Quite - so Qassandra, after reading that article, are these really the people you trust to know how to win an election, any more than Corbyn knows how to??

 

I'm genuinely struggling to see who would vote for the party outlined in that article in the current political climate, apart from a handful of socially liberal City workers.

I don't imagine anyone responsible for election strategy would have the sense to brief that to The Times at this stage. That said, Ed Mliband did literally brief his stuff on the NHS as 'weaponising' it as an issue, so I'm possibly being too hopeful.

 

Nonetheless, yes - but only very slightly more. We're talking absolute basement when it comes to Corbyn for election strategy.

One of the key comments about EU Leave voters who were Labour inclining was that they had no idea what the Labour Party stood for. Given neither do the Labour Party know what they stand for that's hardly surprising.

 

Labour either listen to the MP's who were elected to represent them, or listen to the £3 Johnny Come Latelys (and some lefty activists).

 

So that's two disastrous Miliband policies for both the country and the Labour Party: the £3 vote, and the targeting of the Libdems instead of the Tories. That's all without even being leader of the country that is fragmenting before our eyes.

 

Let us all know when Labour make a decision on what they want to do, and what they stand for. In the meantime they will be viewed as irrelevant as the joyous remarks about the Libdems last year. A year is a very long time in politics...

 

 

 

 

It would be a lot easier to agree with you if you weren't so salty about being reduced to eight MPs.

It would be a lot easier to agree with you if you weren't so salty about being reduced to eight MPs.

Are you trying to suggest that Tory gains from the Lib Dems caused by people switching from Lib Dem to Labour have been a good thing?

Labour had barely anything to say about the Lib Dems last year. Are we really suggesting that the Lib Dem wipeout in Devon last year came because people were keeping in mind jokes Ed Miliband was making in 2011?

Are you trying to suggest that Tory gains from the Lib Dems caused by people switching from Lib Dem to Labour have been a good thing?

Not in the slightest, I'm just intensely bored of the same old line about the poor, innocent Lib Dems getting shot by both sides.

So now Angela Eagle and Owen Smith are apparently at odds (I did see this on the Daily Fail sidebar of shame btw) as to who should make the challenge. I think the longer this drags on the more secure Corbyn is. What an utter farce.

So now Angela Eagle and Owen Smith are apparently at odds (I did see this on the Daily Fail sidebar of shame btw) as to who should make the challenge. I think the longer this drags on the more secure Corbyn is. What an utter farce.

 

That's because it seems to finally be dawning on Labour MPs that "Corbyn isn't doing as well as he should" is not at all the same thing as "there is someone else available who would do better than Corbyn".

 

What the MPs did last week is the equivalent of someone who's not happy with their flat, suddenly waking up in a strop and just deciding to move out, before they've got any alternative accommodation lined up. Completely amateurish - and yet we're supposed to believe these people have the competence to lead the party effectively and to win a general election?

In fairness, I think the main reason nobody's made the challenge yet is because to begin with they were hoping it would lead to Corbyn stepping down rather than a direct contest, and since then because Watson's been negotiating to see if an open contest without Corbyn is at all possible (otherwise one of the two would've just stood anyway by now). A contest vs Corbyn would pretty much be the worst outcome as it would guarantee a split, come what may.

In work today, I had a minor argument with someone who claimed that the proposed Corbyn coup was a ploy to get rid of him before the Chilcott Papers were released, as Corbyn would be more critical of Blair's involvement that any potential other Labour leader. Sigh.

From the way Blair has been temporarily on leave from Mordor to tour the media circuit in the UK, he must be fairly confident of a Chilcot whitewash and therefore I find it hard to believe that this is related to the embarrassing coup and challenge to Corbyn's (very weak) leadership.

Not in the slightest, I'm just intensely bored of the same old line about the poor, innocent Lib Dems getting shot by both sides.

 

Poor Libdems. Poor Labour. Poor country.

 

A pity the same energy that went into destroying the Libdems wasn't given to the EU Remain campaign and getting rid of the Tories. What goes around comes around.

 

Tragically for all of us.

Not in the slightest, I'm just intensely bored of the same old line about the poor, innocent Lib Dems getting shot by both sides.

You mean the way some of were bored with hearing people crowing about the possibility of destroying a mainstream political party? The current situation in the US shows just how unappealing a two-party system can be.

Poor Libdems. Poor Labour. Poor country.

 

A pity the same energy that went into destroying the Libdems wasn't given to the EU Remain campaign and getting rid of the Tories. What goes around comes around.

 

Tragically for all of us.

For the majority of our party, it did. And then some. Shame the leader wasn't playing ball.

The only people who put energy into destroying the LibDems were the LibDems. Time to get a grip pal. You made yourselves unelectable by getting into bed with a party many voted for you to keep out. That's how you lost all but the Northern Isles in Scotland.

 

If you can't accept that the coalition was a significant part of your undoing then you're going to be stuck in the same cycle as Scottish Labour.

The only people who put energy into destroying the LibDems were the LibDems. Time to get a grip pal. You made yourselves unelectable by getting into bed with a party many voted for you to keep out. That's how you lost all but the Northern Isles in Scotland.

 

If you can't accept that the coalition was a significant part of your undoing then you're going to be stuck in the same cycle as Scottish Labour.

Nobody has yet come close to convincing me that there was any alternative after the 2010 election result. The party had been advocating an electoral system that would have made coalitions a strong possibility for decades. Turning down a coalition at the first opportunity would have been portrayed as running scared from any sort of responsibility - you know, like Boris Johnson..

Nobody has yet come close to convincing me that there was any alternative after the 2010 election result. The party had been advocating an electoral system that would have made coalitions a strong possibility for decades. Turning down a coalition at the first opportunity would have been portrayed as running scared from any sort of responsibility - you know, like Boris Johnson..

There wasn't an alternative, but LibDems can't pretend that it didn't have an impact. And while history will be kinder to them going forwards as we prepare for an ultra right wing Tory onslaught, at this moment in time the fight back won't begin until lessons are learned from the coalition and how poorly they fought an election campaign based on it.

Nobody has yet come close to convincing me that there was any alternative after the 2010 election result. The party had been advocating an electoral system that would have made coalitions a strong possibility for decades. Turning down a coalition at the first opportunity would have been portrayed as running scared from any sort of responsibility - you know, like Boris Johnson..

Accepting the Conservative offer to let them vote against tuition fees probably wouldn't have saved the Lib Dems from losing popularity, but it probably would have saved them from where they are now.

Of course going into bed with the Tories did the Libdems in. As Suedey says though, they had no other option, that's what the electorate voted for. They couldnt go with Labour (the country had just spoken on the banking crisis mess, Iraq and much else and decided quite rightly that Labour were discredited), they couldn't govern alone, so they were stuffed effectively from that point onwards. The country needed stability. But the media and the other two parties did everything to make sure they took all of the blame for a host of issues and policies not of their making, and one policy created by the other two in particular. It's pure hypocrisy not to see that they were royally stitched up. Especially when all of the catastrophes heaped on the UK were A) Labour policy and B) Tory policy or C) some degree of world events. D) Libdem policy has caused no national nor european catastrophes, and in fact had the other twatty party leaders followed the Libdem's (under Charles Kennedy's) policies, could have avoided at least one of them which has now had direct consequences on the EU referendum (refugees).

 

Just as the electorate have now voted for something else not all of us wanted and which Labour in particular, and the UK specifically, is going to pay for.

 

It, as I say endlessly, is democracy. Party-supporting comments on here still seem to have a problem with whole issues of SCALE. I stand by every comment I've ever made on Buzzjack, and whaddya know, most of my doom-laden cynical comments have turned out to be fairly on the mark.

 

The only thing people hate more than a smart arse, of course, is a smart arse who's right and reminds everyone about it :P

 

PS I'm not a "You" made yourselves unelectable. I didn't vote for the Libdems under Clegg. I didn't vote for anyone in that election, for the first time ever. I'm not a party member, never have been. Just someone who isn't fooled by bullshit party-line rhetoric, I prefer actual facts.

There wasn't an alternative, but LibDems can't pretend that it didn't have an impact. And while history will be kinder to them going forwards as we prepare for an ultra right wing Tory onslaught, at this moment in time the fight back won't begin until lessons are learned from the coalition and how poorly they fought an election campaign based on it.

I can't disagree about the election campaign. They allowed the Tories to claim the credit for the coalition's most popular policies (the increased personable allowance and the pupil premium). They should have done more in their time in government to ensure they got the credit they were due, but were too keen to portray everything as a coalition achievement. The Tories had no such scruples.