The huge differences in voting intentions in different age groups are yet another reason why a threshold should have beern applied if the result was to be treated as binding (despite the legislation saying otherwise). It was always clear that a small majority for Leave would be wiped out by changes in the electorate between the date of the vote and the date of leaving. That makes chanting "will of the people" an illegitimate justification for leaving. As that is just about the only argument the Quitters are using now, their case looks even weaker now than it did at the time of the referendum.

 

Just to save time, no I wouldn't apply the same logic to the result of a general election because those results have an effective time limit.

I see nothing wrong with periodic checks that the deals politicians have made on our behalf are what we want. That's what Nigel farage believes and said the night of the referendum when he thought he'd lost that "this is not the end of the matter".

 

If that's what he believed then he can't argue that the people shouldnt have the final say on the deal that has been agreed, or no deal, or staying, based on promises that were made - as Rees-Mogg said in 2011 before he changed his mind. The idea that nobody ever changes their mind is an excuse to ignore democracy. Remember this whole mess was created by rabid Brexiteers rushing through legislation panicking that "quick do it now before they change their minds" and not thinking it through methodically and making sure that everything was ready to avoid the worst-case scenario: being thrown out with nothing agreed with anyone vs everyone behind something they can all come together on.

 

Farage wanted a Norway agreement. Now he doesn't. If even the leader of Brexit can't agree with himself 2 years later why on Earth should anyone expect people to agree with themselves two years later? It's called changing your mind and it's the basis of democracy.

 

Answer that.

 

I don't think for one minute that Farage has changed his mind about leaving the EU, which is the crucial point.

I don't think for one minute that Farage has changed his mind about leaving the EU, which is the crucial point.

 

We go to the pub. We all vote for beer as people are allergic to wine. Farage goes to the bar and comes back with wine. It is still alcohol. Is the important thing that it is alcohol?

 

I don't think for one minute that Farage has changed his mind about leaving the EU, which is the crucial point.

 

Yet he's slagging off the agreed deal which is much less Norway than the Norway agreement he said he'd be happy with. So he lied. Or he changed his mind. There are no other explanations.

 

 

Meanwhile Tim Martin has great news for Wetherspoons customers - he's totally in favour of people leaving without paying their bills! (Re: leaving the EU without settling up the 39b owed)

 

Result! "Well, yes I agreed to pay for the veggie burger & chips but it wasn't what I thought I wanted so I'm changing my mind and not paying"

 

I'm dashing down there in the new year and using that argument when his (poorly-paid) staff want me to cough up.

 

 

Warnings out today not to holiday after the 31st March! The government needs to admit to everyone how bad things would be. People are still under the illusion that NOTHING WILL V

CHANGE under a Hard Brexit, but that there would be fewer immigrants, which is also not true.

We go to the pub. We all vote for beer as people are allergic to wine. Farage goes to the bar and comes back with wine. It is still alcohol. Is the important thing that it is alcohol?

 

Strawman

Warnings out today not to holiday after the 31st March! The government needs to admit to everyone how bad things would be. People are still under the illusion that NOTHING WILL V

CHANGE under a Hard Brexit, but that there would be fewer immigrants, which is also not true.

 

Surely only holidaying in Europe would matter in this scenario?

 

Surely only holidaying in Europe would matter in this scenario?

 

Where the majority can afford to holiday yes?

 

It's not a strawman. It is an allegory. The details matter. He campaigned for an entirely different type of Brexit to the one him and the disaster capitalists are pushing for now.

Surely only holidaying in Europe would matter in this scenario?

 

No we can't fly over Europe either without agreement, and British pilots can't work in Europe without agreement. That means detouring over the North Pole or Africa or the Americas. Total chaos. The Brexiteers continue to lie, lie, lie, or show just how ignorant and dumb they really are.

 

New Zealand went into recession in 1973 when the UK joined the Common Market, as they had priority treatment by the UK for their exports prior to that. That was a sudden loss of one important customer, not 27 of 'em. It took years for their economy to recover.

 

And yet the whole Project Fear bullshit continues to be pushed by rich lying tosspots trying to hide their offshore riches with the help of Tory governments and UKIP - the EU is going to make them publish details of what and where in 2019.

 

No country in history has cut themselves off from it's markets in one fell swoop, and the world looks at us and thinks we are insane and suicidal. Such arrogant bullshit pushed by stupid toffs and believed by millions who don't know any better.

No we can't fly over Europe either without agreement, and British pilots can't work in Europe without agreement. That means detouring over the North Pole or Africa or the Americas. Total chaos. The Brexiteers continue to lie, lie, lie, or show just how ignorant and dumb they really are.

 

New Zealand went into recession in 1973 when the UK joined the Common Market, as they had priority treatment by the UK for their exports prior to that. That was a sudden loss of one important customer, not 27 of 'em. It took years for their economy to recover.

 

And yet the whole Project Fear bullshit continues to be pushed by rich lying tosspots trying to hide their offshore riches with the help of Tory governments and UKIP - the EU is going to make them publish details of what and where in 2019.

 

No country in history has cut themselves off from it's markets in one fell swoop, and the world looks at us and thinks we are insane and suicidal. Such arrogant bullshit pushed by stupid toffs and believed by millions who don't know any better.

 

Who are led to believe in the myth of empire by the papers and rich toffs, without ever understanding that empire only ever helped the rich, not the poor.

No we can't fly over Europe either without agreement, and British pilots can't work in Europe without agreement. That means detouring over the North Pole or Africa or the Americas. Total chaos. The Brexiteers continue to lie, lie, lie, or show just how ignorant and dumb they really are.

 

Neither can they fly over us...

 

Besides, if the EU were to act like this, motivated by petty spite, it would conform everything Brexiters claim about them!

Everything the Quitters said about the EU = the EU sticking to its rules and refusing to change them to suit a non-member.

Everything the Quitters said about the EU = the EU sticking to its rules and refusing to change them to suit a non-member.

 

You don't need to be a member just to fly over their airspace - besides, they're hardly going to shoot down a passenger airliner!

You don't need to be a member just to fly over their airspace - besides, they're hardly going to shoot down a passenger airliner!

All EU members are part of a mutual agreement over use of airspace and landing rights. Non-EU members need to make separate arrangements.

Corbyn bringing vote of no confidence in the pm over her delaying the Brexit vote. Not in gov so it’ll have f*** all impact in parliament other than embarrassing May of she loses and is another useless move from labour.

Corbyn bringing vote of no confidence in the pm over her delaying the Brexit vote. Not in gov so it’ll have f*** all impact in parliament other than embarrassing May of she loses and is another useless move from labour.

If May loses, the government falls. Therefore, we can expect all Tory MPs to support her. Corbyn has been resisting this despite pressure form all the other opposition parties. I think his previous reasoning was fairly logical. If the government win, it won't really have achieved much.

If May loses, the government falls. Therefore, we can expect all Tory MPs to support her. Corbyn has been resisting this despite pressure form all the other opposition parties. I think his previous reasoning was fairly logical. If the government win, it won't really have achieved much.

A correction...

 

As the vote is one of no confidence in May herself rather than the government, she could decide to ignore a defeat.

Corbyn hasn't tabled a full vote of no confidence in the Government yet and won't do until he can be sure of it passing, ie the DUP pledging to support it to bring May down. If the backstop stays and the DUP can assure Corbyn that they'll vote with Labour he could table it in January. All Tory MP's would no doubt support the Government as they don't want an election yet as many could lose their seats.

 

We could yet have an election in February or March next year.

Edited December 17, 20186 yr by Crazy Christmas

Corbyn hasn't tabled a full vote of no confidence in the Government yet and won't do until he can be sure of it passing, ie the DUP pledging to support it to bring May down. If the backstop stays and the DUP can assure Corbyn that they'll vote with Labour he could table it in January. All Tory MP's would no doubt support the Government as they don't want an election yet as many could lose their seats.

 

We could yet have an election in February or March next year.

 

Correct.