May 14, 20196 yr The only way of upholding democracy is to accept that the advisory referendum was won fraudulently and that, therefore, the result should be disregarded. If you *like* civil unrest, yes... :rolleyes:
May 14, 20196 yr Parliament is sovereign. Parliament legislated for an advisory referendum. A statement from the PM cannot override that. The obvious answer to that is that the people are sovereign.
May 14, 20196 yr The obvious answer to that is that the people are sovereign. Quite so, Parliament derives their power from The People.
May 14, 20196 yr If you *like* civil unrest, yes... :rolleyes: errr, it's Remainers who should be pissed off at an illegally financed referendum and rioting. Threatening civil unrest as the end result of ignoring illegality and having actual democracy is not democracy. Just as having a final people's say on any agreed Brexit, or Hard Brexit, is not ignori.ng democracy. Tried to tell 2 Brexit friends this on holiday, just try saying "You don;t know why everyone voted Brexit" or "You can;t read the kinds of 17.4million people" or "Nigel Farage lied during the campaign when he said he wanted the Norway option" and you get abuse: "Shut up! Lallalalalalalalal, not listening. Don;t care what you say. Don;t care wghat you think. Don;t care. Lalalalalalal" So, Brexit fans have reached the stage where they can;t even be f***ed trying to argue a case at all, because they actually really don;t give a f*** what happens, they are so blinkered and obsessed and now want just any old piece of shit even if it ruins the country.
May 14, 20196 yr The obvious answer to that is that the people are sovereign. In a parliamentary democracy, parliament is sovereign.
May 14, 20196 yr In a parliamentary democracy, parliament is sovereign. Remind me - from whom does Parliament derive their power?
May 14, 20196 yr errr, it's Remainers who should be pissed off at an illegally financed referendum and rioting. Threatening civil unrest as the end result of ignoring illegality and having actual democracy is not democracy. I was not threatening it, merely warning of the possible consequences, based on what has happened in other countries who have tried ignoring the result of a democratic vote... :mellow:
May 14, 20196 yr I was not threatening it, merely warning of the possible consequences, based on what has happened in other countries who have tried ignoring the result of a democratic vote... :mellow: I think inviting it and/or scaremongering more than warning though, no? Also, it is not the first time the result of a narrowly won democratic vote was ignored in THIS country.
May 14, 20196 yr I was not threatening it, merely warning of the possible consequences, based on what has happened in other countries who have tried ignoring the result of a democratic vote... :mellow: countries which run fixed non-democratic votes are not by and large "democracies" in any real sense. They are usually dictatorships aided and abetted by sections of the population that happen to like said non-democratic BS. We can sort all the arguing and accusations and lies and promises and bullying out with one simple solution. Ask people what they want, and make sure they have the facts, and there is no interference from rich foreign billionaires and hostile countries shit-stirring. Brexit will either go ahead quickly, as agreed, go ahead with a Hard Brexit, or not go ahead at all. Decision sorted BY THE PEOPLE. THAT is called democracy when everyone finds they have a system that can't come to a clear agreed solution and spends eternity arguing. Brexiters Trying to Project Fear an argument is the biggest laughable hypocritical desperate, when they have spent years arguing facts and logical prohectyions of what will happen as Project Fear, and then when they turn out to be true resort to scaremongering rather than accept the ballot box as a solution. Total Project Fear. The technique currently being used by some: "I want my way and I'm going to hold my breath and scream and bully until I get my way and I dont want democracy sorting it out because I know what 17.4 million think (even the 2 million dead ones and those who weren;t old enough to vote) because I have telepathy" Especially by those that have changed their minds since the referendum about the Norway/Canada/Fantasy Football league Options that all said was a piece of piss and certain to have been sorted inside 12 months, and now want a No-Deal Brexit which most people know will be hugely damaging when they all lied it would be marvellous. Basically everyone in the illegally-funded, data-stolen Cambridge Anal-Lickita still being FBI investigated and especially Nigel (I heart Assange, Le Pen, Hitler Youth songs, Trump & Putin) Farage, still a "person of interest" for anti-democratic practices. Just a reminder that everytime you try and call it undemocratic, I'm going to list why it's Remainers who should be rioting in the streets indignant at having their democratic rights ignored. At length.
May 14, 20196 yr Remind me - from whom does Parliament derive their power? The sovereign. Clearly you also need reminding that MPs are representatives, not delegates. They are required to vote for what they believe to be in the best interests of the country.
May 14, 20196 yr I was not threatening it, merely warning of the possible consequences, based on what has happened in other countries who have tried ignoring the result of a democratic vote... :mellow: What, like the Swiss referendum that was annulled recently? Perhaps the reports of riots have been suppressed.
May 14, 20196 yr The sovereign. Clearly you also need reminding that MPs are representatives, not delegates. They are required to vote for what they believe to be in the best interests of the country. And if necessary, suffer the consequences of defying the electorate, incidentally STV would make it far easier to punish MP's for such transgressions.
May 14, 20196 yr What, like the Swiss referendum that was annulled recently? Perhaps the reports of riots have been suppressed. What was that referendum about?
May 14, 20196 yr What was that referendum about? Tax. The Swiss government also ignored a referendum on freedom of movement because they ruled that staying in the single market was more important. Again, no riots.
May 15, 20196 yr Tax. The Swiss government also ignored a referendum on freedom of movement because they ruled that staying in the single market was more important. Again, no riots. Why is it that countries can't be in the single market without freedom of movement... Ah right, just because the EU says so. :rolleyes: Edited May 15, 20196 yr by vidcapper
May 15, 20196 yr Why is it that countries can't be in the single market without freedom of movement... Ah right, just because the EU says so. :rolleyes: It’s a fundamental part of a single market. It really is that simple :rolleyes:
May 15, 20196 yr Because you can’t have a true single market that allows for the free movement of goods, services and capital without also allowing for the free movement of labour. Freedom of movement allows people to take jobs anywhere in Europe and contribute to building a strong economy for the continent. Like the other 3 freedoms the freedom of movement comes with a truck load of legislation that allows us to exercise control over migration from other EU states. The UKs failure to implement these controls is not a failure of the EU Don’t confuse free movement of EU nationals with the immigration rights of non-EU nationals. Non-EU nationals do not have the right to free movement and must have a visa from the country they live/work in and that visa is the limited to that country alone. If they want a holiday to another EU country they need a visa, even if that country is a Schengen state.
May 15, 20196 yr It’s a fundamental part of a single market. It really is that simple :rolleyes: It's a 'fundamental part' only because the EU says it is - nothing more.
May 15, 20196 yr It's a 'fundamental part' only because the EU says it is - nothing more. No, EU member states agreed it. "The EU" cannot decree anything without the agreement pf member states and the European parliament.
May 15, 20196 yr No, it's fundamental because each of the states that constitute the EU have different relative advantages over others in labour, capital, goods and services - it provides a more level playing field.
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