I hate reviews like this which aren’t actually reviewing the music but taking any opportunities to have a pop at the girls.

It was a pretty accurate review in all fairness.

 

Always annoys me when they say they went RnB to fit in with what was the popular sound in 2000 though. Pure pop was still a massive success in 2000 look at Britney, S Club 7 etc

It was a pretty accurate review in all fairness.

 

Always annoys me when they say they went RnB to fit in with what was the popular sound in 2000 though. Pure pop was still a massive success in 2000 look at Britney, S Club 7 etc

 

Exactly Britney, Christina, Five, Atomic Kitten, S Club, Steps, B*Witched etc were all huge at this point the RnB to fit in angle is such nonsense. They also totally ignore that Spice has a lot of RnB influences running through it and even Spiceworld touches on it in denying.

Yeha the whole 'they are trying to catch trends!!!!' was always crap and forced onto them.

 

It always saddnes me that fans will refuse to allow them ever to 'grow' because it goes against their ideas of what the group should be. Artists grow and change, that should be celebrated.

 

The girls' attempts at change were against the fact that people just wanted them to be boxed into a 'BUBBLEGUM POP AND NOTHING ELSE' type of box, whereas they often proved they could do many more genres.

 

Yes, maybe Forever was too drastic a change, but it is quite telling that so-called fans just want them (still today) to be exactly as they were in 1996-1998 and nothing else is allowed...

 

You saw that with the uproar against the more edgy and cool design of the original Spice25 design, which meant we ended up with that horrible front cover and logos for Spice25 and Wannabe25 where it was just terrible and tacky lol... I know that is a small thing, but it is always an attempt by a small group of fans to put them in their box, and it is quite upsetting to be honest...

Forever problem was the gap from Spice World and the american generic sound.

They should have balanced pop and R&B together to keep Spice essence.

They change was too drastic.

The drastic change was a big problem.

Actually, I don't disagree with anything said in the article, per se. But I do think it leaves out the main reasons for the album's failure...as have most retrospectives. Everyone talks about Geri's departure and switching the sound/producers as the reasons the whole project bombed...but articles rarely (never?) address the group barely promoting Forever and Virgin mishandling everything on top of that.

 

I'm from the US so I can really only speak from the perspective here. People flat-out didn't know this album happened. The general public still doesn't know it happened. There were fans from 97/98 who didn't know this album happened (most of them that I know are like this...). How much can you blame the shift to r'n'b when the project was barely acknowledged by its creators and then promptly abandoned?

 

So. With the article...I don't disagree with the perspectives it brings...but I do disagree with the headline. "Spice Girls Looked to 'Forever' to Extend Pop Dominance" Yeah, no. They didn't. At all. If I were writing something like this, I'd go with a headline like..."They Were A Pop Phenom Working With the World's Biggest Hitmakers: How Did the Spice Girls' Forever Fail?" And then I'd go into the behind-the-scenes stuff that actually sank the whole thing. And maybe that angle's too in-the-weeds for public consumption? It's easier to blame the simpler stuff.

The girls were in their mid-to-late-20s at that point - I'd assume they didn't *want* to do the pure pop sound that the teenagers were doing at the time.

 

Biggest issue with the album is that you have people like Darkchild that just produced a billion other artists at the time. Admittingly, I think Forever has aged better than I expected it to, but when you look at the other Darkchild tracks released around that time it doesn't feel like they got their best work. Of course, the girls themselves being over it didn't help its fortunes at all.

I'd actually go out on a limb and say I think Darkchild was as good to the girls as any other artist. Maybe better.

 

Yes, around that same time, he gave brilliant singles to Destiny's Child with Say My Name...to Jennifer Lopez with If You Had My Love...and to Toni Braxton with He Wasn't Man Enough (probably my favorite of his tracks). But. To me, what's key is that the other hit singles off of those albums weren't by Darkchild. Those artists got their hit from him and moved on to other collaborators. It was pretty regular for him to give one song to an artist per album. He thrived as a singles creator, not an album executive producer.

 

To me, his work with the Spices actually towers over what he gave Whitney Houston, Britney, and (perhaps surprisingly) Michael Jackson. I definitely think Holler's a stronger comeback single than MJ's You Rock My World (a song I basically like...but it didn't have the oomph needed for a return of that magnitude). And if you think Forever sounds too same-y...listen to the other Darkchild material off MJ's Invincible album.

 

The fact he gave the girls one brilliant single in Holler...another potential single in Tell Me Why...and a few more pretty good songs on one album...seems to actually be more than what he was giving others. And he always seemed to be genuinely proud of the work...talking about his hopes for a Grammy nomination even after the album tanked.

Edited November 21, 20222 yr by Piers

Actually, I don't disagree with anything said in the article, per se. But I do think it leaves out the main reasons for the album's failure...as have most retrospectives. Everyone talks about Geri's departure and switching the sound/producers as the reasons the whole project bombed...but articles rarely (never?) address the group barely promoting Forever and Virgin mishandling everything on top of that.

 

I'm from the US so I can really only speak from the perspective here. People flat-out didn't know this album happened. The general public still doesn't know it happened. There were fans from 97/98 who didn't know this album happened (most of them that I know are like this...). How much can you blame the shift to r'n'b when the project was barely acknowledged by its creators and then promptly abandoned?

 

So. With the article...I don't disagree with the perspectives it brings...but I do disagree with the headline. "Spice Girls Looked to 'Forever' to Extend Pop Dominance" Yeah, no. They didn't. At all. If I were writing something like this, I'd go with a headline like..."They Were A Pop Phenom Working With the World's Biggest Hitmakers: How Did the Spice Girls' Forever Fail?" And then I'd go into the behind-the-scenes stuff that actually sank the whole thing. And maybe that angle's too in-the-weeds for public consumption? It's easier to blame the simpler stuff.

 

I totally agree with this. The appetite for Spice Girls was still there, but really they killed their own momentum by not being together as a group when it came out. Obviously not just them, as the press had they KNIVES out for them everyday and in every single way. But the audiences always warmed up to the Spice Girls.

 

Holler going #1 was great. Had they had more promo, even a fraction of the type of promo they used to do, as a group, then they probably would have sold more albums. No, Forever was probably never going to sell 1million copies in the UK, but with a proper era, it would have been close to that for sure!

 

Again, had it come out in 1999 with a mix of r'n'b and pop songs, it would have been another straight up #1 hit!

Goodbye just came on and I was just thinking that there is a little talked about thing that we could demand from Forever25...

 

The full version of the Orchestral Version of Goodbye. It is another holy grail of that era :teresa:

 

Songs we know we could have and definitely exist but we never heard:

 

Goodbye (Full Orchestral)

Too Hot

Overnight (1999 version)

Treasure

Go Go Go

W.O.M.A.N.

 

Other songs, already leaked we could see released:

 

A Day In Your Life

Right Back At Ya (Pop version)

Pain Proof

Give You What You Want

If Ya Do

 

I would also LOVE LOVE LOVE to have the demos for:

 

Holler

Let Love Lead The Way

Tell Me Why

Wasting My Time

Oxygen

If You Wanna Have Some Fun

 

I think these would be pretty incredible to listen to :wub:

 

What we will end up with:

 

Holler (MAW Remix)

Holler (MAW Tribal Instrumental)

WOMAN (live at Earl's Court)

 

:teresa:

Edited November 22, 20222 yr by Mr.X

(double post im sorry, im super high in case you havent noticed from my posts lol)

Edited November 22, 20222 yr by Mr.X

Goodbye just came on and I was just thinking that there is a little talked about thing that we could demand from Forever25...

 

The full version of the Orchestral Version of Goodbye. It is another holy grail of that era :teresa:

 

Songs we know we could have and definitely exist but we never heard:

 

Goodbye (Full Orchestral)

Too Hot

Overnight (1999 version)

Treasure

Go Go Go

W.O.M.A.N.

 

Other songs, already leaked we could see released:

 

A Day In Your Life

Right Back At Ya (Pop version)

Pain Proof

Give You What You Want

If Ya Do

 

I would also LOVE LOVE LOVE to have the demos for:

 

Holler

Let Love Lead The Way

Tell Me Why

Wasting My Time

Oxygen

If You Wanna Have Some Fun

 

I think these would be pretty incredible to listen to :wub:

 

What we will end up with:

 

Holler (MAW Remix)

Holler (MAW Tribal Instrumental)

WOMAN (live at Earl's Court)

 

:teresa:

 

 

The full orchestra version is out there

 

The full orchestra version is out there

I think it’s labeled ‘orchestral master’

Ironically there’s probably more unreleased material for Forever 25 than the other albums?

Edited November 22, 20222 yr by Spice Girls Net

Ironically there’s probably more unreleased material for Forever 25 than the other albums?

 

More then Spice World for sure.

 

The full orchestra version is out there

 

WHAT?! I thought the versions on YouTube were fan made? :blink:

Ironically there’s probably more unreleased material for Forever 25 than the other albums?

 

Yep. They were recording throughout 1998 and also recorded across the summer of 1999 and Spring 2000, with different producers and different genres, so it makes sense for them to have various unheard demos in the vaults.

 

We really must campaign for a Forever25 :cheer:

I still adore this album regardless of what anyone else says, I think it’s solid !

There are quite a few outtakes from Spice and they only released Feed Your Love.

 

Likely Stories

Serial Killer

Pleasin' Me

Overnight (1995 Version)

Seven Days

Image And Likeness

Strong Enough

 

At most I only see us getting Woman and one other unreleased track on Forever 25. The girls just don't want to release outtakes.