That's a good point.

 

Are Spotify really going to sift through all that data, see how many times each particular user has streamed a song in a day, and then discount any streams over 10 in a 24 hour period, for EACH user?

 

Won't IP addresses do that on their behalf? Each song will have a virtual 'barcode' in order for it to register a 'sale' towards the charts so 10+ plays from the same user account and/or IP address won't be counted?

I'm pretty sure they have a computer to check that, not some member of staff having to go through them all.

I know that :lol:

 

But because the data has to be analysed per user, it makes it much more complicated.

 

I really can't see how they can have this ready for Sunday lunchtime if the tracking period ends at midnight Saturday.

 

 

I really can't see how they can have this ready for Sunday lunchtime if the tracking period ends at midnight Saturday.

 

I'm sure the OCC have trialled this with the streaming companies for months now to ensure that everything is in place - It's not going to come as a surprise to any of the streaming companies the deadline when they need to provide their data.

FYI, in their weekly email last night, ChartsPlus confirm they will be carrying the Streaming T100 from next week (or the week after with a catch-up, if time doesn't permit next week). :)

Won't IP addresses do that on their behalf? Each song will have a virtual 'barcode' in order for it to register a 'sale' towards the charts so 10+ plays from the same user account and/or IP address won't be counted?

 

 

Perhaps monitoring IP addresses will reduce the impact of people fixing the charts, but it can't prevent it.

Just like it's not difficult to circumvent region-restricted internet content or streaming content, it won't be difficult for people to circumvent the IP checks. It's not difficult to use multiple random IPs. It would be easy to change IP after every 10 streams ad infinitum.

It's just one weakness of using streaming in the official charts.

Sure, people could (and actually do) go out and buy multiple copies of singles in an attempt to boost chart positions, but that at least was costing them money, limiting the amount each person would be prepared to buy. Now it will be easy to set up thousands of streams per person, per week, at no cost at all.

Whether people actually bother is another question. I know I can't be arsed.

 

I haven't heard of this being a problem in other countries where streaming has already been a big part of charting, so perhaps they have more soffisticated means of preventing a few streamers impacting the charts than only checking IPs

Edited July 3, 201410 yr by bobmoo79

FYI, here is a dropbox link to my 2014 streaming chart spreadsheet :

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9lrq7mtlaqw4ae/S...ing%202014.xlsx

 

If you look up fanbase acts like The Vamps & 5SOS, you can see their streaming positions tend to be relatively low, so I suggest fears over multiple-stream hyping are greatly exaggerated.

 

Unfortunately, what is clearly illustrated is the glacially slow pace of the streaming chart, although that is no surprise to us chart anoraks. :P

Perhaps monitoring IP addresses will reduce the impact of people fixing the charts, but it can't prevent it.

Just like it's not difficult to circumvent region-restricted internet content or streaming content, it won't be difficult for people to circumvent the IP checks. It's not difficult to use multiple random IPs. It would be easy to change IP after every 10 streams ad infinitum.

It's just one weakness of using streaming in the official charts.

Sure, people could (and actually do) go out and buy multiple copies of singles in an attempt to boost chart positions, but that at least was costing them money, limiting the amount each person would be prepared to buy. Now it will be easy to set up thousands of streams per person, per week, at no cost at all.

Whether people actually bother is another question. I know I can't be arsed.

 

I haven't heard of this being a problem in other countries where streaming has already been a big part of charting, so perhaps they have more soffisticated means of preventing a few streamers impacting the charts than only checking IPs

 

The method of preventing a few streamers impacting the charts is that it takes 100 streams to register 1 sale. You'd need a LOT of people dedicated to 'fixing' the charts this way for it to make any impact.

The method of preventing a few streamers impacting the charts is that it takes 100 streams to register 1 sale. You'd need a LOT of people dedicated to 'fixing' the charts this way for it to make any impact.

If you played a four-minute song 24 hours per day for a whole week that would generate 25 "sales". Of course, if you set it up to play just 30 seconds each time, it would generate 200 "sales". So, it is unlikely to be a problem if just one person does it. If a large number of people do it for the same song on the other hand, it could be significant.

The method of preventing a few streamers impacting the charts is that it takes 100 streams to register 1 sale. You'd need a LOT of people dedicated to 'fixing' the charts this way for it to make any impact.

 

Plus it would be so obvious what was going on, that the OCC could easily thwart them.

Lol at Oliver Heldens a NE at 61 in the streaming chart - record companies will not like this next few months not being able to pick the release week to get to No1 after 8 weeks of preorders help!! How will they manipulate the chart now?!

 

Yeah, I'm wondering what they'll do too. Maybe not so much of a problem now, but what about in 12 months when sales are lower and streams are higher?

 

I think they might put songs for streaming a couple of weeks early, so by the time they get released for downloads the song should be getting high streams to help it debut/climb to #1. Quite a lot of hits like Hideaway, Jack, etc. were up for streaming early, so I don't think it'd hurt the sales much.

 

Also, in reference to the other discussion, Spotify will have had measures to prevent people fixing their charts for years already, even before the OCC had anything to do with them. It's a pretty basic and essential thing for streaming sites to do. I think Youtube started preventing spam views back in 2007 at least, maybe before.

Edited July 3, 201410 yr by Eric_Blob

Or they might hold back streams too :(

...that is what they already do. They're moving AWAY from that.

So are they releasing more songs immediately to streaming sites before download release?

I see there have only been 6 streaming #1's in 2014, in complete contrast to the singles chart!

 

Happy : 1w

Timber : 3w

Rather Be : 11w (non-consec)

All Of Me : 2w (non-consec)

Waves : 8w

Sing : 1w

 

An important factor. Do we know the ratio/percentage of Streaming to be included with actual sales by the chart company? For instance on the Ultimate UK Chart, we use 5% Streaming/5% Airplay to the Download factor. I think Big Top 40 is still only using iTunes sales v airplay (in a something like 75:25 ratio) & they haven't started including streaming yet.

An important factor. Do we know the ratio/percentage of Streaming to be included with actual sales by the chart company? For instance on the Ultimate UK Chart, we use 5% Streaming/5% Airplay to the Download factor. I think Big Top 40 is still only using iTunes sales v airplay (in a something like 75:25 ratio) & they haven't started including streaming yet.

100 streams = one "sale".

100 streams = one "sale".

So, the difference is very minimal indeed & the lesser as we get further down the Top 40.

So, the difference is very minimal indeed & the lesser as we get further down the Top 40.

 

The effect is bigger lower down the chart as sales are closer together.

The effect is bigger lower down the chart as sales are closer together.

 

Streaming might only be 10% for the top places, but I suspect it could be getting on for 50% when you get down to #200 - presumably we'll get a better idea of this from the MW sales commentary next week.

Edited July 4, 201410 yr by Vidcapper

So are they releasing more songs immediately to streaming sites before download release?

 

 

Yes, well some labels are, it makes sense, what with the videos also already out in some cases on mtv