I have maintained all along that you cannot count against Salmond. He is by far the 'best' politician in the UK.

 

Right at the start of this referendum I predicted a Yes win purely based on what happened at the 2011 Scottish election. So far this seems to be mirroring the 2011 result. The SNP were behind right until the last minute when they took a narrow lead then on polling day utterly annihilated the competition.

At this stage in the 2011 election the SNP had an eleven point lead.

crikey all those swearwords! If it makes you feel any less repressed they (and Scotland as partner) helped themselves to a good portion of the world, got rich on the proceeds and which I am not in any way going to defend.

 

Whatever the lead-up to the events of 1707, and arguments over the cause, that's what the Scottish politicians did. The point I was (obviously badly) trying to make is that if Scotland trusts it's own future politicians to do a better job than they did in the past, vote yes. I'm very happy to hear Alex Salmond fully intends to take on the debt of RBS and HBOS - that's not come over at all, as I understand it the money invested in them by the UK taxpayer to keep them afloat is nowhere near paid back by the banks (and may never will be). Does the White Paper state clearly that the money paid out by the UK taxpayer will be proportionately paid back by the new independent Scotland? I can find no reference to that at all, it just mentions overall debt (as you mention), so your trust that is what will happen is reassuring.

 

As for the Yes campaign, watching the promo now, apparently Scotland will be one of the 20 richest countries in the world ahead of the rest of the UK, and is peopled by happy children in playgrounds and content students and well-off pensioners. Wow! The UK really is holding Scotland back! I'm surprised the Yes campaign isn't doing better. Of course that 7 billion annual profit for the financial industries doesnt take out the instant 50 or 60 billion still owed supporting the 2 banks (with Lloyds).

 

White Paper:

 

Lender of last resort to sterling will continue to be the UK. No "if agreed" just a factual statement. According to the White Paper the Bank Of England will be expected to bail out any Scottish banks to save Sterling, should the current or future crop of directors of banks be as completely useless as the last lot. It's not clear whether the Bank Of England has power over the Scottish banks to prevent them taking risks, but it's quite generous of Alex Salmond to allow Westminster to do that if so. And stupid of Westminster, if not. In the event of another crisis it would be the UK taxpayer that bails them out (again). According to the White Paper.

 

Do you not understand at all why that makes the rest of the UK nervous? This is not anti-Scotland feeling. We've just gone through a massive financial calamity thanks to banks, and we haven't recovered. That's "we" as in the UK, Scotland, Europe, North America and the World generally. Calling the pound Scotland's asset is not going it alone. Want to go it alone, fine, want to share out assets and debts equally, fine. No-one will object to that. want a foreign country as Scotland's safety-net, when it has the theoretical potential to do in the other country? Not so fine.

 

Not every Scottish person, incidentally, feels the same way you do about the British Government. Granted, a large proportion of them live outside Scotland and don't have the vote, but they still exist. For the record, I have little good to say about most UK governments in my lifetime, though that should be fairly obvious from my previous (unpopular to some) opinions.

 

This!

 

I can't believe people are seriously considering a Yes vote in the modern world, with huge countries such as China and Brazil and India leading the way, and with hundreds of years of modern history linking the two areas.

 

I hope you're right, Cassandra!

The problem that Salmond has is that it's far easier to win an election with multiple parties with a (let's face it) polarising personality than it is to win a referendum where you need over 50%. I'm in no position to judge from the other side of the border but I can't believe that there aren't voters who would be sympathetic to independence but can't stand Salmond, and no matter how much the Yes campaign insists this referendum is bigger than him (which it is, obviously) it's a difficult case to put across.

 

That and I'm expecting a No bounce after they get thrashed by Germany tonight.

There's so many people undecided regarding the campaign. I'm completely out of my depth when it comes to Politics which makes the voting even more difficult. The betting odds have Scotland to vote no at 2/5 and Scotland to vote Yes at 2/1 which is a massive improvement considering it was 7/1 last week.

 

I do think No will win overall but I can see it being within 3%.

Alex Salmond's personal ratings are actually pretty low atm (lower than Nicola Sturgeon's I think), so this doesn't seem like it has anything to do with his campaigning skills. This seems to be a rare case where people are genuinely putting personalities aside and deciding on the substance of the issue. And it seems most have decided the real big issues are "do you feel or Scottish or British?" and "do you want to be ruled by a southern Westminster elite?", rather than trivial crap about the currency (someone said aptly that the No campaign's obsession with the pound is like saying a couple who detest eachother would stay together just to keep the joint CD collection).

 

That said, can't help but wonder if this poll might actually be a blessing in disguise for the No side, since being shown independence ACTUALLY REALLY might happen might lead to some recent converts getting cold feet. Winning margin will probably be less than 5% eitherway.

The joint CD collection rarely has any bearing on the rates at which the wife would get a loan though.

That said, can't help but wonder if this poll might actually be a blessing in disguise for the No side, since being shown independence ACTUALLY REALLY might happen might lead to some recent converts getting cold feet.

That, and it'll probably jolt No voters who might have been casual about it into definitely going to vote - a Yes win on a low turnout due to No complacency was probably one of the likelier scenarios for a Yes win until now.

the better together campaign has been rubbish. Instead of going the "What have the Romans ever done for us" Monty Python route (eg National Health service, free education, welfare for the poor, fighting nazism, equality legislation, cultural classics etc etc etc) they got shoved on the defensive and are paying the price.

 

On the plus side, Gordon Brown, the man behind the the (FSO lack of) banking overseeing, and having a fair bit of a hand in the unbalanced UK budgets, sold off gold reserves cheap, and a recent beloved Prime Minister, will (if he retains his seat or doesn't stand down) become a Scottish MP. To be fair, he did keep the UK out of the euro, which appears to have been a good decision, of course.

Agreed that the 'better together' campaign has been awful; the whole debate has to be honest.

 

I don't think the issue of currency and monetary policy can be so easily swept under the carpet though. When I was in Scotland this summer the vast majority of Scots that I spoke to were either undecided or voting no based on the fact that the SNP had not satisfied their doubts over how this would work after a yes vote.

Someone at Better Together please make a campaign point of the SNP's tax proposals.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/...-prime-minister

Someone at Better Together please make a campaign point of the SNP's tax proposals.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/...-prime-minister

You seem to be assuming that the SNP would win the first post-independence election.

You seem to be assuming that the SNP would win the first post-independence election.

I am, yes.

good luck to Scotland if Gordon Brown is involved in anything financial after the next election in Scotland. As the lovely little youtube clip attached to article reminds us of just how much he did for bankers, banks and debt. Imagine a world where he had been in charge of the Scottish economy, not the UK's, remember how badly the main Scottish banks are indebted to the UK taxpayer, and then hypothesise what might have happened to an independant Scotland in that scenario.

 

Pure fantasy, of course....

You seem to be assuming that the SNP would win the first post-independence election.

 

Exactly. It's not a referendum on neverending SNP rule, and the "Better Together" side's attempts to make it so have not worked.

 

In any case, it's a total blind alley for Labour to try to claim they'll be fairer to the poor than the SNP. I've seen that the SNP in the last few days have been having a field day with Labour's claims to be "tougher than the Tories on welfare".

Edited September 8, 201410 yr by Danny

I think this poll has been designed by the No campaign to scare people but thats just my conspiracy theory.

 

Makes the final 10 days exciting though!

 

Papers full of 10 days to save the union haha!

 

Theres also a massive phrase on Belfast mountain (that can be seen throughout the city) Scotland YES!! This will have as much repercussions for Ireland as Scotland. Why does there seem to be a constitutional crisis in the UK every 100 years lol

Edited September 8, 201410 yr by steve201

I think this poll has been designed by the No campaign to scare people but thats just my conspiracy theory.

Very unlikely - YouGov's an independent polling firm, and it was for The Times. If the pressure were going in any direction, oddly enough it would be for independence: Rupert Murdoch is bizarrely pro-indy.

Theres also a massive phrase on Belfast mountain (that can be seen throughout the city) Scotland YES!! This will have as much repercussions for Ireland as Scotland. Why does there seem to be a constitutional crisis in the UK every 100 years lol

 

On the Cavehill? If so, what side?

 

There was a great Referendum-themed stand-up show on BBC1 at the weekend. The best joke of the night came from the surprisingly restrained by his standards Frankie Boyle - "One of the great things about being pro-independence is I get maybe half a dozen tweets a day telling me that I don't understand economics from Rangers fans".

Very unlikely - YouGov's an independent polling firm, and it was for The Times. If the pressure were going in any direction, oddly enough it would be for independence: Rupert Murdoch is bizarrely pro-indy.

 

But I thought he same with the new royal baby today too :P!!

 

The Mirror today was quite biased and scaremongering with its story of the queen being the last queen of Scotland, they only wrote the truth of the White Paper in a small sentence in the main story of the paper !

On the Cavehill? If so, what side?

 

There was a great Referendum-themed stand-up show on BBC1 at the weekend. The best joke of the night came from the surprisingly restrained by his standards Frankie Boyle - "One of the great things about being pro-independence is I get maybe half a dozen tweets a day telling me that I don't understand economics from Rangers fans".

 

No it's on the Black Mountain side - just seen it today.

 

I wouldn't worry about loyalists on twitter - they don't have much economic literacy and politically care more about something insignificant like a flat on city hall!

Exactly. It's not a referendum on neverending SNP rule, and the "Better Together" side's attempts to make it so have not worked.

 

In any case, it's a total blind alley for Labour to try to claim they'll be fairer to the poor than the SNP. I've seen that the SNP in the last few days have been having a field day with Labour's claims to be "tougher than the Tories on welfare".

Not endless rule, no. But only a fool would bet against the SNP winning the next Scottish election if the country votes Yes.

 

Brainless rhetoric is one thing (and you have no idea how hacked off I get with Reeves when she says crap like that) but it's surely preferable to actual, harmful policy. What was the soundbite from that article? Brown is a socialist who pretended to be an economic liberal, Salmond is a liberal pretending to be a socialist.