I'm not sure which you have a bigger bee in your bonnet about - the Mail or the Tories? :unsure:

Well, I was thinking in terms of a fully franchised electorate, but that is a valid point.

 

Why would a referendum include decriminalising homosexuality for *men*, not for women too?

 

But you just ignore the reasons for why it was odious for the Mail to attack democratic institutions over a referendum. It was a move right ou5 of the totalitarian handbook.

If people are asked whether we should have a final say on the deal, support for a vote is higher. The phrase "a second referendum" suggests an exact re-run of the last one. That would not be the case.

But you just ignore the reasons for why it was odious for the Mail to attack democratic institutions over a referendum. It was a move right ou5 of the totalitarian handbook.

 

But if I said I accepted those reasons now, I doubt it would be taken as sincere?

If people are asked whether we should have a final say on the deal, support for a vote is higher. The phrase "a second referendum" suggests an exact re-run of the last one. That would not be the case.

 

It is still not a majority in favour though and I think it would be a very hard sell to the public given there have been UK elections/referenda held in 2015, 2016 and 2017.

Edited January 14, 20187 yr by Doctor Blind

It is still not a majority in favour though and I think it would be a very hard sell to the public given there have been UK elections/referenda held in 2015, 2016 and 2017.

If support for Remain continues at around 55% - or rises further - support for a vote may well rise. I have been told (by an MP) that there are plenty of Labour and Tory MPs who will finally show some backbone if support for Remain reaches around 60%.

If support for Remain continues at around 55% - or rises further - support for a vote may well rise. I have been told (by an MP) that there are plenty of Labour and Tory MPs who will finally show some backbone if support for Remain reaches around 60%.

 

Continues around 55%?

 

When did it *reach* 55%? Last time I checked a couple of months ago, it was still 50/50.

Then check again :P

 

It is at 55%

 

Obviously still short of a 63/6 majority, but if the Leavers don't care about our democracy being less well safeguarded than golf clubs, then we go low too. Going high didn't work for Hills' anaemic campaign.

Then check again :P

 

I did, but still couldn't source that 55% figure.

 

I did, but still couldn't source that 55% figure.

 

There was a COMRES poll out in the Daily Mirror that had the 55/45 figure (exc. 'don't knows') but I seem to remember a lot of polls had a narrow 'remain' lead in the run-up to the referendum so you really can't read too much into it IMO, I think it is still 50/50 and will likely stay that way for a while.

There was a COMRES poll out in the Daily Mirror that had the 55/45 figure (exc. 'don't knows') but I seem to remember a lot of polls had a narrow 'remain' lead in the run-up to the referendum so you really can't read too much into it IMO, I think it is still 50/50 and will likely stay that way for a while.

Tbh if a second referendum was actually proposed I can see the support for Bremain dropping quite significantly initially in anger but it rising slowly back up again as the campaigns run. One things for sure, the Remain campaign would have a harder job - if they do a similar campaign to last time it'll be called fear mongering again although a lot of what they said is right but if they refrain from that they'll be criticized for doing so and they'll have to run a positive campaign about the benefits of Europe when most leave voters don't care about them.

It simply makes more sense to wait. The tounger generations like ours born into the EU are far more likely to support it. These opinions seem entrenched, either by history or media or both on one side, and being born into it/ good experiences/ changing times/ history as well on the other. These pithy referendums with blaring headlines will no change minds, especially not when opinons are so entrenched.

There was a COMRES poll out in the Daily Mirror that had the 55/45 figure

 

Thanks.

It simply makes more sense to wait. The tounger generations like ours born into the EU are far more likely to support it.

 

Would you say that 'fear of change' is a significant factor, then?

Fear of being deprived rights we were born into and fear of negative consequences, yes.

There was a COMRES poll out in the Daily Mirror that had the 55/45 figure (exc. 'don't knows') but I seem to remember a lot of polls had a narrow 'remain' lead in the run-up to the referendum so you really can't read too much into it IMO, I think it is still 50/50 and will likely stay that way for a while.

Contrary to the line being peddled by so many, there were actually more polls showing a lead for Leave than Remain in the ten days before the vote.

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/eu-referendum

Tbh if a second referendum was actually proposed I can see the support for Bremain dropping quite significantly initially in anger but it rising slowly back up again as the campaigns run. One things for sure, the Remain campaign would have a harder job - if they do a similar campaign to last time it'll be called fear mongering again although a lot of what they said is right but if they refrain from that they'll be criticized for doing so and they'll have to run a positive campaign about the benefits of Europe when most leave voters don't care about them.

The Remain campaign would definitely need to be better than last time. OTOH. they would be able to point to actual things that will definitely be lost as the terms of the deal will be known.

Still can't believe Call Me Dave gambled the entire country on a Tory rift based on 50/50 polling WITHOUT guarantees of at least 60/40 and 3/4s nation lock.

The Remain campaign would definitely need to be better than last time. OTOH. they would be able to point to actual things that will definitely be lost as the terms of the deal will be known.

 

Yes, unlike the last bunch of lies from ongoing liars, an actual deal to vote on would make it crystal clear exactly what it was going to cost the nation, the individuals, and what they stand to lose.

 

One can say what they stand to gain, but there is nothing much to point to other than vague promises by people who have been proven to be liars. "Trust me, I'm an MP on a mission/failed economist/investment banker/offshore tax haven supporter/immigrant blamer*"

 

(* delete as appropriate)

Still can't believe Call Me Dave gambled the entire country on a Tory rift based on 50/50 polling WITHOUT guarantees of at least 60/40 and 3/4s nation lock.

That's because he's a plastic-faced idiot.

Fear of being deprived rights we were born into and fear of negative consequences, yes.

 

And Leavers aren't entitled to the same concerns?