Debating how many genders there are is a taboo subject - I've learned not to even *attempt* to start a thread on it as I'd get accused of trolling, or on other matters that 'progressives' seem to consider sacred. :mellow:

 

Also, I don't hate Remainers, although some seem to hate me for no reason other than I will no longer debate with them.

 

Back to the point - I'm talking of a situation where a trans person looks androgenous, and you make an honest mistake, *not* a deliberate attempt to offend.

There's really no possible discussion about that - each person can decide how to identify and you are in no position to dictate how they should feel. Simple as. As far as finding more about all the genders that exist, it's perfectly fine to ask questions unless you are mocking the subject.

 

Regarding your last sentence, you just ask what pronouns they use and apologise in this situation. And it's hard for me to imagine any trans person being SO offended about being mistakenly misgendered they will consider it a "hate crime" :lol: If there's no malicious intent and you keep an open mind it will show. You also have to remember that some people have to deal with misgendering on a daily basis which makes it all a tad complicated.

Debating how many genders there are is a taboo subject - I've learned not to even *attempt* to start a thread on it as I'd get accused of trolling, or on other matters that 'progressives' seem to consider sacred. :mellow:

 

Also, I don't hate Remainers, although some seem to hate me for no reason other than I will no longer debate with them.

 

Back to the point - I'm talking of a situation where a trans person looks androgenous, and you make an honest mistake, *not* a deliberate attempt to offend.

What I'm reading here is I really am transphobic and find the idea of different genders confusing/annoying me but I'm not going to post that so I don't get banned from my precious forum.

 

Boring. In your own words 'very droll' darling.

:thinking: :thinking:

What I'm reading here is I really am transphobic and find the idea of different genders confusing/annoying me but I'm not going to post that so I don't get banned from my precious forum.

 

Boring. In your own words 'very droll' darling.

 

Are you trying to goad me into posting something that'll get me banned? If so, that would be trolling, and so you risk getting banned yourself... :thinking:

Edited January 29, 20205 yr by vidcapper

:thinking: :thinking:

 

Are you trying to goad me into posting something that'll get me banned? If so, that would be trolling, and so you risk getting banned yourself... :thinking:

Just trying to know what your opinion on Trans people is really seeing as you're being very secretive about it, that's all. I have to make assumptions as you never actually post your own true opinions ever.

 

For the record, as Pavel said, just respect peoples pronouns and to not deliberately call people by the wrong pronoun as a jibe, then you'll be fine. If you misgender them mistakenly and rectify it, then it wouldn't be seen as 'hate crime' and I'm sure you know that.

 

 

Debating how many genders there are is a taboo subject - I've learned not to even *attempt* to start a thread on it as I'd get accused of trolling, or on other matters that 'progressives' seem to consider sacred. :mellow:

 

Also, I don't hate Remainers, although some seem to hate me for no reason other than I will no longer debate with them.

 

Back to the point - I'm talking of a situation where a trans person looks androgenous, and you make an honest mistake, *not* a deliberate attempt to offend.

Science moves on. It is now generally accepted that there are people who don't fit comfortably into a simple "male or female" categorisation. Why can't you accept that in the same way that people once had to accept that the Earth orbits the sun rather than vice versa?

I feel like this is a parallel argument, two separate tracks going on here, rather than two groups discussing the same issue.

 

Vidcapper is talking about language use change, how sometimes it can be hard to keep up & how people fear they may be criminally prosecuted for making an error in ignorance or confusion.

 

Other folk are more familiar with pronouns as an element of politeness now and, I think are assuming that the only way one might not be is if they were going out of their way to be rude.

 

On this issue, I don't think that's the case - I think that might be a conclusion that's being jumped to.

Science moves on. It is now generally accepted that there are people who don't fit comfortably into a simple "male or female" categorisation. Why can't you accept that in the same way that people once had to accept that the Earth orbits the sun rather than vice versa?

 

I *do* accept it, but it is still contrary to the prevailing scientific opinion when I was growing up. Changing older peoples opinions is not an easy matter - often the best you can hope for is for them to keep their views to themselves, and wait for old age to claim them. :mellow:

I feel like this is a parallel argument, two separate tracks going on here, rather than two groups discussing the same issue.

 

Vidcapper is talking about language use change, how sometimes it can be hard to keep up & how people fear they may be criminally prosecuted for making an error in ignorance or confusion.

 

Other folk are more familiar with pronouns as an element of politeness now and, I think are assuming that the only way one might not be is if they were going out of their way to be rude.

 

On this issue, I don't think that's the case - I think that might be a conclusion that's being jumped to.

That's pretty preposterous and far-fetched though. (For the UK*, that is)

 

*Scotland-free as of 202X xxo

That's pretty preposterous and far-fetched though. (For the UK*, that is)

 

*Scotland-free as of 202X xxo

 

I agree, but it was just my observation of the position.

I *do* accept it, but it is still contrary to the prevailing scientific opinion when I was growing up. Changing older peoples opinions is not an easy matter - often the best you can hope for is for them to keep their views to themselves, and wait for old age to claim them. :mellow:

It's probably going to be only your generation's problem. People have much easier access to information now so this will increase self-awareness when they get to the age of 50+

 

Still, old age is not an excuse to be ignorant and arrogant enough to not want to understand where the other person's coming from.

I *do* accept it, but it is still contrary to the prevailing scientific opinion when I was growing up. Changing older peoples opinions is not an easy matter - often the best you can hope for is for them to keep their views to themselves, and wait for old age to claim them. :mellow:

I'm older than you are. Yes, it is sometimes difficult to change attitudes and opinions, but we should all be prepared to do that if the facts change. Some time in the not too distant future, people will have to get used to singing different words to the national anthem. I'm sure a lot of people who struggle to change their attitudes towards gender will not take too kindly to those who continue to use the current words.

My parents are older than your generation also vidcapper, they have no difficulty with any of this and in fact they find it quite interesting. They don't get it right all of the time (and nor do I to be honest) but, as Pavel says, nobody minds having to explain if there isn't a sense of malice or hatred behind it from the other person.

 

I also know younger people who don't want to change their views on it, it's not the age of the person but the character.

it's not the age of the person but the character.

 

EXACTLY! Bravo. Excellent point well presented.

My parents are older than your generation also vidcapper, they have no difficulty with any of this and in fact they find it quite interesting. They don't get it right all of the time (and nor do I to be honest) but, as Pavel says, nobody minds having to explain if there isn't a sense of malice or hatred behind it from the other person.

 

I also know younger people who don't want to change their views on it, it's not the age of the person but the character.

 

In George Orwell's '1984' he coined the name 'Goodthinker' for someone who instinctively said the right thing. That's just not me :rolleyes: I have to consider my words carefully to remain polite / not accidentally give offence, and doing so can sometimes be a right PITA. :mellow: Should my attempt be given approval, or condemned because I have to make it? :unsure:

Edited January 29, 20205 yr by vidcapper

Well not everyone can be godthinkers as you put it. However fortunately for you the medium of a forum gives you ample time to think before you click post!

Farage's mic cut off in European parliament. :D

 

 

The Withdrawal Agreement is being debated today in the Parliament and Farage's departing speech said that the UK is too big to bully and that the EU isn't just undemocratic but anti-democratic,.

 

And the Brexit MEPs began to wave their Union Jacks.

 

Today's chair Mairead McGuinness cut Farage's microphone off and told him to "Put your flags away, you're leaving and take them with you ....goodbye"

Edited January 29, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

Farage also said "bye. you'll miss us but we won't miss you"

And there goes the last bit of dignity of the UK lmao

Such childish behaviour

How dare they cut his microphone off. :angry:

 

Just seen it. He was mid-sentence and was silenced. :o

Edited January 29, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

What a pathetic individual. The BBTory has a lot to answer for, promoting that empty cretin just because he's from the establishment upper classes! Disgusting toff.

 

Also did that establishment piece of shit JUST USE THE ROYAL WE?! Quick reminder: 27% of the population voted for brexshit. Another fun fact: it was a 50 50 split vote. Sooo, who's we? ;) At least 50% of us - at LEAST - will miss the EU. The brexshit mps will miss it for their easy paydays, but Europe and the MEPs won't miss the brexshitters.