we're not talking about petty rules and regulations though, we're talking about the economic future of our country and it's potential break-up. Petty rules & regulations can be changed with a bit of campaigning.

 

Oh come on, extracting changes from the EU is like trying to get blood from a stone! Cameron's utter failure at that in the run-up to the referendum indicated to many that meaningful reform was virtually impossible, leaving only one choice...

 

The remain side "speculations" were based on solid facts and likely results. The Leave lies were all just wild promises and misrepresentations. You choose to believe them, which is your right, but you don't offer proof that they were not exactly that (because, let's be honest, there is none). Nobody on Buzzjack has.

But Buzzjack is hardly a representative sample of the electorate - if it was, then at least half of us would be Leavers...

 

The main reason for Brexit, far and away, was immigrants. Any reduction in immigration will be almost entirely down to the UK economy going tits up, not due to leaving the EU. May failed for 6 years to reduce immigration even when she had ABSOLUTE control over the majority of that immigration (which is NON-EU). This, as I say, is a fact. From the governments own figures.

 

IMO Political Correctness is the overriding reason why no-one is willing to take the measures that would *actually* reduce immigration.

1983 v 2017

 

With a similarly 'suicidal' manifesto to 1983, how come Labour seem to be doing significantly better in the opinion polls?

 

IMO there are 2 main factors.

 

In 2017 there is no strong centre party, as the newly formed Lib/SDP Alliance was in 1983, to offer a 'safe' alternative for Labour party voters uneasy with their party's manifesto.

 

In 1983 a lot of voters still had strong memories of how powerful the unions were when given relatively free reign under the lax union laws of the 1970's. Now though, we have a whole generation who have no experience of that, so don't regard voting for a leftist, union-loving Labour party as risky as older voters might.

The 2017 manifesto is nothing like 1983's. It's been designed to make the party membership (the majority of which you could call soft left) happy in an election we're still likely to lose. 1983's was very much rooted in the party's hard left, and most of its notable proposals were nowhere near as popular as 2017's.

Oh come on, extracting changes from the EU is like trying to get blood from a stone! Cameron's utter failure at that in the run-up to the referendum indicated to many that meaningful reform was virtually impossible, leaving only one choice...

 

But Buzzjack is hardly a representative sample of the electorate - if it was, then at least half of us would be Leavers...

IMO Political Correctness is the overriding reason why no-one is willing to take the measures that would *actually* reduce immigration.

Cameron was a particularly dim-witted PM who seemed to think he could get 27 governments to agree significant changes in a matter of weeks.

Cameron was a particularly dim-witted PM who seemed to think he could get 27 governments to agree significant changes in a matter of weeks.

 

IMO he knew that perfectly well, so his intention was probably more to make voters *think* he had, ahead of the Brexit vote - but they weren't fooled...

Umm our manifest is EXTREMELY popular and well-costed.

 

The Tory's is a who's who of the Elite - fox hunting, taxing the poor and vulnerable, and strong and stable with nothing costed up.

 

I LOOOVE your jealousy and aatonishment at Corbyn doing well. We got Corbyn's message out over the right wing brainwashing media. That's the only reason Mad May was doin well: Tory one party state media. I told you so!!

 

Corbyn Corbyn Corbyn!!

 

If you are not rich, or if you are rich but with an ounce of compassion, you srriously need to reassess why you vote for that disgusting party.

IMO he knew that perfectly well, so his intention was probably more to make voters *think* he had, ahead of the Brexit vote - but they weren't fooled...

If he seriously thought that - particularly in the knowledge that most of the press would be against him - then he is even dimmer than I thought.

Oh come on, extracting changes from the EU is like trying to get blood from a stone! Cameron's utter failure at that in the run-up to the referendum indicated to many that meaningful reform was virtually impossible, leaving only one choice...

 

But Buzzjack is hardly a representative sample of the electorate - if it was, then at least half of us would be Leavers...

IMO Political Correctness is the overriding reason why no-one is willing to take the measures that would *actually* reduce immigration.

 

bureacracy takes a long while to shift (petrhaps you could give concrete examples of the rules you PERSONALLY want to see the UK get rid of once the entire EU laws and regulations become UK laws and regulations?

 

You make it sound like nobody wanted "them" whatever they are (and we arent talking fake stories like straight bananas here) yet nobody is prepared to list "them". So until they do I will continue to assert that it's a Daily Mail & Sun campaign of bollocks that fooled a lot of people.

 

As Suedey says, cameron was an idiot. Just to point out that in most cases the entirety of the countries of the EU have to agree before things become law, that included the UK who had every opportunity (and frequently took it) to decline on anything they didn't like.

 

Buzzjack is representative of younger voters. I'd say of the older voters on here it's probably about accurate (around one third leavers, one third remainers, one third neither one nor the other). Based purely on observation....

 

No-one is willing to take ACTUAL measures to reduce immigration because it will totally mess up industry and the economy. If that wasn't the case then Tory May would have prevented 150,000 to 200,00 non-EU immigrants each year as per their election promises. It didn't happen because they realised the consequences, not because they inherently love immigrants (half of them are VERY anti-immigrant/anti-EU, including her royal lowness)....except the multi-millionaire foreign-media-owning, Russian oligarch-property-buying tax-avoiding jet set of course. They love them to bits.

 

They LOVE sucking up to billionaire foreigners who get them elected and give them wads of cash of course, just like UKIP.

 

As I said, immigration numbers will continue to be high for as long as British industry continues to need them (which will be for the forseeable future, barring the UK economy falling off a cliff).

 

 

 

 

 

I have finally received my first leaflet of the campaign. It has a picture of Jeremy Corbyn on the front. With that in mind, you might be surprised to hear that it is a Labour leaflet :lol:

Jemery Corbyn's interview with Andrew Neil is ongoing. It started off well, but has since gone downhill - claiming he never met with the IRA/doesn't support trident/said that the extra borrowing needed for the manifesto won't increase the national debt and denied needing to borrow more for day to day spending (after IFS said the labour governmnet would need to). It's quite funny seeing many people complaining about Andrew Niel giving Corbyn a hard time, yet the same people cheered him on against May. :lol:

 

Edit: Now finished. It was better than May's interview, although there were some questionable moments.

Edited May 26, 20178 yr by Envoirment

If I were of a particularly anti-Corbyn bent, I would take this rather odd looking screenshot of Jeremy Corbyn, put a pithy comment under it, and spread it far & wide on the interwebs -

 

http://i.imgur.com/KzMiauC.png

 

I'd say Corbyn did come across better than May, but there will be a lot for his opponents to dissect in that interview. Unlike the above, I don't think he started well - when asked if he thought UK foreign policy caused the Manchester attacks, he refused to answer. I have a feeling that this may come back to haunt him.

Haha Jezza has had this face on a lot during the election campaign!

After being caught out last weekend lying abut what was in the 2015 Tory manifesto, Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has now walked straight into a trap and condemned the words of Boris Johnson...

 

https://www.facebook.com/theipaper/videos/1473562542704369/

 

Oops :lol:

 

 

Haha that was genius journalism from Christian - keep Fallon out there please Tories he's a walking disaster!!

 

 

In a further attempt to win the award as the least interviews party leader in an election, Theresa May has withdrawn from an interview with Jeremy Paxman tomorrow. Paxman will be interviewing Amber Rudd instead. No doubt the Tory party will try to spin this as allowing May to meet more voters (not that she has met any voters other than party members yet) and will deny that it has anything to do with her terrible performance last week with Andrew Neil.

Murdoch has his greasy fingers alll over their manifesto. The Levingston inquiry will be dropped if they are elected. No wonder his media machines are all out to get Labour.

In a further attempt to win the award as the least interviews party leader in an election, Theresa May has withdrawn from an interview with Jeremy Paxman tomorrow. Paxman will be interviewing Amber Rudd instead. No doubt the Tory party will try to spin this as allowing May to meet more voters (not that she has met any voters other than party members yet) and will deny that it has anything to do with her terrible performance last week with Andrew Neil.

 

I thought Paxman had retired from interviews etc, or was that just for Newsnight? What channel/program will it be on?

I thought Paxman had retired from interviews etc, or was that just for Newsnight? What channel/program will it be on?

He's still doing the odd one-off, including this on Channel 4.

Paxman is a massive Tory, part of the establishment and a friend to her party. Makes no sense not to go on.

Murdoch has his greasy fingers alll over their manifesto. The Levingston inquiry will be dropped if they are elected. No wonder his media machines are all out to get Labour.

Dropping the Leveson inquiry is in the Tory manifesto.