Suggestion that it's more to access data than anything else, as NHS records will be rather detailed.

That's one Russian hack I could get behind tbh.

 

Unionist press is currently harping on about Russia this time, NOT backing Scottish independence as they would go back to the EU. Their subversion atm is to have Britain leave it as a whole to create more problems. Any Russian leaks and press and false stories would go against independence rn :/ God, it's not enough for Putin to ruin Russia's democracy, they have to attack our, um, quite frankly pretty crap excuse for a democracy too.

Edited May 12, 20178 yr by Yeasty Clutch

Some people in Russia have requested the media refer to PUTIN and not RUSSIA as the source of cyber-attacks (currently being investigated in the USA, despite Trump efforts to sack everyone pointing out the many links to Putin and Russia). Not everyone in Russia supports Putin and his murderous methods. I can say that as the British Government has accused Putin's henchmen of murders on British soil (and many other suspicious ones elsewhere).

 

I find it difficult to see any benefit in attacking the NHS, though, Putin tends to target liberal/democratic targets and gets in bed with the far right - see Le Pen, Trump, Farage, Assange, who all appear to have links between each other and Putin according to journalistic nosey-parkers - at least the ones that have yet to be murdered in suspicious circumstances.

 

It was fun seeing Russian state employees having free reign in the Shitehouse this week (the colour is more orangey than white these days) as Trump positively revelled in having his buddies over. I hope the FBI (at least those not sacked) went through the room afterwards with surveillance sweeps! Russian media: invited. Western media: Uninvited.

 

Time to re-release Alanis....

UKIP are not far-right - I would never vote for a far-right party!

Their manifesto this time literally calls for black and Asian sex offenders to receive harsher punishment than white sex offenders.

Their manifesto this time literally calls for black and Asian sex offenders to receive harsher punishment than white sex offenders.

 

Have they released it yet? I didn't think any of the parties have released their manifestos yet (willingly, anyway).

There's a huge difference between backsliding on Brexit and opposing a Brexit that would have us leave all trade arrangements with the EU. Would a Labour Party that committed to staying in the customs union and doing everything possible to avoid leaving on WTO terms (which would immediately make most goods bought and sold with the EU 10% more expensive) be that unelectable? Because that's the substance of Keir Starmer's position. Certainly he's not someone who's pushing for Labour to oppose Brexit full stop.

 

Isn't this the equivalent of when I used to say Labour should promise to spend "x" and "y" because the public didn't have a problem with them, and you would say it wasn't just about the substance of the policy, it's about the tone? So it is with Brexit - even if the substance of Labour's position wasn't something people disagree with too much, if the Labour spokes-people they see on TV are only ever talking about what they want to do with the EU and only talking up the negative aspects of Brexit and talking in terms like wanting to be "close and collaborative", then people are going to wonder whether deep down Labour were really committed to leaving the EU at all. And that would be even worse with someone like Keir Starmer, who let's face it looks and sounds like the caricature of a hardcore EU supporter.

 

IMO, and I say all this having actually done some canvassing these past couple of weeks for the first time in years, the next Labour leader will need to convince the public that they accept Brexit; that a substantial reduction in immigration is an essential part of it; and that a hardline stance in the negotiations is essential if we want to get a good deal for the country (to my surprise, not all that many people have been saying "Labour would just end up keeping us in the EU", which is a small mercy because that really would've killed the party stone-dead with the LabourLeave voters who are still in play for Labour this time - but there is a fear that Labour would be too eager to keep the peace in the negotiations and would just end up folding too easily, make concessions to the EU too quickly - and this definitely is something people who voted Remain feel just as strongly, because they think a too concessionary stance in the negotiations would end up with the worst of both worlds, out of the EU but on terms which are shit for Britain).

Edited May 12, 20178 yr by Danny

Isn't this the equivalent of when I used to say Labour should promise to spend "x" and "y" because the public didn't have a problem with them, and you would say it wasn't just about the substance of the policy, it's about the tone? So it is with Brexit - even if the substance of Labour's position wasn't something people disagree with too much, if the Labour spokes-people they see on TV are only ever talking about what they want to do with the EU and only talking up the negative aspects of Brexit and talking in terms like wanting to be "close and collaborative", then people are going to wonder whether deep down Labour were really committed to leaving the EU at all. And that would be even worse with someone like Keir Starmer, who let's face it looks and sounds like the caricature of a hardcore EU supporter.

 

IMO, and I say all this having actually done some canvassing these past couple of weeks for the first time in years, the next Labour leader will need to convince the public that they accept Brexit; that a substantial reduction in immigration is an essential part of it; and that a hardline stance in the negotiations is essential if we want to get a good deal for the country (to my surprise, not all that many people have been saying "Labour would just end up keeping us in the EU", which is a small mercy because that really would've killed the party stone-dead with the LabourLeave voters who are still in play for Labour this time - but there is a fear that Labour would be too eager to keep the peace in the negotiations and would just end up folding too easily, make concessions to the EU too quickly - and this definitely is something people who voted Remain feel just as strongly, because they think a too concessionary stance in the negotiations would end up with the worst of both worlds, out of the EU but on terms which are shit for Britain).

Which is exactly what we're heading for if Mayhem gets her way. I just hope Farage lives long enough to see the catastrophic damage he has inflicted on the country and that Cameron's name becomes as reviled as it deserves to be.

Which is exactly what we're heading for if Mayhem gets her way. I just hope Farage lives long enough to see the catastrophic damage he has inflicted on the country and that Cameron's name becomes as reviled as it deserves to be.

Oh Farage won't care, he isn't doing it for the poor who will suffer, he's doing it for the rich "bankers" (of which he is one - failed and bankrupt). Funnily enough like May's hubbie. Funnily enough offshore banking features quite heavily. Suspect they would both like to remove all taxes for the rich and stuff the poor.

 

Both will be cremated when they die, like Thatcher, to avoid people disco dancing on their grave. I know I'd hypothetically pay a visit, worth half a day to get a bit of exercise as I struggle out of my old age wheelchair to give them the send-off they deserve. I mean that in a kind caring UKIP way of course....

Their manifesto this time literally calls for black and Asian sex offenders to receive harsher punishment than white sex offenders.

 

How would you know that, since their manifesto hasn't even been published yet? :unsure:

 

 

Which is exactly what we're heading for if Mayhem gets her way. I just hope Farage lives long enough to see the catastrophic damage he has inflicted on the country and that Cameron's name becomes as reviled as it deserves to be.

 

Still perpetuating Project Fear I see, despite the fact it's near a year since it was proven ineffective... :mellow:

You'd have almost thought that it wasn't a conspiracy and Brexit actually will be really, really bad.

How would you know that, since their manifesto hasn't even been published yet? :unsure:

Still perpetuating Project Fear I see, despite the fact it's near a year since it was proven ineffective... :mellow:

The pound has collapsed leading to an increase in inflation. It would have fallen further but the Bank of England has spent tens of billions of pounds propping it up. Real wages are likely to stagnate or fall having only just started to rise again for most people.

 

Growth forecasts are still positive, but steadily falling.

 

Companies are starting to draw up concrete plans to move staff out of the UK to mainland Europe.

 

If you want to carry on chanting "La la la, not listening", you are free to do so. In the meantime, people are going to suffer.

Isn't this the equivalent of when I used to say Labour should promise to spend "x" and "y" because the public didn't have a problem with them, and you would say it wasn't just about the substance of the policy, it's about the tone? So it is with Brexit - even if the substance of Labour's position wasn't something people disagree with too much, if the Labour spokes-people they see on TV are only ever talking about what they want to do with the EU and only talking up the negative aspects of Brexit and talking in terms like wanting to be "close and collaborative", then people are going to wonder whether deep down Labour were really committed to leaving the EU at all. And that would be even worse with someone like Keir Starmer, who let's face it looks and sounds like the caricature of a hardcore EU supporter.

 

IMO, and I say all this having actually done some canvassing these past couple of weeks for the first time in years, the next Labour leader will need to convince the public that they accept Brexit; that a substantial reduction in immigration is an essential part of it; and that a hardline stance in the negotiations is essential if we want to get a good deal for the country (to my surprise, not all that many people have been saying "Labour would just end up keeping us in the EU", which is a small mercy because that really would've killed the party stone-dead with the LabourLeave voters who are still in play for Labour this time - but there is a fear that Labour would be too eager to keep the peace in the negotiations and would just end up folding too easily, make concessions to the EU too quickly - and this definitely is something people who voted Remain feel just as strongly, because they think a too concessionary stance in the negotiations would end up with the worst of both worlds, out of the EU but on terms which are shit for Britain).

Keir Starmer was the one who inserted the pledge that leaving the EU means ending freedom of movement, and has been fervent about that in every public appearance he's done. There's the tone mattering as much as the substance, and then there's completely ignoring the substance because of the tone. I wonder how much we'd get away with if we just had a parody working class bruiser saying Labour should shove it up their Juncker while committing to nothing much at all.

actually, my memory of playground jingles may be at fault but I could have sworn that phrase you coined was used by many children when I lived in rural Lincolnshire. I don't think one could assume future political persuasions from it but their knuckles were dragging on the playground floor as they bashed other kids on the head with England flag clubs grunting with delight as they inflicted pain on others. And that was just the girls:

 

Oompah oompah stick it up your Juncker.

 

I may have misremembered of course, it was a very long time ago... :teresa:

Growth forecasts are still positive, but steadily falling.

 

Companies are starting to draw up concrete plans to move staff out of the UK to mainland Europe.

 

Growth forecasts are a bit hit and miss though. Growth forecasts were heavily decreased following the brexit vote, only to be increased quite a bit since. The recent BoE forecast cut 2017's growth from 2.0% to 1.9% and upgraded its growth forecasts for 2018/2019. Inflation is quite high, although it's not much above the 2% target set by the BoE. Falling oil prices should help prevent it from spiralling to 3%+ though. In terms of the £, its exchange rate against the $ will be somewhat difficult to forecast. It'll likely recieve a boost if the Tories win the GE with a large majority. EU talks will likely affect the pound a lot too, depending on how they go. Then there's the monetary policy of the US/UK. Interest rates are likely to stay on hold in the UK through 2017 and 2018, whilst the US raise their's - that'll help to create a stronger dollar. But we'll see how things go - the pound recently had an uptick and has sustained it. If the economy does better than expected and EU talks appear/are positive - it may be able to do better than forecast (of course the opposite could occur).

 

I don't think the economy is going to suffer hugely from brexit - however there are issues that'll need to be tackled by the government such as the low wage growth vs inflation, the immigration system, household debt levels and others.

 

I'm hopeful a transitional agreement can be made to give the government and businesses time to adjust and come to terms with the new relationship the EU/UK will have.

You'd have almost thought that it wasn't a conspiracy and Brexit actually will be really, really bad.

 

And this is another way in which "Remain" commentators are playing right into the Tories' hands. All the ridiculously overblown talk about how Brexit would immediately mean the apocalypse, how impossible it will supposedly be to make it work - it's all meant that, because the public thinks the background is supposedly so unprecedentedly difficult, they're now crediting May with Churchillian levels of bravery and genius just because she's managed to keep things going without the sky falling in, because she seems vaguely in control of events, and because she manages to put forward a Brexit plan which sounds superficially plausible. When in reality, her only success has been to avoid the predictions of total economic catastrophe which were always ridiculous and overhyped in the first place.

Edited May 14, 20178 yr by Danny

Keir Starmer was the one who inserted the pledge that leaving the EU means ending freedom of movement, and has been fervent about that in every public appearance he's done.

 

Has he? In one of his BBC interviews a few weeks ago, he said that he thought Britain should be prepared to consider a free trade deal with the EU even if the price of that was immigration being no lower than it is now.

And this is another way in which "Remain" commentators are playing right into the Tories' hands. All the ridiculously overblown talk about how Brexit would immediately mean the apocalypse, how impossible it will supposedly be to make it work - it's all meant that, because the public thinks the background is supposedly so unprecedentedly difficult, they're now crediting May with Churchillian levels of bravery and genius just because she's managed to keep things going without the sky falling in, because she seems vaguely in control of events, and because she manages to put forward a Brexit plan which sounds superficially plausible. When in reality, her only success has been to avoid the predictions of total economic catastrophe which were always ridiculous and overhyped in the first place.

Plan? What plan?

And this is another way in which "Remain" commentators are playing right into the Tories' hands. All the ridiculously overblown talk about how Brexit would immediately mean the apocalypse, how impossible it will supposedly be to make it work - it's all meant that, because the public thinks the background is supposedly so unprecedentedly difficult, they're now crediting May with Churchillian levels of bravery and genius just because she's managed to keep things going without the sky falling in, because she seems vaguely in control of events, and because she manages to put forward a Brexit plan which sounds superficially plausible. When in reality, her only success has been to avoid the predictions of total economic catastrophe which were always ridiculous and overhyped in the first place.

The initial shock of leaving was always going to be easier to manage without hitting people's pockets than what will happen when we actually leave - especially if we go with no deal in place.

Initial pessimistic predictions were based on leaving immediately, not delaying it 9 months. As it was, as Suedey has stated, the BofE had to rescue the economy yet again (see Banking Crisis and massive levels of stored-up debt/bank rescues just sitting there waiting for a recovery that has yet to happen, a decade on) and the pound has dropped almost 20% and stayed dropped. May has done nothing to help the UK economy so far, other than speaking in reassuring tones without offering anything of substance.

 

As others have said, optimists can put on their la la hats and say the sun will shine forever on the non-existent British Empire, but optimists are dangerous people - they walk blindly over cliffs, they follow fools, and they are first to join crowds baying for blood as they get manipulated by slightly smarter people. YES optimists can succeed and innovate, but they are a special kind of optimist and they usually have plans, aims, and methods.

 

Parroting Strong & Stable is not a plan. It is the complete absence of a plan. The Tories are yet to give us a plan, other than "Trust Me I know What I'm Doing."

 

Which is the key sign of someone who DOESN'T know what they are doing. Guaranteed. Alternatively, they know it will disastrous and are lying for political reasons. The EU are completely open about their intentions and plans and aims. They are happy to open the doors to the media. Guess who isn't....

 

 

Rise of the Re-Leavers...

 

This from a Yougov survey :

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/05/12/forget...rexit-electora/