Which I'm not, probably because the language barrier. When I post something, sometimes people read it diffrently from what I really mean :blush: I rarely mean anything bad cause I hate if someone thinks I have offended them :P

Exactly! It's something that is always going to divide people. I mean, the reasoning for me there makes it sound like you would veto it because it sounded like it would do well, with a bit of blog support. Personally, would I agree? No, but everyone has a different view on things - and that's ALWAYS going to happen. I'm glad you've said you appreciate both sides of the argument, because at the end of the day, I don't think everybody sees BJSC in exactly the same light, and that's why things like this happen. It's not because we don't respect jobs done, or the contest itself, it's just a matter of contrasting opinions!

 

I personally find it really tough to find entries that aren't on well known blogs, as I just really don't know the right places to look. But, I certainly wouldn't enter something if I thought it was a definite veto, or I'd be wasting my time. For you, I think you'd want to send a song that NOBODY has heard and has been introduced to a few - but I personally don't think it has to be like that, a few already knew Moan before it won, but Lewis still introduced it to many. That's personally my stance on Karma / Feathers etc, but yeah, there are different opinions in a heated competition like this!

 

No way, but when something is heavily compared to Robyn (surely THE best loved act on BJ from an 'appeals to everyone' standpoint) and sounds exactly like her then it does become one of a number of reasons as to why I vetoed that track. I certainly wouldn't veto anything that I thought sounded like it would do well and there are about 10 individual reasons why I chose to veto Feathers. Personally I try to avoid Scandipop like the plague these days as half the participants follow it religiously so to me personally it feels pointless using it, the last time I did was with Flares, and I'm pretty sure that this was one of those that slipped well under the radar as nobody had charted it before I sent it! But that's not to say that everybody should avoid it, there are still some gems to be found on there that get shoved quickly out of the way for bigger things. But I genuinely do appreciate everybody's opinions and arguments, we all have different views on things and I'm sure if Oricon, Jerick, yourself and Jonjo were the mods then it would be a different set of songs altogether that would get the boot, which another set of people would disagree with. You will never be able to please 54 people, as hard as you try.

 

So from now all songs who are posted on Scandipop will be vetoed?

 

And surly you cannot veto a song cause it "sounds" like other artists, or it "sounds" like a top 10 hit? I don't think Alida would have broken the spirit for the contest, but the veto for her surly have broken my spirit.

 

but okey, I will let this go now cause I'm sick to my stomach. Cause I really don't want to make anyone upset.

 

Let's forget the whole thing and be friends again! I found a new song which I like :D

 

Absolutely not, I have the confirmations list in front of me and there are 10 (!) songs out of 54 that have recently featured on Scandipop. Featuring on that blog was one of many reasons why I chose to veto Feathers. There were also some other mods who vetoed Feathers who will have had their own reasons for doing so. And that's not what I meant at all. I explained the Robyn similarity point in my post above, if I vetoed everything that might sound like a top ten hit then I'd have vetoed half of the entries. At the end of the day after all of the entry changes from people this week we've scrutinised about 70 songs in great detail and out of those I personally chose to veto only four of these, so I'm certainly not just saying 'veto it' to any new confirmation that comes in, all of these decisions were well thought through and researched although we appreciate that they won't have been to everybody's agreement because we all have such different opinions.

 

I'm sure I can speak on behalf of the other mods too when I apologise for breaking your spirit, I was asked to stand back and impartially look at what I considered worthy of a veto and that's what I did. When emotions come into play later and the people behind the entries get upset is when the job becomes really hard. You certainly haven't made me upset and I wouldn't want to lose friends with anybody through this process! It's SO much harder than a lot of people might think, especially when you have to defend your reasoning against a torrent of abuse. But that's fine, I'm a supervisor in the biggest department of a high-turnover retail store, I'm used to abuse and defending my actions and it rarely affects me emotionally!

ah confirmations seemed to end so quick this week!! still not sure on my entry at all, but i guess after waiting since XLVIII it's time!!

No way, but when something is heavily compared to Robyn (surely THE best loved act on BJ from an 'appeals to everyone' standpoint) and sounds exactly like her then it does become one of a number of reasons as to why I vetoed that track. I certainly wouldn't veto anything that I thought sounded like it would do well and there are about 10 individual reasons why I chose to veto Feathers. Personally I try to avoid Scandipop like the plague these days as half the participants follow it religiously so to me personally it feels pointless using it, the last time I did was with Flares, and I'm pretty sure that this was one of those that slipped well under the radar as nobody had charted it before I sent it! But that's not to say that everybody should avoid it, there are still some gems to be found on there that get shoved quickly out of the way for bigger things. But I genuinely do appreciate everybody's opinions and arguments, we all have different views on things and I'm sure if Oricon, Jerick, yourself and Jonjo were the mods then it would be a different set of songs altogether that would get the boot, which another set of people would disagree with. You will never be able to please 54 people, as hard as you try.

I completely agree with everything you've just said (shock horror!) - something like this will always divide people, and maybe actually being a mod requires you to toughen up, and sort of look at things from a more fixated perspective. I wouldn't know, but yeah, I do definitely agree with what you've said - and you have your reasons for Feathers and what not, and it won't be overturned now, so that does have to be respected.

I'm suprised mine hasn't been veto'd yet :)

I'm suprised mine hasn't been veto'd yet :)

 

I think mine is safe this contest, although I wouldn't dare tell anyone where I got it from :lol:

I'm quietly confident for this month. My current entry is (to me at least) utter BLISS.

Unfortunately the whole "vetoing instrument" is based on the experts' opinion and can't be properly measured by any of the numbers (i.e. number of personal charts, blogs etc. even if that's a factor). And every decision based on experts' factor is biased by a subjective point of view. We all elect dumb politicians to rule ourselves almost every bloody time! And therefore as long as this system stays in its current form there always will be some sort of a conflict. I don't know what to do with it, it's like a "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" thing. If we don't have the vetoing system there always be a 'What About Us' type song doing well every month. And if we have it there always be a truly unjustified veto from time to time. To change the system? There are already a lot of people having an influence on veto making decision. And these are "the elite" of the forum! So all we have to do is to trust them and their decisions even if sometimes they may seem too harsh/unjustified to us. Obviously we can make some kind of appellation but in the errrm... correct form. I perfectly know that feeling when I feel undeservedly punished. And I perfectly know that my tongue can go wild and say something that I may SO regret in the future. :P

 

My overall point is that I hope in the future we won't have so emotional battles between mods and participants and everything will be polite and respectful. Yes, I know that we all clearly understand that but every time when it goes to vetoing in practice every time someone from other side is seemingly getting offended - and that is very frustrating. Even myself who is writing this exact post is sometimes to blame for that. And I apologise if any of my phrase was seemingly harsh for you even if it was just a phrase. So... I really hope that next time we all shall be respectful to the max next and further times. We're all here for fun after all.

Oh my. I honestly didn't ever think the mods would think they were being attacked for whatever decisions they make (just like I thought you'd know that we truly appreciate everything else, without us thanking you all the time etc..)! If my posts came off as aggressive, I genuinely didn't mean them to and I really do appreciate the effort you guys put into other parts of the forum. Rob has said practically everything I've wanted to say on the situation (and a hell of a lot better than I ever could) so I'll leave it there. But this post is genuinely for my apologies to the mods who have felt like shit after me causing grief, just for vetoing a song. I do, sincerely apologise for that.

 

However, I don't think I'd ever read that the mods would "revaluate within good reason" or whatever before, because if I did I would have just PM'd about my past veto's/made a claim.