Unions should be encouraged to have power and work with corp, they should not be demonised, as has happened for too long. Thatcher's reforms on unions may have been necessary at the time but it's swung too far the other way.

 

Incidentally, preventing left excesses (though I do consider myself pretty left) is one of the reasons why I'm a LD member, to help facilitate my preferred government (or rather dream if they'd all just stop damn fighting and annihilate the far-right already), a left Labour with Liberal input via either coalition or supply.

Unions should be encouraged to have power and work with corp, they should not be demonised, as has happened for too long. Thatcher's reforms on unions may have been necessary at the time but it's swung too far the other way.

 

Incidentally, preventing left excesses (though I do consider myself pretty left) is one of the reasons why I'm a LD member, to help facilitate my preferred government, a left Labour with Liberal input via either coalition or supply.

 

100% AGREED. By shifting the Overton Window and attacking the unions all the time, the right wing have successfully managed to disempower the working classes and increase the power of the untouchable rich even more.

 

I think Lib Dems are too right wing and that's why I would never support them, except in a Tory LD marginal.

 

and guess where I've lived for most of my life.

 

In my dream, it is the Liberals who are the right wing of Britain, the Conservatives are a minor extreme shadow, and Labour are the left wing. Overton Window needs shifting back.

 

And it is the Liberals who can dislodge Tories in the countryside so LibLab fights are strictly counterproductive (for now) in my eyes.

and guess where I've lived for most of my life.

 

In my dream, it is the Liberals who are the right wing of Britain, the Conservatives are a minor extreme shadow, and Labour are the left wing. Overton Window needs shifting back.

 

And it is the Liberals who can dislodge Tories in the countryside so LibLab fights are strictly counterproductive (for now) in my eyes.

 

That would actually be a much better political balance than we have right now with the far right landed gentry Tories as a large party. The only way tog et there is massive media reform, with all political bias banned, just like it is SUPPOSED TO BE (but isn't) on radio and tv. And a new voting systemz one that's not designed to return Tory majorities and have a 2 party system, of course.

 

The Libs should take the fight to the Tories, especially now with how far right the Tories are. They woukd be able to sway a lot of more moderate countryside voters.

1. Not extreme left. Moderate european left.

 

2. Moderate Keynsian economics.

 

3. This same model did wonders in Portugal, Norway and Sweden.

 

4. Neoliberal economics lead to boom n bust, recesssion, plutocracy and rich with so much money they are above the law.

 

OK, so there's *one* person who wouldn't mind the unions holding the country to ransom...

Edited September 6, 20195 yr by vidcapper

That's a big fat Thatcher fallacy. The unions need more power and the rich need less of it.

That's a big fat Thatcher fallacy. The unions need more power and the rich need less of it.

 

Is there one word that comes out of your mouth that isn't neo-Marxism? :rolleyes:

Or one out of yours that isn't extremely right wing neoliberal?

There's a *reason* why haven't had a left-wing gov't since the 70's, as anyone over 45 could tell you. It can be summed up in three words though : Winter Of Discontent

 

Come on VC, everything that makes this country civilised was introduced by labour manifestos from 1935-79 period - Free healthcare/decent welfare for all/family income/legal aid/Free education until third level/redistribution of wealth for the very rich/near full employment until the late 60s/ and people take it so much for granted - just look at the country in the 100 years before this - the only difference between the two political parties was between free trade or protectionism and Ireland which created extreme wealth and extreme poverty.

 

Labour has forced the right onto their ground in a lot of these situations so much so that they have to proclaim how much they love a nationalised health system when becoming leader!

 

It was because of trade unions that this was possible - without them MPs have flogged off the family jewels to corporations who people have no say in whereas if things were not ran properly as nationalised industries you can deselect or vote in a different mp!

Sam Gymiah, former Conservative minister, has just defected to the Lib Dems. That's another one on their team.

 

There was also rumours that a prominent Labour member would be defecting today, but it will need to be someone of great prominence to be a bigger defection than this one.

Yellow Tories.

Yellow Tories.

Honestly, you should be happy. They need to take as many Tory votes as they can. Almost all of their gains are going to be in current Tory seats, but they risk allowing the Tories in Labour-Con marginal seats if the majority of their votes continue to come from former Labour voters.

It's true, shows the British party system needs realigned and the voting system changed instead of having all these people with such broad opinions in 2/3 parties.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEVvnY6WsAE9kHZ...&name=large

 

This is Michael :lol:

It's true, shows the British party system needs realigned and the voting system changed instead of having all these people with such broad opinions in 2/3 parties.

 

I agree. The problem is that the big two parties have a vested interest in keeping FPTP in place, hence why it's still in place. I hoped that with so many sitting MPs currently in limbo and no party with an overall majority at this moment that PR would be put back on the table as a topic of discussion, but so far there hasn't been anything yet.

 

Quite counter-intuitively, if PR were to be introduced, I believe that the biggest victims of the new system would be the Lib Dems themselves despite being the biggest supporters of it, but unless it ever comes in we can't see that in practice.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEVvnY6WsAE9kHZ...&name=large

 

This is Michael :lol:

Alan Sugar has gone down the curious Dan Hodges/John Rentoul path of Blairite -> Remain -> No Deal Brexit-supporting Tory tbf.

I agree. The problem is that the big two parties have a vested interest in keeping FPTP in place, hence why it's still in place. I hoped that with so many sitting MPs currently in limbo and no party with an overall majority at this moment that PR would be put back on the table as a topic of discussion, but so far there hasn't been anything yet.

 

Quite counter-intuitively, if PR were to be introduced, I believe that the biggest victims of the new system would be the Lib Dems themselves despite being the biggest supporters of it, but unless it ever comes in we can't see that in practice.

 

Looking back the 1914-45 period was similar to today in that there was a lot of MPs changing parties or becoming seperate from their traditional parties due to the ruptures in society at the time.

Quite counter-intuitively, if PR were to be introduced, I believe that the biggest victims of the new system would be the Lib Dems themselves despite being the biggest supporters of it, but unless it ever comes in we can't see that in practice.

 

Is that because they'd then have to really stand up & be counted, rather than rely on mostly protest votes? :unsure:

Shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Michaels “yellow tories” because they absolutely are. They’ve been talking with the Scottish Tories about an election pact to avoid wipe out for both parties (on the mainland as Orkney and Shetland will obvi stay LD).

 

So for all their talk about stopping brexit they’re happy to put pro-hard brexit tories into Westminster as long as that means the very pro-EU SNP don’t gain the seat. Because that makes perfect sense.

 

f***ing unionist logic man. It’s wild

Shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss Michaels “yellow tories” because they absolutely are. They’ve been talking with the Scottish Tories about an election pact to avoid wipe out for both parties (on the mainland as Orkney and Shetland will obvi stay LD).

 

So for all their talk about stopping brexit they’re happy to put pro-hard brexit tories into Westminster as long as that means the very pro-EU SNP don’t gain the seat. Because that makes perfect sense.

 

f***ing unionist logic man. It’s wild

 

We *so* need PR, preferably STV!