What's interesting about that latest poll is that Jeremy Corbyn is back at net disapproval rating, having had a bump into net positive since the election. I'm not sure what he's done over the recess to cause such a drop - the only potential negative things that could've played a part were -

 

a) His response to the Venezuelan crisis and his refusal to publicly denounce the anti-democratic policies of President Maduro, whom Corbyn has previous been rather chummy with (instead taking the "Trump option" by appropriating blame to both sides)

b) the removal of Sarah Champion as shadow minister following her article on the exploitation of women by rape gangs.

d) Further flip-flopping over Brexit. Nothing new to those who follow politics closely but it's gradually unravelling.

I've always found that a particularly daft phrase. There's no point in levying taxes and then not spending the money. Equally, if a government wants to spend money, they have to raise it. OTOH, maybe people don't want decent schools, hospitals etc.

 

It's not the fact of it, but the amount - obviously the more ambitious a gov'ts spending plans, the more taxes have to be raised to pay for them. That naturally alarms most those with more to lose.

 

d) Further flip-flopping over Brexit. Nothing new to those who follow politics closely but it's gradually unravelling.

 

Both sides playing hardball in the the negotiations is *not* 'Brexit unraveling'. No judgement made on Brexit's performance can legitimately be made until it's actually been in place for several years - around the time of the 2022 general election at earliest, I suggest.

 

All anyone can do currently is speculate, influenced by their position on the issue.

 

Yeah, no.

 

When busineas leaders say it is a disater, investment slowig down, pound reaching Euro paroty, even BEFORE we leave, it is vlear it is a disaster. Sorry. You. Were. Duped.

It's not the fact of it, but the amount - obviously the more ambitious a gov'ts spending plans, the more taxes have to be raised to pay for them. That naturally alarms most those with more to lose.

But it is invariably used to put off people who are less likely to use. Indeed, it is targeted at the very people who would benefit from improved public services. It is, and always has been, one massive con.

Yeah, no.

 

When busineas leaders say it is a disater, investment slowig down, pound reaching Euro paroty, even BEFORE we leave, it is vlear it is a disaster. Sorry. You. Were. Duped.

 

Some do say that, others don't - who should we believe?

 

I was certainly not duped - I considered it worth even a high price to regain our economic freedom.

Some do say that, others don't - who should we believe?

 

I was certainly not duped - I considered it worth even a high price to regain our economic freedom.

Freedom to do what exactly?

What deeply damaging legislation is first on the bonfire??

 

Perhaps the one that says pillows cannot be flammable????

Dennis Skinner? At 85, there aren't many senior to him...

 

Has he defected to the Tories, then? Didn't see that one coming I must say!

 

The great thing about people stating that they are "prepared to pay a high price to get our freedom" is that what they really mean is

 

"I'm prepared for the rest of you to pay a high price for what I consider freedom because it won't affect me much while I've got a triple-lock/benefits/shit-loads of money" or "As long as it's gets rid of the foreigners, I don't care" (PS, it won't)

 

One or t'other...

 

 

Freedom to do what exactly?

 

Well for a start, strike trade agreements without needing the approval of 27 other countries

 

Has he defected to the Tories, then? Didn't see that one coming I must say!

 

The great thing about people stating that they are "prepared to pay a high price to get our freedom" is that what they really mean is

 

"I'm prepared for the rest of you to pay a high price for what I consider freedom because it won't affect me much while I've got a triple-lock/benefits/shit-loads of money" or "As long as it's gets rid of the foreigners, I don't care" (PS, it won't)

 

When will you Remainers get it into your heads that it's *NOT* about 'getting rid of foreigners'!

 

Then what IS it about, Little Englander?

 

It just seems like some fairytale of UK supremity, getting rid o foreigners, which it won't, and damaging the country beyond repair whilst ignoring Scotland and N.I. For a supposed union to survive, if 2/4s of it vote one way and 2/4s the other, there should be no change to the status quo, no mater the most populous areas. Otherwisw, it is colonialism dressed up. Sorry.

I am NOT prepared to pay this high price for your Little England ego.

Well for a start, strike trade agreements without needing the approval of 27 other countries

When will you Remainers get it into your heads that it's *NOT* about 'getting rid of foreigners'!

And how do you think tiddly little island will manage to negotiate a better trade deal than the EU? The EU has a larger population than the USA which puts it in a position of strength. The UK has a population lower than some individual US states. OK, maybe we can get a better trade deal with Vanuatu but I doubt that will benefit us much.

 

 

Oh, and perhaps you would like to convince Mrs Mayhem that this is nothing to do with getting rid of foreigners.

It just seems like some fairytale of UK supremity, getting rid o foreigners, which it won't, and damaging the country beyond repair

 

The same old speculation - it's getting very boring now.

 

whilst ignoring Scotland and N.I. For a supposed union to survive, if 2/4s of it vote one way and 2/4s the other, there should be no change to the status quo, no mater the most populous areas. Otherwisw, it is colonialism dressed up. Sorry.

Need I remind you that the Scots recently had the chance to break away from the UK, but chose not to?

 

I am NOT prepared to pay this high price for your Little England ego.

 

Ah, the alternative derogatory term when 'xenophobe' has failed. :rolleyes:

 

Have you forgotten that we are still around the 7th largest economy in the world - hardly 'little'!

 

And how do you think tiddly little island will manage to negotiate a better trade deal than the EU? The EU has a larger population than the USA which puts it in a position of strength. The UK has a population lower than some individual US states. OK, maybe we can get a better trade deal with Vanuatu but I doubt that will benefit us much.

Oh, and perhaps you would like to convince Mrs Mayhem that this is nothing to do with getting rid of foreigners.

 

Population has little to do with economic strength - Ethiopia has a population of 105m, but no-one would claim they are an economic powerhouse. :P

Population has little to do with economic strength - Ethiopia has a population of 105m, but no-one would claim they are an economic powerhouse. :P

Then look at the GDP of the EU, the USA and the UK. This is not difficult.

Then look at the GDP of the EU, the USA and the UK. This is not difficult.

 

The EU is not a country, therefore a one-on-one comparison is not valid, besides the EU's GDP will necessarily include the UK's, currently.

 

The EU is not a country, therefore a one-on-one comparison is not valid, besides the EU's GDP will necessarily include the UK's, currently.

...then deduct the UK's figure from the EU total? Whichever way you look at it, the original point was that the size of the EU's economy puts it in a position of strength in negotiations. This is inarguable. Presumably you'd expect the UK to hold most of the cards when it comes to negotiating a trade deal with Serbia, for example.

 

It's almost impressive how you're trying to stall the argument.

...then deduct the UK's figure from the EU total? Whichever way you look at it, the original point was that the size of the EU's economy puts it in a position of strength in negotiations. This is inarguable. Presumably you'd expect the UK to hold most of the cards when it comes to negotiating a trade deal with Serbia, for example.

 

It's almost impressive how you're trying to stall the argument.

 

There is no argument here, merely a repetitive assertion the the UK will be worse off out of the EU.

 

That cannot be proven one way or the other until at least several years after we leave, so why speculate?

Edited August 23, 20177 yr by vidcapper

What you fail to mention was the FIFTH largest in the world BEFORE this misinformed voteand groundswell of ignorance and ignoring of experts. P.s they are experts for a reason ;)

 

If you can call us remoaners, an undemocratic slur, I can call you a Little Englander. You don't like it when the shoe flops on the other foot eh? :)

 

 

The UK economy is almost at recession levels ALREADY.

 

I think that is proof enough?o

 

Wage growth the worst for a generation, purchasing power the worst for the same time. Is it the fault of Brexit, Mad May and ultra right bast*rd Tories or ... both?

 

Yes, it voted to stay in a REFORMED UK with more powers and MORE RESPECT.

 

May I remind you how the polls tipped to independence following that grubby little vote ignoring 1/2 of the Union? :) (Both in % numbers and in country terms...) You cannot deny this ignoring of 40%. It is undemocratic.

Edited August 23, 20177 yr by MoistSummerFruit

What you fail to mention was the FIFTH largest in the world BEFORE this misinformed voteand groundswell of ignorance and ignoring of experts. P.s they are experts for a reason ;)

 

If you can call us remoaners, an undemocratic slur, I can call you a Little Englander. You don't like it when the shoe flops on the other foot eh? :)

 

The thing with experts is - they come up with whatever answers their paymasters want. :P

 

Being called a 'Little Englander' doesn't bother me, since I know that's not why *I* voted to Leave'. It's not being part of any trading bloc that I oppose - just *this* one.

 

The UK economy is almost at recession levels ALREADY.

 

I think that is proof enough?o

 

But how can something that hasn't even happened yet, be responsible for that? :teresa:

 

Wage growth the worst for a generation, purchasing power the worst for the same time. Is it the fault of Brexit, Mad May and ultra right bast*rd Tories or ... both?

Austerity measures were in place long before Brexit became an issue.

 

Yes, it voted to stay in a REFORMED UK with more powers and MORE RESPECT.

 

May I remind you how the polls tipped to independence following that grubby little vote ignoring 1/2 of the Union? :) (Both in % numbers and in country terms...) You cannot deny this ignoring of 40%. It is undemocratic.

 

Except that the SNP vote in the last GE dropped from 50% to 37%, and they lost 21 MP's - how is that a sign of 'the polls tipping towards independence'? :rolleyes: