November 19, 20222 yr I hate reviews like this which aren’t actually reviewing the music but taking any opportunities to have a pop at the girls.
November 20, 20222 yr It was a pretty accurate review in all fairness. Always annoys me when they say they went RnB to fit in with what was the popular sound in 2000 though. Pure pop was still a massive success in 2000 look at Britney, S Club 7 etc
November 20, 20222 yr It was a pretty accurate review in all fairness. Always annoys me when they say they went RnB to fit in with what was the popular sound in 2000 though. Pure pop was still a massive success in 2000 look at Britney, S Club 7 etc Exactly Britney, Christina, Five, Atomic Kitten, S Club, Steps, B*Witched etc were all huge at this point the RnB to fit in angle is such nonsense. They also totally ignore that Spice has a lot of RnB influences running through it and even Spiceworld touches on it in denying.
November 20, 20222 yr Yeha the whole 'they are trying to catch trends!!!!' was always crap and forced onto them. It always saddnes me that fans will refuse to allow them ever to 'grow' because it goes against their ideas of what the group should be. Artists grow and change, that should be celebrated. The girls' attempts at change were against the fact that people just wanted them to be boxed into a 'BUBBLEGUM POP AND NOTHING ELSE' type of box, whereas they often proved they could do many more genres. Yes, maybe Forever was too drastic a change, but it is quite telling that so-called fans just want them (still today) to be exactly as they were in 1996-1998 and nothing else is allowed... You saw that with the uproar against the more edgy and cool design of the original Spice25 design, which meant we ended up with that horrible front cover and logos for Spice25 and Wannabe25 where it was just terrible and tacky lol... I know that is a small thing, but it is always an attempt by a small group of fans to put them in their box, and it is quite upsetting to be honest...
November 20, 20222 yr Forever problem was the gap from Spice World and the american generic sound. They should have balanced pop and R&B together to keep Spice essence. They change was too drastic.
November 21, 20222 yr Actually, I don't disagree with anything said in the article, per se. But I do think it leaves out the main reasons for the album's failure...as have most retrospectives. Everyone talks about Geri's departure and switching the sound/producers as the reasons the whole project bombed...but articles rarely (never?) address the group barely promoting Forever and Virgin mishandling everything on top of that. I'm from the US so I can really only speak from the perspective here. People flat-out didn't know this album happened. The general public still doesn't know it happened. There were fans from 97/98 who didn't know this album happened (most of them that I know are like this...). How much can you blame the shift to r'n'b when the project was barely acknowledged by its creators and then promptly abandoned? So. With the article...I don't disagree with the perspectives it brings...but I do disagree with the headline. "Spice Girls Looked to 'Forever' to Extend Pop Dominance" Yeah, no. They didn't. At all. If I were writing something like this, I'd go with a headline like..."They Were A Pop Phenom Working With the World's Biggest Hitmakers: How Did the Spice Girls' Forever Fail?" And then I'd go into the behind-the-scenes stuff that actually sank the whole thing. And maybe that angle's too in-the-weeds for public consumption? It's easier to blame the simpler stuff.
November 21, 20222 yr The girls were in their mid-to-late-20s at that point - I'd assume they didn't *want* to do the pure pop sound that the teenagers were doing at the time. Biggest issue with the album is that you have people like Darkchild that just produced a billion other artists at the time. Admittingly, I think Forever has aged better than I expected it to, but when you look at the other Darkchild tracks released around that time it doesn't feel like they got their best work. Of course, the girls themselves being over it didn't help its fortunes at all.
November 21, 20222 yr I'd actually go out on a limb and say I think Darkchild was as good to the girls as any other artist. Maybe better. Yes, around that same time, he gave brilliant singles to Destiny's Child with Say My Name...to Jennifer Lopez with If You Had My Love...and to Toni Braxton with He Wasn't Man Enough (probably my favorite of his tracks). But. To me, what's key is that the other hit singles off of those albums weren't by Darkchild. Those artists got their hit from him and moved on to other collaborators. It was pretty regular for him to give one song to an artist per album. He thrived as a singles creator, not an album executive producer. To me, his work with the Spices actually towers over what he gave Whitney Houston, Britney, and (perhaps surprisingly) Michael Jackson. I definitely think Holler's a stronger comeback single than MJ's You Rock My World (a song I basically like...but it didn't have the oomph needed for a return of that magnitude). And if you think Forever sounds too same-y...listen to the other Darkchild material off MJ's Invincible album. The fact he gave the girls one brilliant single in Holler...another potential single in Tell Me Why...and a few more pretty good songs on one album...seems to actually be more than what he was giving others. And he always seemed to be genuinely proud of the work...talking about his hopes for a Grammy nomination even after the album tanked. Edited November 21, 20222 yr by Piers
November 22, 20222 yr Actually, I don't disagree with anything said in the article, per se. But I do think it leaves out the main reasons for the album's failure...as have most retrospectives. Everyone talks about Geri's departure and switching the sound/producers as the reasons the whole project bombed...but articles rarely (never?) address the group barely promoting Forever and Virgin mishandling everything on top of that. I'm from the US so I can really only speak from the perspective here. People flat-out didn't know this album happened. The general public still doesn't know it happened. There were fans from 97/98 who didn't know this album happened (most of them that I know are like this...). How much can you blame the shift to r'n'b when the project was barely acknowledged by its creators and then promptly abandoned? So. With the article...I don't disagree with the perspectives it brings...but I do disagree with the headline. "Spice Girls Looked to 'Forever' to Extend Pop Dominance" Yeah, no. They didn't. At all. If I were writing something like this, I'd go with a headline like..."They Were A Pop Phenom Working With the World's Biggest Hitmakers: How Did the Spice Girls' Forever Fail?" And then I'd go into the behind-the-scenes stuff that actually sank the whole thing. And maybe that angle's too in-the-weeds for public consumption? It's easier to blame the simpler stuff. I totally agree with this. The appetite for Spice Girls was still there, but really they killed their own momentum by not being together as a group when it came out. Obviously not just them, as the press had they KNIVES out for them everyday and in every single way. But the audiences always warmed up to the Spice Girls. Holler going #1 was great. Had they had more promo, even a fraction of the type of promo they used to do, as a group, then they probably would have sold more albums. No, Forever was probably never going to sell 1million copies in the UK, but with a proper era, it would have been close to that for sure! Again, had it come out in 1999 with a mix of r'n'b and pop songs, it would have been another straight up #1 hit!
November 22, 20222 yr Goodbye just came on and I was just thinking that there is a little talked about thing that we could demand from Forever25... The full version of the Orchestral Version of Goodbye. It is another holy grail of that era :teresa: Songs we know we could have and definitely exist but we never heard: Goodbye (Full Orchestral) Too Hot Overnight (1999 version) Treasure Go Go Go W.O.M.A.N. Other songs, already leaked we could see released: A Day In Your Life Right Back At Ya (Pop version) Pain Proof Give You What You Want If Ya Do I would also LOVE LOVE LOVE to have the demos for: Holler Let Love Lead The Way Tell Me Why Wasting My Time Oxygen If You Wanna Have Some Fun I think these would be pretty incredible to listen to :wub: What we will end up with: Holler (MAW Remix) Holler (MAW Tribal Instrumental) WOMAN (live at Earl's Court) :teresa: Edited November 22, 20222 yr by Mr.X
November 22, 20222 yr (double post im sorry, im super high in case you havent noticed from my posts lol) Edited November 22, 20222 yr by Mr.X
November 22, 20222 yr Goodbye just came on and I was just thinking that there is a little talked about thing that we could demand from Forever25... The full version of the Orchestral Version of Goodbye. It is another holy grail of that era :teresa: Songs we know we could have and definitely exist but we never heard: Goodbye (Full Orchestral) Too Hot Overnight (1999 version) Treasure Go Go Go W.O.M.A.N. Other songs, already leaked we could see released: A Day In Your Life Right Back At Ya (Pop version) Pain Proof Give You What You Want If Ya Do I would also LOVE LOVE LOVE to have the demos for: Holler Let Love Lead The Way Tell Me Why Wasting My Time Oxygen If You Wanna Have Some Fun I think these would be pretty incredible to listen to :wub: What we will end up with: Holler (MAW Remix) Holler (MAW Tribal Instrumental) WOMAN (live at Earl's Court) :teresa: The full orchestra version is out there
November 22, 20222 yr The full orchestra version is out there I think it’s labeled ‘orchestral master’
November 22, 20222 yr Ironically there’s probably more unreleased material for Forever 25 than the other albums? Edited November 22, 20222 yr by Spice Girls Net
November 22, 20222 yr Ironically there’s probably more unreleased material for Forever 25 than the other albums? More then Spice World for sure.
November 22, 20222 yr The full orchestra version is out there WHAT?! I thought the versions on YouTube were fan made? :blink:
November 22, 20222 yr Ironically there’s probably more unreleased material for Forever 25 than the other albums? Yep. They were recording throughout 1998 and also recorded across the summer of 1999 and Spring 2000, with different producers and different genres, so it makes sense for them to have various unheard demos in the vaults. We really must campaign for a Forever25 :cheer:
November 22, 20222 yr I still adore this album regardless of what anyone else says, I think it’s solid !
November 22, 20222 yr There are quite a few outtakes from Spice and they only released Feed Your Love. Likely Stories Serial Killer Pleasin' Me Overnight (1995 Version) Seven Days Image And Likeness Strong Enough At most I only see us getting Woman and one other unreleased track on Forever 25. The girls just don't want to release outtakes.
