Problem is thanks to labour social engineering there are too many graduates now, many of them with degrees that are looked down on by employers (not yours, stuff like media studies and sociology and history of art) all chasing the same jobs plus the most important factor these days is experience

 

10-15 years ago a cv with a degree on it really made employers eyes open but now everyone has a degree and a degree just doesn't stand out any more

 

Instead of 50%+ leaving school and going to uni it should be the elite 5-10% like it used to be so that a degree certificate means something again to employers

And yet Michael Gove wants more people to attend university....

 

Though why would you expect any different from an education minister who says all schools should be hitting the target of 'good'. Their target of good to mean above average...

Edited October 9, 201311 yr by RabbitFurCoat

When I was unemployed for 2 years I did voluntary work in youth clubs, thats the sort of stuff that should be pushed, and I agree about helping the elderly, they are mostly dependant on family or neighbourly goodwill - and often thats not there.

 

The rest is impractical. Or as you say, taking away real jobs. I say if the country isnt willing to contribute more taxes to pay for litter collection and filling potholes (which is a skilled job, using specialist equipment, not something you can just turn up and do) then they shouldnt expect unlucky people to do it for less than the going rate. Ditto Tesco & co using free labour on unskilled work, that's immoral and a taxpayer freebie to massively rich companies. Now if they want to train up in management roles and train unemployed to use computer software, deal with customers that's an entirely different situation as people getting that training will very much have something useful to put on a CV. Stacking shelves isn't in any way useful for anything except keeping people involved who would otherwise be stuck at home, and who have limited opportunities jobwise due to personal issues and problems. Some supermarkets place these cases and get the pay paid for by the government, so that's acceptable.

 

I don't want to see a situation where paid workers get hours cut or don't get the overtime they rely on etc because someone on workfare is doing it for nothing, totally unacceptable and unfair on those in full time or part time paid work

 

But I do support in principle the idea of someone doing full time work after 2 years for a voluntary organisation or the helping pensioners in the community etc

And yet Michael Gove wants more people to attend university....

 

Though why would you expect any different from an education minister who says all schools should be hitting the target of 'good'. Their target of good to mean above average...

 

I am a tory but would describe myself as an independent one, i differ from the leadership on a number of issues, that being one of them

 

I want to see the right people going to uni, By that i don't mean people from private schools or rich backgrounds but the academic elite, AAA AAB students for example should be the ones going to uni, you can get into uni on D's in some courses or even bypass the system altogether and get in via foundation courses

 

There are not enough apprenticeships in Britain and that should be introduced more

In a bid to keep the unemployment rates down successive governments have lied to a whole generation and herded them sheep like into university, continual lowering of the entry standards, creation of more and more polytechnics into uni's, the growth in the number of courses that are not taken seriously by most employers, its a con, they are saddling youngsters with £20k worth of debt that in many cases will never be paid off

 

Anyone who has gone through the uni system and graduated deserves credit, not knocking them as they have shown they can research, study, do a dissertation etc but they have been lied to that a uni degree of any sort is a fast track to big money, its bollocks

 

Whole system needs reforming from top to bottom

 

Raise the bar in terms of grades needed for uni, get rid of the pointless courses, get the numbers down in a big big way and then when we have an elite uni system again scrap loans and bring in grants

Milliband on Watchdog now speaking to pitbull Robinson about the energy freeze.

Milliband on Watchdog now speaking to pitbull Robinson about the energy freeze.

 

It is wrong on so many levels, it is effectively a free party political broadcast for labour on a non politiics show

 

If they invite David Cameron on next week then great otherwise it lends further weight to the conspiracy theory that BBC is pro labour and biased towards them

They have E.On on next week and are having the energy secretary by the end of the season.

It is wrong on so many levels, it is effectively a free party political broadcast for labour on a non politiics show

 

If they invite David Cameron on next week then great otherwise it lends further weight to the conspiracy theory that BBC is pro labour and biased towards them

Yes, let's look at their main political presenters

 

Nick Robinson - a Tory at university

Michael Portillo - former Tory MP

David Dimbleby - former member of the Bullingdon Club, not known for their left-wing leanings

Andrew Neil - a Tory

 

 

In a bid to keep the unemployment rates down successive governments have lied to a whole generation and herded them sheep like into university, continual lowering of the entry standards, creation of more and more polytechnics into uni's, the growth in the number of courses that are not taken seriously by most employers, its a con, they are saddling youngsters with £20k worth of debt that in many cases will never be paid off

 

Anyone who has gone through the uni system and graduated deserves credit, not knocking them as they have shown they can research, study, do a dissertation etc but they have been lied to that a uni degree of any sort is a fast track to big money, its bollocks

 

Whole system needs reforming from top to bottom

 

Raise the bar in terms of grades needed for uni, get rid of the pointless courses, get the numbers down in a big big way and then when we have an elite uni system again scrap loans and bring in grants

1) No one actually thinks that any degree equals a great career, that's some bizarre fallacy of people who don't like the extension of the system.

 

2) They wouldn't be saddled with £20k of debt if the fees weren't sky high.

 

3) Why shouldn't foundation courses get you into uni?

In a bid to keep the unemployment rates down successive governments have lied to a whole generation and herded them sheep like into university, continual lowering of the entry standards, creation of more and more polytechnics into uni's, the growth in the number of courses that are not taken seriously by most employers, its a con, they are saddling youngsters with £20k worth of debt that in many cases will never be paid off

 

Anyone who has gone through the uni system and graduated deserves credit, not knocking them as they have shown they can research, study, do a dissertation etc but they have been lied to that a uni degree of any sort is a fast track to big money, its bollocks

 

Whole system needs reforming from top to bottom

 

Raise the bar in terms of grades needed for uni, get rid of the pointless courses, get the numbers down in a big big way and then when we have an elite uni system again scrap loans and bring in grants

Like Charlie says the £20k debt is the ridiculous £9k pa in fees. Feeling fairly smug not having to pay them.

 

The thing is not every uni course requires a dissertation and there are skills that would apply more to some disciplines than others so it's wrong to put a broad spectrum on it. I personally think the biggest problem with the University system is that it attempts to train you to be researchers rather than to go into the field outside of Higher Education. It's my primary criticism of the University of Dundee's BAcc Accountancy! There was so much emphasis on reading and understanding journal articles and then writing essays on that the practise fell by the way side. In an interview with PricewaterhouseCoopers the Partner in Tax said that Journal articles were of no use to them and they would far rather people learned how to pull together an I&E and the framework that governs it than some shitty theory written by an academic.

Yes, let's look at their main political presenters

 

Nick Robinson - a Tory at university

Michael Portillo - former Tory MP

David Dimbleby - former member of the Bullingdon Club, not known for their left-wing leanings

Andrew Neil - a Tory

 

People change radically in many cases between university and middle age

 

Portillo was a communist at university and then 20 years later was Maggie's attack dog until he lost his seat and his views became more mainstream, the ultra right wing Peter Hitchens was a communist in his 20s (he showed his members card in DM yesterday) so just because Robinson and Dimbleby were tories in their youth doesn't mean they are now, both are extremely impartial and fair broadcasters

 

In the case of Portillo now, his show is balanced out by having left winger Diane Abbott as his co presenter

 

 

1) No one actually thinks that any degree equals a great career, that's some bizarre fallacy of people who don't like the extension of the system.

 

2) They wouldn't be saddled with £20k of debt if the fees weren't sky high.

 

3) Why shouldn't foundation courses get you into uni?

 

The country cant afford to give free uni education to millions, its not practical, especially to courses that are considered 'soft options'

 

I would be happy to have free education for courses that are vital to the country like medicine, nursing, sciences, pharmacy, engineering, aero engineering, MBA, finance etc, those sort of courses are necessary and should be free but if people want to study arts, media, sociology, golf course management etc then they should have to pay tuition fees as those sort of courses are not vital to the country

 

With regards foundation courses, foundation courses are for people that are not bright enough to get into uni by traditional means, as i said in previous posts only the absolute brightest should be in uni imho

Like Charlie says the £20k debt is the ridiculous £9k pa in fees. Feeling fairly smug not having to pay them.

 

The thing is not every uni course requires a dissertation and there are skills that would apply more to some disciplines than others so it's wrong to put a broad spectrum on it. I personally think the biggest problem with the University system is that it attempts to train you to be researchers rather than to go into the field outside of Higher Education. It's my primary criticism of the University of Dundee's BAcc Accountancy! There was so much emphasis on reading and understanding journal articles and then writing essays on that the practise fell by the way side. In an interview with PricewaterhouseCoopers the Partner in Tax said that Journal articles were of no use to them and they would far rather people learned how to pull together an I&E and the framework that governs it than some shitty theory written by an academic.

 

Interesting facts, i stand corrected :)

The country cant afford to give free uni education to millions, its not practical, especially to courses that are considered 'soft options'

 

I would be happy to have free education for courses that are vital to the country like medicine, nursing, sciences, pharmacy, engineering, aero engineering, MBA, finance etc, those sort of courses are necessary and should be free but if people want to study arts, media, sociology, golf course management etc then they should have to pay tuition fees as those sort of courses are not vital to the country

 

With regards foundation courses, foundation courses are for people that are not bright enough to get into uni by traditional means, as i said in previous posts only the absolute brightest should be in uni imho

That's about horseshit, one of my friends is getting along perfectly fine in an engineering course having done the foundation last year because it teaches skills you don't learn in school that are far more applicable in university. He didn't get on with A-Levels, as many very bright people don't, and foundation courses are one of the few viable alternatives. The ridiculous restructuring of GCSEs is only going to mean that more people who could achieve amazing things slip through the net.

 

University courses, outside of those directly applicable to a job, have very little bearing on what's "useful" to the country (which is completely subjective anyway). You could easily have a Chemistry graduate competing with a History graduate for a job after university, why should one pay fees and not the other to get into that position?

That's about horseshit, one of my friends is getting along perfectly fine in an engineering course having done the foundation last year because it teaches skills you don't learn in school that are far more applicable in university. He didn't get on with A-Levels, as many very bright people don't, and foundation courses are one of the few viable alternatives. The ridiculous restructuring of GCSEs is only going to mean that more people who could achieve amazing things slip through the net.

 

University courses, outside of those directly applicable to a job, have very little bearing on what's "useful" to the country (which is completely subjective anyway). You could easily have a Chemistry graduate competing with a History graduate for a job after university, why should one pay fees and not the other to get into that position?

 

There can only be 1 national benchmark of talent though and that is A levels

 

If back in 1982 when I took my driving test if I had failed and then said to my examiner "I win go kart races I really am a good driver" it would not get me very far, the reason being the driving test is the benchmark of talent and ability

 

I would look at maybe some halfway house between 6th form/college and uni but I would not allow anyone on a uni course unless they scored AAA, AAB or in exceptional cases ABB

 

As for courses it is right there is a pecking order, should medicine be of the same standing as media studies? absolutely not

The difference being that the capacity to learn well at university is not solely shown by passing one set of exams testing a particular type of knowledge. The ability to drive safely is solely shown by passing the same test as everybody else.

The difference being that the capacity to learn well at university is not solely shown by passing one set of exams testing a particular type of knowledge. The ability to drive safely is solely shown by passing the same test as everybody else.

Precisely. Students with A Level results below the standard chosen by Craig have frequently shown themselves to be perfectly capable of getting an excellent degree. Of course I have introduced facts into the argument which will probably confuse him. That is why he would never have a chance of getting a science degree.

Hey, someone's been reading Craig's posts and made an article about them.

 

 

 

GETTING a degree is a complete waste of time, according to people full of regret about not going to university.

 

Embittered non-graduates claim degrees are hugely expensive and a massive waste of time, especially when you could go straight to work in an office, factory or meat storage facility.

 

Office manager Tom Logan said: “What’s the point in going to university for three years, surrounded by girls and subsidised entertainment?

 

“I’m glad I stayed at home with my parents. I was able to go straight from school into the work environment, where I will remain pretty much until I die.

 

“Most graduates end up with worthless degrees in Sociology & Watching TV or Astrology & Lesbianism Studies. Admittedly those are jokey examples which don’t really exist, but you get the idea.

 

“Also, having started work at 16 allows me to bang on about ‘hard graft’, as though spending 25 years slowly grinding my way up to a tedious middle-management job has taught me something profound about life.”

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society...e-2013082078800

Precisely. Students with A Level results below the standard chosen by Craig have frequently shown themselves to be perfectly capable of getting an excellent degree. Of course I have introduced facts into the argument which will probably confuse him. That is why he would never have a chance of getting a science degree.

 

We are pretty much the same age give or take a few years, so you will remember what uni was like in our era, only the academic elite went to uni and the entry benchmarks were ruthless, but coming out of uni with a degree meant you could write your own pay cheque virtually, it meant something, probably 5-10% of people left school and went to uni, that is what i want to go back to

 

With 50% going on to uni the stardust a uni degree had in our day has been totally eroded because degrees are two a penny, 5-10% going to uni will restore the value of a degree to what it was

Hey, someone's been reading Craig's posts and made an article about them.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society...e-2013082078800

 

I have never said it is a waste of time ;)

 

Just that an employer sees a degree on a cv now it is 'oh right, another one' whereas in my day 'omg i want that person and i want them now'