Excellent Tory win in Hartlepool. Once again Labour have the WRONG leader. Get Sadiq Khan in, seems a vote winner. He'll be the next Labour PM.

@1390548710153654272

 

Pathetic turnout but a total destruction

Didn't expect the Tories to win an outright plurality of the votes, looks like that opinion poll was more on the money than I expected. The Great Realignment continues apace.

Terrible from Starmer. His shadow cabinet is too bland and stale and safe. I mean look at Biden in America, he has realised that the voters the Dems lost were old blue collar workers and has shown he will invest in them Starmer has done nothing but appeal to the toxic Labour right.

Edited May 7, 20214 yr by steve201

The Labour messaging this morning is pathetic. "We haven't changed quickly enough?" If you going to be changing towards the Tories, then voters will just say to themselves, then why not vote for the real thing.

 

That is an awful result for an opposition party and one a governing party would be ecstatic at.

 

(by the way, this big Tory coalition cannot last, it will come crumbling down, either through leafy southern suburbs or their new voters feeling betrayed, depends on the hopefully CONCRETE and MEANINGFUL direction the Labour party goes in, but it looks like they'd rather stumble towards Pasokification instead)

The conditions are incredibly favourable to the government and I certainly never expected any other result but that margin is huge and a terrible result.

The Labour messaging this morning is pathetic. "We haven't changed quickly enough?" If you going to be changing towards the Tories, then voters will just say to themselves, then why not vote for the real thing.

100% - there is absolutely NOTHING for the young of the UK to vote for with Labour as there is no positive vision whatsoever. It's clear as mud that all Starmer has done is move the Overton window socially to the right. OK a bolder, more progressive forward thinking Labour party may not have won these results but I'd wager the numbers would have been better and there would have been an energy about them. Now there is nothing and it feels like we've woken up in a small minded, authoritarian, flag waving country and I fear for our future.

100% - there is absolutely NOTHING for the young of the UK to vote for with Labour as there is no positive vision whatsoever. It's clear as mud that all Starmer has done is move the Overton window socially to the right. OK a bolder, more progressive forward thinking Labour party may not have won these results but I'd wager the numbers would have been better and there would have been an energy about them. Now there is nothing and it feels like we've woken up in a small minded, authoritarian, flag waving country and I fear for our future.

 

If Corbyn or someone else was in charge, Labour would also have got battered here. It's a terrible result, no hiding that. But it was always going to happen. Like I have said before the rhetoric is going to be from a certain angle, "we need to move to the left" - completely ignoring the fact that everyone has voted Tory. It's all very well and good taking a socialist approach to engage activisits and younger voters but Corbyn proved a somewhat toxic figure and he was never able to convince the middle-ground enough to vote for him, which is what is needed to secure an election victory. Think it is clear the Party haven't quite done enough to understand middle England and win these voters back. Feels like they need someone to harmonise the socialist and the more moderate side of the Party together, but there is no-one currently.

 

I think a lot of people are also forgetting the Boris factor. People love him in this country and he's that same sort of populist leader that so many voted for in Farage. I know it's totally baffling, but just look at Chris as an example.

If Corbyn or someone else was in charge, Labour would also have got battered here. It's a terrible result, no hiding that. But it was always going to happen. Like I have said before the rhetoric is going to be from a certain angle, "we need to move to the left" - completely ignoring the fact that everyone has voted Tory. It's all very well and good taking a socialist approach to engage activisits and younger voters but Corbyn proved a somewhat toxic figure and he was never able to convince the middle-ground enough to vote for him, which is what is needed to secure an election victory. Think it is clear the Party haven't quite done enough to understand middle England and win these voters back. Feels like they need someone to harmonise the socialist and the more moderate side of the Party together, but there is no-one currently.

 

I think a lot of people are also forgetting the Boris factor. People love him in this country and he's that same sort of populist leader that so many voted for in Farage. I know it's totally baffling, but just look at Chris as an example.

 

Most voters don't identify themselves on the 'left-right' axis, so even if the party moves to the left, that wouldn't necessarily be a losing strategy if it can promise things they can get behind - not a full part of the strategy but it'd also increase turnout. That also assumes the electorate is unchangeable, which it isn't (clearly, as it changed to the right over this last decade) particularly as Labour have made zero effort to change it. It's possible to reverse this decline, so that's as you say, someone to harmonise the socialist and other wings of the party to create a social democratic force that offers a new vision for the country. Problem is, that's been on the decline not just here, but also across Europe, and a lot of the time, those social democratic forces have given way to new forces (Germany) or just disappeared into irrelevance (France, Greece). The one big wave that the left has had recently internationally is populist democratic socialism - oldschool social democracy is having a tough time.

 

Tory strength is also a factor for sure. That can't last, but to make sure it can't last, Labour need to set out their shop and give people a vision for what the country will look like under their leadership. And the frontbench talent is woeful at doing that right now.

 

It's a lot of very good conditions for Tories and poor conditions for Labour, so this is pretty exaggerated, but this does show that Labour just isn't winning votes from... anyone like this. And that's a real problem.

Well I hope by needing people who are racist you mean deradicalise them through controlling the message because it won't be a pretty picture of a Labour government otherwise.

 

Doesn't seem like Labour are reversing their decline under Starmer - about the only consistent message I've heard from them over the past 2 years is 'under new management'. You'd expect this to be the point where, if Labour were doing well, they'd be approaching 2017 numbers. Instead it's still at 2015/2019.

 

(point is, Labour could win Brexit votes in 2017, without being racist, why can they not now?)

 

- of course, some of this is council specific.

 

You can't deradicalise everyone, the way I see it is the 2016 Referendum opened Genie in a the Bottle and kind of legitmised racism in a form of "it's ok to racist, but I'm not really racist". Some had a sense of shame about it, but others didn't. And still in 2021 the genie is not prepared to go back in the bottle. So Labour have got to do something to win these people back.

Corbyn did well in 2017, badly in 2019 mainly due to the Brexit disagreement and I think personally he wasn't strong enough to ride the despicable media storm against him. But he held the seat and share of the vote wasn't as bad as Starmer.

Johnson is ridiculously popular and that is a huge problem I agree. Someone with a more compelling vision has to rise above it. But no point being a fake but dull Boris in the meantime like Starmer did.

Corbyn did well in 2017, badly in 2019 mainly due to the Brexit disagreement and I think personally he wasn't strong enough to ride the despicable media storm against him. But he held the seat and share of the vote wasn't as bad as Starmer.

Johnson is ridiculously popular and that is a huge problem I agree. Someone with a more compelling vision has to rise above it. But no point being a fake but dull Boris in the meantime like Starmer did.

 

Corbyn would have lost today too. It was only the Brexit Party vote that stopped Labour losing the seat in 2019. Most Labour leaders would have lost today too. Labour need to understand why people did not vote for Brown, Milliband and Corbyn but they will vote for Cameron, Johnson (and to a lesser extent) May.

 

The results in Hartlepool are very interesting and probably as Iz stated earlier a huge reflection on the North East and Essex. I'm sure the likes of Owen Jones are already at it, but look how low the vote is for the Green Party or the Indy-left candidate. I'd say it's probably likely that a lot of the 'Red Wall' states favour localism and against state Party politics, so focusing on the local area rather than the machine.

 

Sounds like we need Dan Jarvis to ride around on a tank with a Union Jack flag!

God if w@nking over a union jack flag is what people want to make them happy then it'll be even sweeter when the Scots go their merry own way and the blue has to be removed!

Excellent Tory win in Hartlepool. Once again Labour have the WRONG leader. Get Sadiq Khan in, seems a vote winner. He'll be the next Labour PM.

Yes, because it would look really good if the first thing a newly re-elected Mayor did was to resign.

Excellent Tory win in Hartlepool. Once again Labour have the WRONG leader. Get Sadiq Khan in, seems a vote winner. He'll be the next Labour PM.

 

No Tory win is excellent. Blojo the Clown literally said "let the f***ing bodies pile hogh" and you still f***ing support him!!! He is corrupt af, all thr recent stories show that, and yet you worship the ground his putrid fetid feet walk on!!!

 

He better not resign though. How bad will it be if the pm who broke the ministerial code, was found to be the most corrupt pm in history, and had Starmer say on camera in the Commond should resign over, let the f***ing bodies pile high, is not thr one to resign. If Starmer resigns, the right wing will propagandise him saying that in parliament, with videos showing him saying that ... thrn showing HIM resigning. They will turn the whole thing into a joke and for Blojo and sidestep the disgusting nature of the comment.

The Labour messaging this morning is pathetic. "We haven't changed quickly enough?" If you going to be changing towards the Tories, then voters will just say to themselves, then why not vote for the real thing.

 

That is an awful result for an opposition party and one a governing party would be ecstatic at.

 

(by the way, this big Tory coalition cannot last, it will come crumbling down, either through leafy southern suburbs or their new voters feeling betrayed, depends on the hopefully CONCRETE and MEANINGFUL direction the Labour party goes in, but it looks like they'd rather stumble towards Pasokification instead)

 

Democracy is clearly on the way out, getting replaced by Tory authoritarianism. Even the BBTory just parrots the party line. This is a one party state. The Tory vote WILL hold thanks to constant gaslighting and propaganda. We are looking at a 100 year regime.

 

Then you get w*n**rs like Andrew Adonis coming on saying Labour need to be more like Tony Blair with a big picture of William Gladstone behind him!

I did try to warn Suedehead and Rooney - although his idea of centrism is being moderate right wing, even preferring weak authoritarian Mad May to Corbyn - that centrism is dead... Labour need to move left of centre and AVOID culture wars, building up a patriotism about investing and believing in Britain, Better for Britain, etc. They need to move to a position on Scottish indie. I recommend total federalism, or an EU-style union of independent UK nations, with a UK-wide defence managed by Westminster, thus not upsetting anybody with dekusions of British military grandeur. The Lib Dems need to generally become more left wing economically, whilst using their position as a third party ro focus on LOCAL CONCERNS WHEN CAMPAIGNING. No one expects them to get in, especially in a one party state, so hust improve their overall reputation as left wing, whilst focusing on individual seats and local issues. Meanwhile, with a move to the left, Green, SNP (perhaps, indie not withstanding) Lib Dems and Labour can have a more comfortable alliance, and Libs and Lab can revert to their Blair years understanding r.e seats. It is an uphill struggle in a one party state, where the government rules the media, but with a left wing alliance and an actual altetnative, they MIGHR scrape enough seats to bring in PR, rwset the culture wara, rejoin the single market, and reform the media and ban BBC news from eeeever reporting on UK politics again.

Agree that culture wars is a huge issue, not helped by the media’s reporting. Stuff like the banning of certain Dr Seuss books has far more resonance with people than who paid for the redecoration of Downing Street.

Agree that culture wars is a huge issue, not helped by the media’s reporting. Stuff like the banning of certain Dr Seuss books has far more resonance with people than who paid for the redecoration of Downing Street.

Even though no politician has banned a Dr Seuss book.