Well, he is the person who has to find the extra few billion for it. As a rule you're probably never going to find a Shadow Chancellor automatically in favour of adding something new costing billions to the budget.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/m...il-water-energy

 

The Progress Tendency are fighting back already I see. Will Miliband finally have discovered the courage to see them off this time, and tell them that if they believe "deficit control, pay restraint, making priorities for what we spend money on" is so important then there's plenty of space on the Tory benches?

Edited May 5, 201411 yr by Danny

Believing Labour shouldn't proscribe price controls as a solution to everything isn't exactly a Tory value. And if you think believing the sums should add up at some point (which is Obama's plan, before you cite him as someone who 'rebelled against the consensus' - there's a difference between the deficit being the highest priority and the deficit being something that needs sorting in the medium/long-term. Making out that anyone who thinks it's an issue automatically think it's the highest issue is presenting a bit of a false choice.) is an implicitly Tory value then you've effectively shrugged off most of the nation as Tory.

Believing Labour shouldn't proscribe price controls as a solution to everything isn't exactly a Tory value. And if you think believing the sums should add up at some point (which is Obama's plan, before you cite him as someone who 'rebelled against the consensus' - there's a difference between the deficit being the highest priority and the deficit being something that needs sorting in the medium/long-term. Making out that anyone who thinks it's an issue automatically think it's the highest issue is presenting a bit of a false choice.) is an implicitly Tory value then you've effectively shrugged off most of the nation as Tory.

 

I feel we've pretty much had this discussion before, but "the public believe the sums should add up at some point" =/= "the public believe that the sums should be made to add up no matter what the costs on public services and normal people are". Caroline Flint in that article explicitly says she believes the deficit is equally important as inequality (and I've heard other Progress Tendency people say they think it's more important), and that is absolutely not the view any self-respecting left-winger would ever express, and I don't believe it's what the public think, as countless opinion polls testify to whenever people are asked to rank how big an issue they view the deficit to be against other issues.

Edited May 6, 201411 yr by Danny

Saying we should speak as strongly on those issues as we do on inequality isn't necessarily saying they're equally important - it's more about making sure we aren't pigeonholed as the party that only talk about inequality, and to hell with how we pay for the solutions to it. It's a combined message that's worked before - I really don't think there are many people outside the TUSC tendency that hear us talk about both and think 'Tories in disguise'.

 

Of course, I've been over what I think people DO hear when they hear Ed talk about both before, so I think Caroline's only half right on this one.

I disagree with something that political poll expert Peter Kellner said on Sky News earlier. Apparently some polls today show the Tories and Labour "neck and neck" but they didn't give any figures. He said that, exactly a year to the date before the next GE, we dont know who is likely to win. No but we didn't know in 2010 though did we Peter? A couple of others said the same. A woman poll analyst said this would be the most interesting election in her lifetime and another said there's plenty to change the polls before polling day, Euro election results, Scottish referendum, party conferences, next year's Tory budget, possible debates.

Edited May 7, 201411 yr by Common Sense

A year before the last election it was pretty clear that Labour would not win. Of course, unlike now, we couldn't be certain then that we were a year from the next election.

The polls are indeed looking very bad for Labour atm -- two polls yesterday put their lead at just 1%, and average ratings are now the lowest since Ed Miliband became leader.

 

It's a shame because this is happening just when Labour look like they might FINALLY be getting their act together -- in presumably some kind of freak accident, they've managed to come up with some policies (and quite good ones at that). But it's going to take a lot of time to undo the damage done by 4 years of drift and throwing their own supporters under a bus. I fear most people have pretty much stopped listening to them since they're so bored of hearing robotic, inauthentic soundbites from Labour spokespeople, or endless bitching about the "out-of-touch Tories" without offering any alternatives of their own. The argument they seem to be creeping towards - "the economy just systemically showers the fat cats with goodies while leaving everyone else in the cold" - has a lot of potential to resonate and possibly even win the election for them, but it will take months of them making that argument again and again to dig themselves out of the hole they're in, and not give in after a week like they usually do.

A year before the last election it was pretty clear that Labour would not win. Of course, unlike now, we couldn't be certain then that we were a year from the next election.

 

Yes I see what you mean. Everything was pointing towards a hung parliament and it's looking that way now.

Edited May 7, 201411 yr by Common Sense

Labour imo would be well ahead without Ed. If his brother was leader I bet they'd be 10 points ahead now. People just can't warm to him. It should be about policies for the next 5 years and not the leader but people are electing a Prime Minister. I just can't see him as PM on the world stage and many floating voters must feel the same. Can't see what they've got to lose by ditching him now and putting Yvette Cooper in charge as there's still a year to go. He could resign for personal reasons or something. Any later and of course it looks like panicking.

Edited May 7, 201411 yr by Common Sense

Scratch everything I said about Labour getting their act together. I just saw this painful attempt at a political "broadcast":

 

Edited May 7, 201411 yr by Danny

I don't know what to say.

I don't know what to say.

 

LOL. That must be a first. :lol:

Actually I do, but I'm not really at liberty to.

I... I don't get why they've made that.

It's very funny in places but there is no use slagging the Tories and Clegg off if they're not going to say what they would do instead which is what a party political broadcast is supposed to be,

It's very funny in places but there is no use slagging the Tories and Clegg off if they're not going to say what they would do instead which is what a party political broadcast is supposed to be,

 

Exactly! It would've maybe been OK if they just spent a minute on that "skit" and then spent the rest of the ad talking about their own policies. But spending the whole thing attacking your opponents just makes it look like you've got nothing positive to say about your own party and your own plans. I really hope we're not in for a repeat of the terrible and counter-productive 2010 election campaign where both the Tories and Labour just spent the whole thing saying how evil and/or incompetent the other side was.

Labour's choice of issues - or, more specifically, the issues they did not choose - were the most depressing. There was nothing about the demonisation of people on benefits. Of course we all know that that is because Labour don't have the courage to challenge the Tories - and their cheer leaders in the press - over the rubbish they have been peddling for the last four years.

Labour's choice of issues - or, more specifically, the issues they did not choose - were the most depressing. There was nothing about the demonisation of people on benefits.

Did you miss the bit about them targeting those on disability benefit then?

Did you miss the bit about them targeting those on disability benefit then?

 

 

Labour started the tougher testing for Incapacity benefit and employed Atos before they left office so they can't really say very much. If they get in I doubt they'll change much.