1. You REALLY don't get the concept of democracy at ALL do you?

 

2. That is a lie. If the campaign had no effect then there would have been no need to use illegal money to launch last minute voter targeting online, no need to lie to the cameras non-stop for weeks on end. YOUR opinion, because it is convenient to you to hold it, is that the campaign had no effect. The numbers changed throughout so the best you can claim is that opinion wavered and settled down to be similar at the end of the campaign as at the beginning. I mean Farage was shitting bricks when Jo Cox was murdered, petrified there would be a sympathy vote. How soon you forget.....

 

3. Cameron is an egotistical selfish prick. I think that covers it....

 

4. I would say racist haters. Not all, but some. I definitely know lots of folk that way inclined, and the list of UKIP leaders who had to resign due to their comments, fights, and general nuttiness before disintegrating suggests they weren't the most balanced or fair people in the world.....

 

Having an interest in politics isn't necessarily the same thing as hating some sections of the community with vitriol. Remember all those attacks on non-whites after the result? Thought not. Just a reminder for you.

 

1. If your definition of democracy is anything other than 'most votes wins', then maybe you need a new dictionary. ;)

 

2. It's strange how we still seem to argue, even when we basically agree on a point. :huh:

 

3. While I don't disagree with your description, there has to be more to it than that - maybe the 'Sir Humphreys' were complacent too?

 

Yeah, but...

 

The Brexiteers dont want a fairer society, they want a divided society where the rich have the power and the poor have to go begging for zero hour contracts. Free from EU legislation on workers rights they can bide thier time and pick and choose which ones to kill off - assuming they dont grant themselves the Henry powers to do what they like behind closed doors and ignore Parliament, as the Tories demanded until the British Legal system (THE TRAITORS) ruled otherwise.

 

They could solve the housing crisis. havent.

 

They could bring in decent minimum wages. They haven't (that was the Libdems policy that they stole). We have lost £900 per household since the referendum (according to the Governor, a Tory hireling) and they do nothing except plan to pursue policies guaranteed to make us even worse off.

 

The NHS is being starved. They even promised they would fund it on the side of a bus, and 2 years on they still havent, and people are dying earlier, the death rate is climbing, life expectancy is not rising for the first time in decades. If they eventually do anything it will be down the NHS boss making political points instead of shutting up like a nice hireling and accepting the ongoing cuts. And the best he can achieve is to get back the levels of annual rises needed to keep pace with inflation, never mind the rising ageing population.

 

In summary: I don't share your optimism about Tories, sorry about that.

 

You are not speaking for *this* Brexiteer above - I want pretty much the opposite of the above - the abolition of zero-hour contracts, for example!

 

How much would call a 'decent minimum wage'?

 

Unfortunately the NHS is like a bottomless pit - no matter how much money you put into it, it will never be enough.

1. If your definition of democracy is anything other than 'most votes wins', then maybe you need a new dictionary. ;)

 

2. It's strange how we still seem to argue, even when we basically agree on a point. :huh:

 

3. While I don't disagree with your description, there has to be more to it than that - maybe the 'Sir Humphreys' were complacent too?

You are not speaking for *this* Brexiteer above - I want pretty much the opposite of the above - the abolition of zero-hour contracts, for example!

 

How much would call a 'decent minimum wage'?

 

Unfortunately the NHS is like a bottomless pit - no matter how much money you put into it, it will never be enough.

 

1. Nothing in the referendum said this was a definite anything forever more and there was nothing to say we couldnt have a further vote DEMOCRATICALLY on the final deal. That's called democracy. handing control over to rich Tories to do what they want is not democracy. The People should have the final say. That you don't want the People to have the final say means you don't believe in democracy. At worst it's a nuisance you have to go through again. 5 years later, just like an election where the government gets judged on it's performance. Only a dictator would let elected morons get carte blanche to get their own way. A bit like in the USA.

 

2. Civil Servants are not to blame. Politicians who choose to blame the hired staff are liars. Paid to do the bidding of the people making the decisions, if you don't you get fired. That is reality. Trust me as someone who has worked in Local Government where even staff telling 100% truisms and warning of disasters (which all came true) still get fired if it doesnt toe the party line.

 

3. You have a very strange way of trying to achieve some of your political beliefs then - by supporting the party who will do the complete opposite.

 

4. So lets give up on saving lives then, get rid of the NHS and let the deaths of millions of people be cost-free on rich people who can afford their own care. Now let's see you start a party with that as the aim (after all it worked in the USA...)

1. Nothing in the referendum said this was a definite anything forever more

 

Nor was there in 1975, but you Remainers prefer not to draw attention to that....

 

 

and there was nothing to say we couldnt have a further vote DEMOCRATICALLY on the final deal.

There was nothing to say we should, either.

 

That's called democracy. handing control over to rich Tories to do what they want is not democracy. The People should have the final say. That you don't want the People to have the final say means you don't believe in democracy.

 

Will you stop perpetuating that blatant lie that I don't want another vote! My only objection is to a 2nd vote where 'Leaving with no deal' was not an option,

 

2. Civil Servants are not to blame. Politicians who choose to blame the hired staff are liars. Paid to do the bidding of the people making the decisions, if you don't you get fired. That is reality. Trust me as someone who has worked in Local Government where even staff telling 100% truisms and warning of disasters (which all came true) still get fired if it doesnt toe the party line.

I'm not talking about the plebes, but the mandarins - the latter are virtually immune from firing.

 

3. You have a very strange way of trying to achieve some of your political beliefs then - by supporting the party who will do the complete opposite.

 

HOW MANY TIMES?! I loathe the Tories as much as anyone here! Yes, we share a few social ideas, but their economic policies are anathema to me. :puke:

 

 

 

Nor was there in 1975, but you Remainers prefer not to draw attention to that....

There was nothing to say we should, either.

Will you stop perpetuating that blatant lie that I don't want another vote! My only objection is to a 2nd vote where 'Leaving with no deal' was not an option,

 

I'm not talking about the plebes, but the mandarins - the latter are virtually immune from firing.

HOW MANY TIMES?! I loathe the Tories as much as anyone here! Yes, we share a few social ideas, but their economic policies are anathema to me. :puke:

 

1. I presume their was a comfortable majority in 1975 and it wasnt necessarily an issue that I recall until the rise of Farage and the noticeable increase in immigrants on British streets. The Tories did rip themselves apart with it in the 90's, but the country as a whole wasnt clamouring for it. Just a section was, which they got once UKIP made inroads. You Leavers prefer not to draw attention to the fact that people generally didn't give a toss until then, though SOME did. At it's peak around one third of the population, after the referendum. Around about one third of the population would like a final say in the deal. Which one third gets to say what we do? The one third which includes dead people who voted 2 years ago, or the one third which includes teens who were denied the vote two years ago? I know which I feel takes priority - the people who will live with the consequences not the people who are dead and offering no opinion on the matter. Quiet frankly I suspect the dead voter just wont bother turning up, that's how involved they are in politics now...

 

2. You say potato and I say potato. Potato, potato, let's call the whole thing off. There wasn't anything on the ballot about not executing people who lied about what people were actually voting for either, but that doesn't mean it should be a "thing"...

 

3. You are splitting hairs, I am not perpetuating a myth. You want a fixed ballot where a) heads you win or b) tails you win because the alternative is far worse. That isn't democracy. That's blackmail, no matter however many times you try to deny it. If it weren't you would agree to an open choice and wouldnt cower in fear that your precious idelaism wont be supported by the voters once they know the real truth. So you basically admit they were lied to and swayed by it. If they werent and you remain convince people would still vote the same way knowing the facts then there is nothing to be scared of in a democratic final vote of judgement by the people 5 years later on how the government achieved what theyd claimed would be piss easy (bearing in mind the government ARE the Brexiteers who made the promises)

 

4. No they aren't. People in local government get fired at any level by the politicians. 100% true. You are just mouthing off Daily mail headlines. Do you work for local government or the Civil service? I do, have done since the early 80's. seen it all. The top man in our council was "let go" over a "difference of opinion" with the Leader of The Council on a matter which has since been referred to the police. Our ex-Chief Exec, who was seriously ill at the time, is now what is described as "dead". Pushing up the daisies, Joined the Choir Invisible. He wasn't old either.

 

5. Stop making excuses for them and their supporters (Hi Daily Mail, Fox News, Sun, Express, and so on) and slag them off a bit instead and that would become more clear. Or is that you are willing to go along with whatever they do as long as they deliver a Hard Brexit? because I have a real problem with what they do to British Parliamentary democracy once they see an opportunity.....

 

 

 

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/direktedemokra...n1k_gI.facebook

 

Oops, even the referendum-loving Swiss are decrying our useless, baseless referendum. They are saying 'it wasn't direct democracy, but nonsense'.

What if there *were* to be a 2nd referendum, and the result was a Leave vote as close as the last?

 

It certainly wouldn't satisfy Remainers, and in any case, there would be no way of preventing the campaign being fought using the same tactics as the last, which was one of their main complaints.

 

Also, I wonder if it has occurred to people, that any attempt to control the debate would likely backfire dramatically anyway... e.g. if discussion of Freedom of Movement were banned, that would likely be seen as an attempt to whitewash the issue by Remainers.

Edited May 31, 20187 yr by vidcapper

What if there *were* to be a 2nd referendum, and the result was a Leave vote as close as the last?

 

It certainly wouldn't satisfy Remainers, and in any case, there would be no way of preventing the campaign being fought using the same tactics as the last, which was one of their main complaints.

 

Also, I wonder if it has occurred to people, that any attempt to control the debate would likely backfire dramatically anyway... e.g. if discussion of Freedom of Movement were banned, that would likely be seen as an attempt to whitewash the issue by Remainers.

 

Yes it would satisfy everyone because it would be based on facts, no matter how close it is. Democracy.

 

There can be no bullshit on a deal that is on the table in black and white, no amount of Project Fear, no amount of NHS claims on a bus to sway the argument.

 

Re: Freedom Of Movement, you may wish to have a word with the f***ing stupid rich Jacob Reeces-Sprogger who is again getting front page headlines saying the Northern Ireland border can be sorted piss-easy with The Telegraph saying adopting the Switzerland model.

 

Switzerland has a free trade agreement with the EU which expressly gives EU citizens (and vice versa) freedom of movement and their trade mirrors EU regulations. This way they can have their cake and eat it - by being under EU regulations without actually being a member. I'm quite happy to go along with this suggestion, but Rees-Mogg seems to not understand a single thing about EU law, rules, and how they affect other countries, even after years of front page propaganda, a split party, a split country, and Wikipedia available at the drop of a google.

 

I can only assume he & The Telegraph must be among the biggest liars in the country, or complete morons. I can't make my mind up.

(NOTE: if the UK is subject to EU regulations after 2019 march 1st then rich people with accounts and business interests in tax havens will be forced to publish data. I can't imagine multi-millionaire, tobacco-pushing, professional multimillionaire tax "advisors" might have self-interest at heart to avoid this at all costs.....)

looking like another big UK money spinner will bite the dust: International broadcasting.:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44307883

want an answer to the question "Can you name a hypocritical Brexit-supporting bast*rd?(*)

 

Look no further, than this former MP who is applying to live and remain in the EU and get to keep all of his rights while stripping the rest of us of them.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/nigel-lawso...ncy-vote-leave/

 

Feel free to express your gratitude in non-libellous, but accurate, soundbites.

 

(*) I'm not actually suggesting he was born out of wedlock of course, I wouldnt want to give actual bast*rds a bad name as there is actually nothing wrong with being born out of wedlock. There is something very wrong in forcing UK citizens to do something they don't want to do when you have every slimy, sneaky, Posh, self-serving, conniving intention of avoiding the same rules yourself, and not sticking with the country as it slides into economic chaos against all your claims. I mean that sort of selfish bast*rd.

looking like another big UK money spinner will bite the dust: International broadcasting.:

 

That's a bit of an exaggeration - perhaps you should apply for a job at the Mail. :P

 

want an answer to the question "Can you name a hypocritical Brexit-supporting bast*rd?(*)

 

I half-expected someone to post *my* name there. :)

That's a bit of an exaggeration - perhaps you should apply for a job at the Mail. :P

I half-expected someone to post *my* name there. :)

 

Over 500 foreign TV networks are based in the Uk and its quite a money-spinner because they have access to the massive EU market. Why would the EU allow us access and lose all control over those networks when they can have that cash for themselves and have control over what is allowed?

 

What part of that is exaggeration? Please feel free to explain to me how the UK will keep that market, I'm sure the government needs some solid ideas.....

Hard to keep up with the brexit-related daily dose.

 

This morning it's Davy davy sticking his below-par oar in again on Northern Ireland's border. If I understand him correctly (and it's hard to make logic of his "ideas") he wants a buffer zone at the border, leading to a Northern Ireland which is both complying with EU regulations and UK regulations.

 

off the top of my head:

 

You can't comply with both, it's one or the other. You can either strike independent deals or have free movement but you cant have both. The DUP won't accept it. The EU won't accept it.

 

This is the man in charge of Brexit, who assured us it would all be wrapped up in 12 months with the EU giving a brilliant deal capitulating on whatever we wanted because Germans needed to sell us their cars.

 

So, either a Liar or an Imbecile. Or both.

 

2 year anniversary coming up, looking forward to that signed deal being announced.

Over 500 foreign TV networks are based in the Uk and its quite a money-spinner because they have access to the massive EU market. Why would the EU allow us access and lose all control over those networks when they can have that cash for themselves and have control over what is allowed?

 

What part of that is exaggeration?

 

The part about 'international broadcasting biting the dust'.

 

International broadcasting will go on just fine, regardless of whether we are in the EU or not.

Edited June 1, 20187 yr by vidcapper

Hard to keep up with the brexit-related daily dose.

 

This morning it's Davy davy sticking his below-par oar in again on Northern Ireland's border. If I understand him correctly (and it's hard to make logic of his "ideas") he wants a buffer zone at the border, leading to a Northern Ireland which is both complying with EU regulations and UK regulations.

 

off the top of my head:

 

You can't comply with both, it's one or the other. You can either strike independent deals or have free movement but you cant have both. The DUP won't accept it. The EU won't accept it.

 

This is the man in charge of Brexit, who assured us it would all be wrapped up in 12 months with the EU giving a brilliant deal capitulating on whatever we wanted because Germans needed to sell us their cars.

 

So, either a Liar or an Imbecile. Or both.

 

2 year anniversary coming up, looking forward to that signed deal being announced.

this might just be the stupidest idea yet

 

Hard to keep up with the brexit-related daily dose.

 

This morning it's Davy davy sticking his below-par oar in again on Northern Ireland's border. If I understand him correctly (and it's hard to make logic of his "ideas") he wants a buffer zone at the border, leading to a Northern Ireland which is both complying with EU regulations and UK regulations.

 

off the top of my head:

 

You can't comply with both, it's one or the other. You can either strike independent deals or have free movement but you cant have both. The DUP won't accept it. The EU won't accept it.

 

This is the man in charge of Brexit, who assured us it would all be wrapped up in 12 months with the EU giving a brilliant deal capitulating on whatever we wanted because Germans needed to sell us their cars.

 

So, either a Liar or an Imbecile. Or both.

 

2 year anniversary coming up, looking forward to that signed deal being announced.

 

This is known as the Hokey Cokey Solution - in, out, shake it all about.

The part about 'international broadcasting biting the dust'.

 

International broadcasting will go on just fine, regardless of whether we are in the EU or not.

 

I didn't say it wouldn't. It will be the money we make out of it that bites the dust. Still waiting for your suggestion on how to avoid it......

 

You should know, you voted for it.

The part about 'international broadcasting biting the dust'.

 

International broadcasting will go on just fine, regardless of whether we are in the EU or not.

 

Plus:

 

Don't take it from me that Brexit is going to be an economic disaster, take it from your hero, who has now come around to agree with everyone who said it would be a disaster, by way of excsuinbg himself from the blame for lying through his teeth and accusing everyone who put forward a reasonable case about the consequences of Brexit as liars:

 

 

"Follow Follow @AdrianFarrellAT

More

#FarageOnLBC doesn't care that you'll be poorer.

 

“After Brexit whether for good or ill, we will be self-governing. That’s the point. I never said it would be a beneficial thing to leave and everyone would be better off, just that we would be self-governing."

 

#brexit #FBPE"

 

So, Farage says he never said we would be better off. What a lying SOB...

 

"I want us to move as quickly as we can towards a free trade deal between the U.K. and the U.S.A. that would be good for both of us. That would also send a signal to the European Union that there's a bigger world outside of the European Union, and Britain can manage just nicely. Nigel Farage

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/nigel_farage_854050"

 

Oops better ring up your close friend Racist Donald and convince him to stop taxing our products 25% higher then.

 

Hashtag Project Fear Coming True Brexiteers Blaming Electorate For Believing Their Lies

I didn't say it wouldn't. It will be the money we make out of it that bites the dust. Still waiting for your suggestion on how to avoid it......

 

You should know, you voted for it.

 

I don't agree - it is no different from voting for a government without knowing the details of how they will achieve what they promised in their manifesto.

 

Plus it is tacitly accepted that practical difficulties will prevent any new government from achieving all they promised. However even that level of admission seems to be anathema to Remain supporters

I don't agree - it is no different from voting for a government without knowing the details of how they will achieve what they promised in their manifesto.

 

Plus it is tacitly accepted that practical difficulties will prevent any new government from achieving all they promised. However even that level of admission seems to be anathema to Remain supporters

 

No it isn't. That's your convenient Get Out OF Jail Free card. You chose to ignore the Remain campaign calling justified facts and concerns Project Fear. The information was there, you ignored it, you still ignore it. You are to blame it certainly isn't people who rationally came top a conclusion that the lying f***ers who said it would all be sorted out in 12 months and we would be richer were actually lying f***ers.

 

YOU may claim to have known they were lying all along (though your 2-year-campaign trying to prove that we will all "find out" how great it will be once Hard Brexit is a done deal appears to be history) and that the Remain campaign was lies has noticeably changed into "well we all knew it was a lie in the first place and the point was we wanted to leave no matter what the cost" as more and more evidence comes out that it's all a shit-show. This, of course, is a lie. As you have admitted recently, people voted for many reasons. Were you lying when you accepted that truth or are you lying now?

 

So, when you made those many many many claims were you lying or were you wrong? Why have you stopped saying that we will all find out how well we do when we leave via Hard Brexit?

 

Err is it because there is nothing to support it any more and even the Brexit Liars have also changed their tactic? No more claims that it will all be marvellous, no the argument now is that the pain will be worth it to be rid of the EU.

 

So, either you were duped or you made an error judgement or you knew it would hurt the country (and people's lives) and voted leave anyway.

 

But in any case stop making excuses for the liars making a complete ball's up of the UK. They are to blame, and anyone who continues to support them knowing what that means is to blame.

 

Not Remainers. We are just bystanders to a car crash that we can see rushing towards us.

Meanwhile let's not forget Labour (Shhh don't mention Brexit). There are signs that even hardcore supporters are pissed off with Corbyn's freakish hatred of the EU on the grounds that he wont be able to nationalise railways (as a member of the EU we could make sure that nationalised industries remains a "thing", as it is when I travel on the fabulous Spanish (sometimes overcrowded, sometimes late, but very very regular and cheap) nationalised railways).

 

basically any excuse to argue against the EU will do.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/j...ition-on-brexit