Nope It's all vey vague meaning that if there's enough public support for change there will be one but the British pm has to believe that of which a Tory never will just like in Scotland.

OMG they had a referendum in 2014 and voted to stay part of the UK. One a generation is fair enough, in say 10-15 years time. They won't get one under Boris.

The right of self-determination is set under international law, denying Scotland the right to self-determination is against international law. There will be a second referendum, it will be on a timetable set out by the democratically elected government of Scotland. Arrogant English politicians mouthing off and denying us our right to self-determination just continue to build the case for Independence every day.

 

No Unionist is capable of saying anything other than "No Indyref2", they can't present a positive case for remaining in the Union because there isn't one.

 

I wouldn't go to Scotland in a million years. I don't like the cold.

Good. I speak on behalf of my entire nation when I say that we absolutely do not want you. Not now, not ever.

 

If the snp get a majority in the assembly elections in the next 12 months then the pressure will be huge and the choice will not be the PMs to make potentially(although it's ridiculous that the Scottish, Irish & Welsh are at the whim of the British pm to play out their democratic right).

The Secretary of State for Scottish Oppression stated today that there wouldn't be a poll in Sturgeons lifetime even if the SNP got a majority, so this is going to be a fun couple of years.

 

Plus, the electoral system at Holyrood was specifically designed to ever prevent the Nationalists getting a majority. 2011 was a pure fluke that won't be repeated.

Although saying that, Spain ignores that rule r.e giving Cataluña and Pais Vasco the right to a referendum. The Tories might just do the same. Thry KNOW what the result will be now that they lied to Scotland r.e the wu and what a mess brexshit and a tory majority both are.

Although saying that, Spain ignores that rule r.e giving Cataluña and Pais Vasco the right to a referendum. The Tories might just do the same. Thry KNOW what the result will be now that they lied to Scotland r.e the wu and what a mess brexshit and a tory majority both are.

There's a difference tho. Catalunya is actually nothing more than a region within Spain. Scotland is basically a nation inside a nation

 

The SNP probs feel towards the UK, the same way the English felt towards the EU, bit y'know hypocrisy etc

 

(I am not an expert on this topic so dont shoot me if I'm not 100% right, I go off what I've been reading about it)

I agree with Tim. I really hate the way Spain has been acting, and that the UK is following in their footsteps. All it does is fuel the fire. If Spain had let them have a referendum there is a good likelihood it would have failed and set the Catalan separatists back. Now all Madrid have done is further their cause and tip it into success.

 

 

There's no animosity or hatred towards London, it's just that the UK no longer works for us. England and Scotland fundamentally want different things for their future and denying Scotland's voice is an unacceptable democratic deficit. We're the last major colony of the English empire and we're over it tbh

Newcastle and Liverpool need to come with.

The right of self-determination is set under international law, denying Scotland the right to self-determination is against international law. There will be a second referendum, it will be on a timetable set out by the democratically elected government of Scotland. Arrogant English politicians mouthing off and denying us our right to self-determination just continue to build the case for Independence every day.

 

Plus, the electoral system at Holyrood was specifically designed to ever prevent the Nationalists getting a majority. 2011 was a pure fluke that won't be repeated.

 

Who's denying that right? You *had* a referendum in 2014!

 

You're arguing *against* a PR voting system? :huh:

 

There's no animosity or hatred towards London, it's just that the UK no longer works for us. England and Scotland fundamentally want different things for their future and denying Scotland's voice is an unacceptable democratic deficit. We're the last major colony of the English empire and we're over it tbh

 

I find it ironic that Scotland argues that UK needs the EU so as not to be a 'small fish in a big pond', yet wants to do the same isolation trick itself?

Self- determination isn’t a one time thing. Circumstances had fundamentally changed since 2014 and what 55% naively voted to remain part of no longer exists

 

Did I say anything bad about our voting system? Naw. I’ve sung it’s praises before. Pointing out that it was designed to prevent majority governments and therefore saying “if the SNP get a majority” is a high bar designed to be failed

 

As for your last sentence I’ve nae clue wtf you’re on about. Scotland wants to get away from England’s isolationism, remain part of the EU and work on a global basis through organisations such as the EU to be a leader in tackling climate change.

Self- determination isn’t a one time thing. Circumstances had fundamentally changed since 2014 and what 55% naively voted to remain part of no longer exists

 

Did I say anything bad about our voting system? Naw. I’ve sung it’s praises before. Pointing out that it was designed to prevent majority governments and therefore saying “if the SNP get a majority” is a high bar designed to be failed

 

As for your last sentence I’ve nae clue wtf you’re on about. Scotland wants to get away from England’s isolationism, remain part of the EU and work on a global basis through organisations such as the EU to be a leader in tackling climate change.

 

1. It's somewhat patronising to suggest that the 55% were naive. :mellow:

 

2. Any proportional system rarely gives a party 50% of the votes/seats, so to suggest it was designed that way is a bit of a stretch. Also, I suspect the desire for Independence is somewhat overstated, due to the way FPTP distorts results - 48/59 seats, but on only 45% of the vote share.

 

3. I may be cynical, but I suspect the main reason Scots want to remain in the EU is that, as a small nation, they would be a net recipient. It may be stating the obvious, but they would have even less influence in the EU than they do in the UK.

1. It's somewhat patronising to suggest that the 55% were naive. :mellow:

 

2. Any proportional system rarely gives a party 50% of the votes/seats, so to suggest it was designed that way is a bit of a stretch. Also, I suspect the desire for Independence is somewhat overstated, due to the way FPTP distorts results - 48/59 seats, but on only 45% of the vote share.

 

3. I may be cynical, but I suspect the main reason Scots want to remain in the EU is that, as a small nation, they would be a net recipient. It may be stating the obvious, but they would have even less influence in the EU than they do in the UK.

The electoral system for Scotland was specifically designed to make it difficult for one party to win a majority. That was made very clear at the time. Of course, as a sign of how things have changed, it was partly to avoid criticism that Labour were creating a Parliament where they would have a majority for evermore.

The electoral system for Scotland was specifically designed to make it difficult for one party to win a majority. That was made very clear at the time. Of course, as a sign of how things have changed, it was partly to avoid criticism that Labour were creating a Parliament where they would have a majority for evermore.

 

So the SNP are now benefiting from a system designed to stop Labour, not them!

2. Any proportional system rarely gives a party 50% of the votes/seats, so to suggest it was designed that way is a bit of a stretch. Also, I suspect the desire for Independence is somewhat overstated, due to the way FPTP distorts results - 48/59 seats, but on only 45% of the vote share.

 

3. I may be cynical, but I suspect the main reason Scots want to remain in the EU is that, as a small nation, they would be a net recipient. It may be stating the obvious, but they would have even less influence in the EU than they do in the UK.

Dangerous game for a Brexiteer to play in light of what happened last month.

 

I suspect it's because Scotland rejected the toxic mess that were the two Leave campaigns, and not because it is a country slightly richer than the European average and so would expect to make a net contribution. Oh and that the UK and the EU are quite obviously not the same things and have very different identities, which anyone arguing in good faith, on both sides of the debate (pro-UK Scots are increasingly anti-EU whereas anti-UK Scots are increasingly pro-EU), would happily recognise.

So the SNP are now benefiting from a system designed to stop Labour, not them!

The SNP would be even more dominant in Holyrood were it not for PR. They are not benefiting from it - smaller parties such as the Tories are benefiting from it.

Edited January 13, 20205 yr by Harve

The SNP would be even more dominant in Holyrood were it not for PR. They are not benefiting from it - smaller parties such as the Tories are benefiting from it.

 

That's the whole point of PR, smaller parties not getting swamped by FPTP.

That's the whole point of PR, smaller parties not getting swamped by FPTP.

Yes, and that's the opposite of what you originally claimed.

Yes, and that's the opposite of what you originally claimed.

 

In which post? :huh:

So the SNP [largest party] are now benefiting from a system designed to stop Labour, not them!

That's the whole point of PR, smaller parties not getting swamped by FPTP.

 

So tiresome.

They gotta be kidding, thinking a poll of 1500 people means more than the GE... :rolleyes:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...l-a9279996.html

The fact that even 15% expect to be better off show jsut how much people have been brainwashed and gaslit by the ruling classes here!

The fact that even 15% expect to be better off show jsut how much people have been brainwashed and gaslit by the ruling classes here!

 

Are you accusing them of using hyperbole?