And on the other side of the border...

 

we be riding this wave all the way to freedom and our EU passports

 

Except that you won't be *in* the EU if you achieve independence - you'll have to apply as a separate country, and satisfy all the criteria that new members have to.

 

I'm not saying that wouldn't happen, but it's likely to be a long drawn-out process.

 

We already satisfy all the criteria by virtue of the fact that we currently are an EU member. Duh.

 

A growing number within the EU have been confirming that Scotland wouldn’t need to wait long at all. Mainly because of the sentence above.

 

 

We also don’t magically achieve freedom from what’s left of the English empire overnight. There will be a negotiation period where we sort out split of the assets and debts with Westminster that we can use to speak with the EU and arrange our way in.

Except that you won't be *in* the EU if you achieve independence - you'll have to apply as a separate country, and satisfy all the criteria that new members have to.

 

I'm not saying that wouldn't happen, but it's likely to be a long drawn-out process.

Scotland will already have met most of the membership requirements. Unless another member obstructs their application for other reasons, it needn’t take as long as most recent ones.

We already satisfy all the criteria by virtue of the fact that we currently are an EU member. Duh.

 

A growing number within the EU have been confirming that Scotland wouldn’t need to wait long at all. Mainly because of the sentence above.

We also don’t magically achieve freedom from what’s left of the English empire overnight. There will be a negotiation period where we sort out split of the assets and debts with Westminster that we can use to speak with the EU and arrange our way in.

 

The think I find bizarre is that after gaining 'their freedom from the English', they immediately want to give it away to the EU. :lol:

The think I find bizarre is that after gaining 'their freedom from the English', they immediately want to give it away to the EU. :lol:

Don't you think that the fact that former parts of the Soviet Union and their satellite states have willingly joined the EU means that rather a lot of people don't see it that way?

Every EU member state is a fully independent country capable of making its own decisions and you don't surrender sovereignty when you pool it. The UK is not pooled sovereignty. It is a colonial power dictating over what's left of its former Empire.

 

The UK and USSR and not in anyway equivalent to the EU.

Every EU member state is a fully independent country capable of making its own decisions and you don't surrender sovereignty when you pool it. The UK is not pooled sovereignty. It is a colonial power dictating over what's left of its former Empire.

 

You make it sound like England conquered Scotland, whereas it was actually a mutual arrangement to form a union.

And you make it sound like the EU conquered Europe, when it was a mutual agreement to join and together direct its future formed by and aided with the cooperation of 28 of the most peaceful governments on the planet.

 

and the Scottish riots against the Act of Union in 1707 were far from insignificant.

microphone dropped...!

You make it sound like England conquered Scotland, whereas it was actually a mutual arrangement to form a union.

They did.

 

When they couldn't win by force, they did so by economics. Killing off Scotland's attempt at Empire and then swooping in with the offer to reimburse the wealthy for their loses if they just signed the Act of Union. The rich sold Scotland to the English without the consent of the people of Scotland and as Iz said, the riots were hefty. So hefty the act was signed in secret.

They did.

 

 

When they couldn't win by force, they did so by economics. Killing off Scotland's attempt at Empire and then swooping in with the offer to reimburse the wealthy for their loses if they just signed the Act of Union. The rich sold Scotland to the English without the consent of the people of Scotland and as Iz said, the riots were hefty. So hefty the act was signed in secret.

 

You are Nicola Sturgeon, AICMFP. ;)

 

I didn't exactly see Scotland complaining when they shared in the economic opportunities of the Victorian era...

You are Nicola Sturgeon, AICMFP. ;)

 

I didn't exactly see Scotland complaining when they shared in the economic opportunities of the Victorian era...

 

You weren't born.

 

I didn't exactly see England complaining when they sent small children up chimneys, stuck countless people in factories with no holidays, no sick pay, no health service, no power while they ransacked far-flung countries and neighbouring countries plundering natural resources for their own benefit while assisting in genocide of the local population.

 

People who write the history books, by and large, are the rich ones benefitting from the system. The underclass depend on rich people with social consciences trying to do something about it. The poor ones that tried tended to get sent to the colonies as rabble-rousers, at best.

 

As I say over and over life isn't black & white it is, and always will be, shades of grey, there are always consequences to everything, both good and bad, and whether they are good or bad depends entirely on your viewpoint and how you perceive you are doing out of it.

You weren't born.

 

Well, duh! I didn't mean it in the literal sense. :rolleyes:

Well, duh! I didn't mean it in the literal sense. :rolleyes:

How about reading the whole post?

How about reading the whole post?

 

I *did* read the whole post - I simply chose not to reply to it, as is my prerogative.

Can we keep discussion in here to the topic of Opinion Polls please?

 

In keeping with the theme of recent weeks.. this poll from YouGov shows that the Brexit Party have in the public's opinion a clear stance, but that the recently formed Change UK has a way to go yet with as many as 44% not sure. This is clearly a massive missed opportunity and probably an own-goal with respect to killing off a potential 2nd referendum when/if The Brexit Party establish a clear lead in the EU elections.

 

Who are the 3% that think the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit? It’s like that opinion poll a few years ago where 4% of people said they had been decapitated.

On the same measure. What rock are people living under if they think the SNP or the LD or Greens or PC are pro-Brexit?

On the same measure. What rock are people living under if they think the SNP or the LD or Greens or PC are pro-Brexit?

 

Alas, not everyone is as well-informed as we are. :mellow:

 

The interesting takeaway from that poll is that far more people seem to view Labour as an anti-Brexit party... when they're not. They're struggling to agree on whether a second referendum is necessary (meanwhile the complete Conservative split is mildly funny)

 

The other thing is that Lib Dems being only at 53% is far worse than they should be hoping for, even disregarding that UKIP and Brexit stances should be fairly self-explanatory, the idea would be to be level with about where the SNP currently are.