Not that the #1s would have been any different had streaming not been included... :unsure:

Maybe not but that's not the point I was making - it def is affecting the rest of the chart in a huge way and it's only the start of streaming in the chart.

Edited October 19, 201410 yr by steve201

Maybe not but that's not the point I was making - it def is affecting the rest of the chart in a huge way and it's only the start of streaming in the chart.

 

You make it seem like the weeks and weeks of changing #1s was due to pre-orders though :P Maybe in part it was but if the songs weren't popular, they wouldn't have reached #1.

Pre-orders have at least slowed the number of fake versions that make the chart (although it does still happen, see: Power Music Workout and the amazingly named Meghan Tonjes from just a few weeks ago)

LOL at a load of chart freaks saying something that's a mainstay of basically everything in the world that is sold should be abolished just because they don't like how it affects the charts. Zero perspective.

The idiocy of some of the people in the UK CHART FORUM of BuzzJack absolutely baffles me sometimes. Maybe a randomer in the Darius forum could be confused but how on Earth does someone who spends so much of their time following the iTunes chart come to the belief that pre-orders came into existence in the last two years? Literally the only thing that changed is companies shifting from favouring EP pre-orders (that show up on the album chart) to single pre-orders (that evidently show up on the singles chart). What on Earth happens to people that they forget the YEARS of EP pre-orders on iTunes? It used to be the case that when the new releases came out there would be posts for the progress of both the single and the accompanying EP, for goodness sake.

 

I swear some people's brains spontaneously melt.

Just because it is a mainstay of absolutely everything in the world (and I would dispute that actually, I haven't PRE-ORDERED any fruit and veg recently), doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Anyway, nice to see the childish name-calling has begun from the usual suspects.

Just because it is a mainstay of absolutely everything in the world (and I would dispute that actually, I haven't PRE-ORDERED any fruit and veg recently), doesn't mean it cannot be challenged. Anyway, nice to see the childish name-calling has begun from the usual suspects.

Why should it be challenged though? It's not like it causes any issues other than a few less MATHEMATICALLY PLEASING chart runs. And yeah, I find calling for something that conveniences both consumers and labels to be abolished for the sake of that inherently freakish and self-absorbed.

 

(okay, for the sake of pedantry, I'll narrow it to 'basically everything that involves releases', be it new products on the market or books or tickets. And in any case, you probably CAN pre-order fruit and veg if it's waiting on stock...)

Pre-orders have been going for years. I don't see why they'd have caused a big drop in sales this year :lol: iTunes had EP pre-orders as the "in-thing" until some point last year, I don't know why you think pre-orders alone would suddenly cause a drop in sales.

 

Its been advertised far more widely this year and nearly every song that gets released now has a pre-order, whereas before songs were either just held back a few weeks or released on air on sale, except for a select few who would do the ep thing as you mentioned. Its partly why we've had so many no.1s this year as they hold back the releases and get everyone to pre-order for maximum first week impact, but they loose sales in the run up to the release as people won't want to wait that long to get their hands on it. Comparing to last year, sales were quite noticeably lower before streaming came in and the only comparable difference I can see is pre-orders becoming more popular so that why I came to that conclusion, theres obviously other factors as well.

 

The main point I was trying to make though was that pre-orders don't really work the same way they used too and they loose sales because people find other means of getting hold of the music they want rather than wait 5-6 weeks for it and they make the charts boring :)

But 'Rather Be' reaching #7 on pre-orders was pretty epic, was it not?

Yeah it was but imo seeing a song rise from nowhere to the top whilst documenting the various chart positions is more epic.

 

Case in point:

 

http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s...155584&st=0 (rise to #1 of John Newman)

 

http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=142677 (rise to #1 of Loreen & Rudimental)

 

 

Besides that was in January when the sales for the top 10 were probably at their lowest of the year so far.

You make it seem like the weeks and weeks of changing #1s was due to pre-orders though :P Maybe in part it was but if the songs weren't popular, they wouldn't have reached #1.

 

 

There was occassions though when a song with weeks of pre orders would JUST make it to the top spot which seemed unfair.

Its been advertised far more widely this year and nearly every song that gets released now has a pre-order, whereas before songs were either just held back a few weeks or released on air on sale, except for a select few who would do the ep thing as you mentioned. Its partly why we've had so many no.1s this year as they hold back the releases and get everyone to pre-order for maximum first week impact, but they loose sales in the run up to the release as people won't want to wait that long to get their hands on it. Comparing to last year, sales were quite noticeably lower before streaming came in and the only comparable difference I can see is pre-orders becoming more popular so that why I came to that conclusion, theres obviously other factors as well.

 

The main point I was trying to make though was that pre-orders don't really work the same way they used too and they loose sales because people find other means of getting hold of the music they want rather than wait 5-6 weeks for it and they make the charts boring :)

 

 

Exactly correct :D

The idiocy of some of the people in the UK CHART FORUM of BuzzJack absolutely baffles me sometimes. Maybe a randomer in the Darius forum could be confused but how on Earth does someone who spends so much of their time following the iTunes chart come to the belief that pre-orders came into existence in the last two years? Literally the only thing that changed is companies shifting from favouring EP pre-orders (that show up on the album chart) to single pre-orders (that evidently show up on the singles chart). What on Earth happens to people that they forget the YEARS of EP pre-orders on iTunes? It used to be the case that when the new releases came out there would be posts for the progress of both the single and the accompanying EP, for goodness sake.

 

I swear some people's brains spontaneously melt.

If this post refers to me then I don't know what your on about, there was never a time when I said pre-orders didn't exist in 2012 or before that. Of course I know that they did, my point was that I miss seeing newly released songs rise from the bottom of the singles chart to their peak positions later in the day/week as they did in 2012 and if pre-orders were scrapped then that's what we would be seeing again.

 

It would also be good imo for entertainment reasons for EP's and newly released albums to rise up the chart in the same way. The charts would become A LOT less predictable than they are at the moment, now we know months in advance which songs are going to be #1 because of pre-orders.

If this post refers to me then I don't know what your on about, there was never a time when I said pre-orders didn't exist in 2012 or before that. Of course I know that they did, my point was that I miss seeing newly released songs rise from the bottom of the singles chart to their peak positions later in the day/week as they did in 2012 and if pre-orders were scrapped then that's what we would be seeing again.

 

It would also be good imo for entertainment reasons for EP's and newly released albums to rise up the chart in the same way. The charts would become A LOT less predictable than they are at the moment, now we know months in advance which songs are going to be #1 because of pre-orders.

You should not forget that it is predictable only to all the people who are a tad chart addicted. Those who only listen to the chart show Sundays, are not aware who will be where. So I think this whole pre-orders issue is a tiny bit overreacted and exaggerated.

I agree. If you don't want it to be predictable, stop following iTunes. Simple enough.

Pre-orders have at least slowed the number of fake versions that make the chart (although it does still happen, see: Power Music Workout and the amazingly named Meghan Tonjes from just a few weeks ago)

 

Meghan Tonjes is in fact the real name of a person who's a (very) minor Internet 'celebrity' in her own right. Very coincidental that there happens to be two fairly similar Meghan Ts, although I don't think it's a coincidence that she decided to record a cover of 'All About That Bass'.

Why should it be challenged though? It's not like it causes any issues other than a few less MATHEMATICALLY PLEASING chart runs. And yeah, I find calling for something that conveniences both consumers and labels to be abolished for the sake of that inherently freakish and self-absorbed.

 

(okay, for the sake of pedantry, I'll narrow it to 'basically everything that involves releases', be it new products on the market or books or tickets. And in any case, you probably CAN pre-order fruit and veg if it's waiting on stock...)

 

Because it is better for the consumer - in the old days of the past it made sense for manufacturers to take pre-orders. It avoided overstocking titles, but in the digital instant-access era it is old fashioned, out-dated, useless.

 

Because it is better for the consumer - in the old days of the past it made sense for manufacturers to take pre-orders. It avoided overstocking titles, but in the digital instant-access era it is old fashioned, out-dated, useless.

Not at all. It's a marketing tool and it works.

Because it is better for the consumer - in the old days of the past it made sense for manufacturers to take pre-orders. It avoided overstocking titles, but in the digital instant-access era it is old fashioned, out-dated, useless.

Old-fashioned, out-dated and useless? If it were all of those things there wouldn't be the demand for it. Which there clearly is, given it's causing such ruction. It's convenient for consumers who want something they like as soon as it's released, and for labels as they then don't miss out on those sales. You might not think it logical, but it's obviously useful to a lot of consumers.