Putin is literally holding half of the country hostage and the other half is too brainwashed and/or ignorant to see the truth.

Pav, I thought you're slightly wrong in terms of the amount of brainwashed people, keeping faith in our people.

How right i was... modulo.

They are more than a half.

While I was talking to mates, colleagues, relatives, listening closely to everyone and letting them express properly what they really think, this Russian propaganda version was the most common point of view.

I even started to think myself, what was the real reason for all that bloody masquerade? I mean, I don't wanna dig deeper than I'm allowed to (as if I AM allowed to do it lol) but, if we could put imperialistic thoughts and health issues aside for a moment, maybe there was something else?

---

and yeah, the screws are turned tighter and tighter day by day, 'fake news' authors are promised to be jailed for 15 years (fake is what is not published by the officials, there we go), euro banknotes are not allowed for import, foreign currency over $10000 is now prohibited to export, two opposition mass media are blocked etc.

what else?

Also this means that even if Russia does successfully invade Ukraine completely, Russia will never be able to hold it. They will have barely any money or supplies or weapons. And most importantly the Ukrainian people don't want the Russian occupants in their country, they want them OUT. Meanwhile Ukraine will be trained up by NATO, 22 thousand Ukrainian soldiers have already been trained by the British under NATO, Ukraine will win either the short game or the long game.

 

Russia has lost already, they just don't know it yet.

 

Think this was always going to be the case unless the Russian speaking east had accepted them but even they are opposed to their actions.

I've been unable to stop thinking about this invasion since well before it actually came to pass, and naturally 95% of my thoughts have been about the suffering of Ukraine, but I'm despairing for Russia tonight. I would love for the Russian posters on here to correct me, but it feels like the country is rushing past the point of no return right now. I just can't help but find it chilling that despite such a serious deterioration in Russia's position and its domestic quality of life, there is still no wind of change. This is absolutely not a critique of the Russian people, but it worries me that the country is mid-transformation into a much larger North Korea (not just in terms of the economic and cultural isolation, but also the last gasps of independent media and curtailed freedom of movement for Russians), with the added bonus of inflicting its regime on neighbouring countries and threatening nuclear war (and therefore the destruction of the Russian people), and ... the response is extremely passive. I just can't fathom a situation in which a formidable domestic response to the Russian government can ever again be mustered up if this situation prompts only some small scale demonstrations.

 

Again, I want to stress that this is not a "jeez, why aren't you guys rebelling?" post. My full sympathy is with the Russian people and I am extremely privileged to be able to comment on this from afar. It's just one of the most hopeless situations I've ever seen, to see a regime do this much harm to its people and have those people be just this helpless in the face of it. If Ukraine ever gets out of this war, they have a path (if vague and difficult) towards a stable democracy and a brighter future. Russia feels like it's going quietly into the night and I don't want this international pariah imprisoning its citizens to be the status quo for the coming decades.

 

I don't know. If the above is totally ignorant and/or offensive, please do correct me. I'm just unable to comprehend the damage that one man is doing to so many nations at the moment. My thoughts are with all Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarusian posters. I'm proud of the international response to this, but I wish we could do so much more.

I've been unable to stop thinking about this invasion since well before it actually came to pass, and naturally 95% of my thoughts have been about the suffering of Ukraine, but I'm despairing for Russia tonight. I would love for the Russian posters on here to correct me, but it feels like the country is rushing past the point of no return right now. I just can't help but find it chilling that despite such a serious deterioration in Russia's position and its domestic quality of life, there is still no wind of change. This is absolutely not a critique of the Russian people, but it worries me that the country is mid-transformation into a much larger North Korea (not just in terms of the economic and cultural isolation, but also the last gasps of independent media and curtailed freedom of movement for Russians), with the added bonus of inflicting its regime on neighbouring countries and threatening nuclear war (and therefore the destruction of the Russian people), and ... the response is extremely passive. I just can't fathom a situation in which a formidable domestic response to the Russian government can ever again be mustered up if this situation prompts only some small scale demonstrations.

 

Again, I want to stress that this is not a "jeez, why aren't you guys rebelling?" post. My full sympathy is with the Russian people and I am extremely privileged to be able to comment on this from afar. It's just one of the most hopeless situations I've ever seen, to see a regime do this much harm to its people and have those people be just this helpless in the face of it. If Ukraine ever gets out of this war, they have a path (if vague and difficult) towards a stable democracy and a brighter future. Russia feels like it's going quietly into the night and I don't want this international pariah imprisoning its citizens to be the status quo for the coming decades.

 

I don't know. If the above is totally ignorant and/or offensive, please do correct me. I'm just unable to comprehend the damage that one man is doing to so many nations at the moment. My thoughts are with all Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarusian posters. I'm proud of the international response to this, but I wish we could do so much more.

 

I think if there is one absolutely tiny positive from this invasion is that it feels like the end for Putin and the path is potentially open for a more progressive Russia. I'm no Russia expert, but it does seem like after they disbanded the Soviet Union, Russia was moving towards a different path under that current leader, but gradually under Putin they have become more and more isolated against the West and imo has badly miscalculated the anger. The fact they are calling Putin war criminal - I just don't see any way back for him now. Of course a future leader could be even worse, but who knows. The problem is though, even if Putin is now a war criminal the UN or NATO are hardly going to waltz in to Russia and arrest him. Can only hope one of his allies turns on him.

Did anyone see the young mother and two young daughters, around 6, 7, arrested and thrown in a call for daring to leave a message and flowers outside the Ukrainian embassy in Moscow? Awful.

Well Putin is rumoured to be imposing martial law on Russia which will mean several conscientious objector Russians fleeing (although who would take them with Ukranian refugees as well). Plus there is thought he might carry out public executions of captured Ukranians. Assuming all comes to pass, I don't think any other leader could be any worse than this 21st century Hitler.

Edited March 3, 20223 yr by Smint

Extraordinary:

 

@1499298691156705282

 

 

 

Putin has told Macron he wants all of Ukraine, as if there was any doubt about that! He wants it to be a buffer state, no ifs oe buts, which means this will be a protracted war :(

Putin has told Macron he wants all of Ukraine, as if there was any doubt about that! He wants it to be a buffer state, no ifs oe buts, which means this will be a protracted war :(

 

Well if most of the ethnic Ukrainians are migrating away to NATO countries to the west, he can repopulate Ukraine with ethnic Russians who would theoretically be more loyal to him which I would guess would be what he wants to do.

Well if most of the ethnic Ukrainians are migrating away to NATO countries to the west, he can repopulate Ukraine with ethnic Russians who would theoretically be more loyal to him which I would guess would be what he wants to do.

 

It seems as if the tide is turning in Russia though with the under 40s, I can't see that going down too well. There's no way Putin can hold Ukraine. And personally I think Macron is an idiot for engaging directly with Putin, he's giving him the attention he craves.

Well Putin is rumoured to be imposing martial law on Russia which will mean several conscientious objector Russians fleeing (although who would take them with Ukranian refugees as well). Plus there is thought he might carry out public executions of captured Ukranians. Assuming all comes to pass, I don't think any other leader could be any worse than this 21st century Hitler.

 

Surely that is war propaganda??? I can't see why anyone, no matter how unhinged they were, would do that. We have got to have learned from history at this point.

 

It seems as if the tide is turning in Russia though with the under 40s, I can't see that going down too well. There's no way Putin can hold Ukraine. And personally I think Macron is an idiot for engaging directly with Putin, he's giving him the attention he craves.

 

There’s a French election soon….

Of course there’s now a fire at a nuclear power plant in Ukraine meaning we have potentially another Chernobyl on our hands.

Of course there’s now a fire at a nuclear power plant in Ukraine meaning we have potentially another Chernobyl on our hands.

 

How reckless and stupid can the Russian army get?

 

It might however be one possible and awful tactic the Russian army may use to get Ukraine to surrender : threaten the safety of one of the nuclear power plants if Ukraine doesnt surrender?

Of course there’s now a fire at a nuclear power plant in Ukraine meaning we have potentially another Chernobyl on our hands.

 

Avoided thankfully

How reckless and stupid can the Russian army get?

 

It might however be one possible and awful tactic the Russian army may use to get Ukraine to surrender : threaten the safety of one of the nuclear power plants if Ukraine doesnt surrender?

 

It's not reckless or stupid when you remember why they're doing it. It's calculates and evil. Maximum damage

Given the wind is blowing east into Russia, we can’t discount stupid entirely

Surely that is war propaganda??? I can't see why anyone, no matter how unhinged they were, would do that. We have got to have learned from history at this point.

That's the thing. You don't have to learn from history if you rewrite it completely and that's what he's been after for years already, it just became pretty obvious now.

 

The official propaganda materials about this """military operation""" were already sent out to schools so it must be true, right?

Exactly. People do learn from history - they learn all the techniques of propaganda and control. trump tried his utmost (and still is) in that regard, his own ex-wife said decades ago which book he kept on his bedside table. The same one Putin is playing from. Democracy is dead in Russia, he's now a power-mad dictator determined to deny freedom and open-ness and dissent and control the narrative.

 

What the West forgot was that he was always aiming for that, but they went along with letting him build his power and Empire up. His entire bunch of cronies are former KGB mates and childhood friends. That is the classic sign of someone who doesn't want anyone with an alternative viewpoint, or someone that might poison/shoot/knife him in the back. That's why he has his own private army of guards. They all have as much to lose as Putin now because they are all involved directly, and Putin won't be publicly visiting his adoring crowds any time in the future. Everyone is now a danger to him, he is bound to believe - or he wouldnt be shutting down information and protests.

 

 

This conflict is extremely worrying and horrific that with nuclear threat he can have so much power. Think it's clear that he's extremely unlikely to stop or any internal uprising will stop him. It's a bit of a waiting game to see how bad things are before we (NATO) try to escalate actions. Damned if you do (nuclear threat) and damned if you don't (appeasement).