Thing with Jesy is that she's been problematic for years. Remember when she was constantly recording herself on Instagram listening to R. Kelly (the same time his documentary dropped??) and then when she got criticised for it she carried on by listening to Chris Brown instead. It doesn't make her a bad person but it just shows either a complete lack of self awareness or sheer arrogance and an idea that she'll 'do what she wants' and anyone who speaks against her is a 'hater'.

 

I have every sympathy for her with her body image issues (honestly, I do) and think she's very talented and I wish she stayed in Little Mix but I feel like her solo career is something she'll regret. She simply cannot handle criticism.

 

It's a shame because the other girls were literally in tears on her documentary about how much they loved her and wanted to protect her from everything and it's just such a....waste that it's come to this. Three girls are still together and winning Brit Awards, racking up more and more hit singles and riding a wave of public goodwill and establishing themselves as proper legends in the industry and Jesy is about to release a song with Nicki at the worst possible time of her career (Nicki's) and is already getting called out and attention on her for blackfishing and her attitude towards Little Mix.

 

I agree with everything here.

I know this is probably not the place to ask but why can’t Jesy dress a certain way? Why is it disrespectful for her to wear corn rows for example or over tan? Why is it not the same when Mel B straightens her hair as it is for Jesy to make her hair look more like an afro? Or for white people to wear Indian saris but not for Indian people to wear traditional European / Americanised clothing? I probably sound incredibly ignorant but I don’t understand. What about it is cultural appropriation and not just admiration or respect for the culture?

 

Also what about people who tan naturally as some people go very dark when they tan some people don’t at all, is it still wrong to do it if that is your natural colour in the sun? Or those who bleach their skin to go paler (which I find horrendously sad) is that not the same?

 

I don’t mean to sound ignorant. As someone who hates racism I genuinely would like to understand why?

Why what’s up with Nikki at the min?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/aug/...neth-petty-sued

I know this is probably not the place to ask but why can’t Jesy dress a certain way? Why is it disrespectful for her to wear corn rows for example or over tan? Why is it not the same when Mel B straightens her hair as it is for Jesy to make her hair look more like an afro? Or for white people to wear Indian saris but not for Indian people to wear traditional European / Americanised clothing? I probably sound incredibly ignorant but I don’t understand. What about it is cultural appropriation and not just admiration or respect for the culture?

 

Also what about people who tan naturally as some people go very dark when they tan some people don’t at all, is it still wrong to do it if that is your natural colour in the sun? Or those who bleach their skin to go paler (which I find horrendously sad) is that not the same?

 

I don’t mean to sound ignorant. As someone who hates racism I genuinely would like to understand why?

 

I asked this a while back because I also didn't understand it. To my understanding it's essentially that white artists can take aspects of black culture and adjust their image to look more racially ambiguous (grills, tan, wigs, clothing) and go for the whole 'urban' thing and it's seen as cool and edgy and a fashion statement but they can erase it all when they're bored and go back to looking like a white person whenever they want. Again it's more about self awareness and reading the room - especially with everything Leigh spoke about in her documentary and everything her and Jade have mentioned about their experiences with racism since Little Mix were formed.

 

With black artists it seems they have to straighten their hair/bleach their skin to look more European and 'accessible' by the GP. Alexandra Burke was told to bleach her skin after X-Factor and a ton of other black artists spoke out last summer about their experiences in the industry. I still am learning about the subject myself but I can definitely understand how Jesy's blackfishing is a problem and how it would irritate the other girls.

 

Hell, even MNEK (who produced half their discography) has been indicating on social media he's unhappy with Jesy and doesn't approve so f*** knows what the other girls actually think.

Edited August 14, 20213 yr by shadow2009

I know this is probably not the place to ask but why can’t Jesy dress a certain way? Why is it disrespectful for her to wear corn rows for example or over tan? Why is it not the same when Mel B straightens her hair as it is for Jesy to make her hair look more like an afro? Or for white people to wear Indian saris but not for Indian people to wear traditional European / Americanised clothing? I probably sound incredibly ignorant but I don’t understand. What about it is cultural appropriation and not just admiration or respect for the culture?

 

Also what about people who tan naturally as some people go very dark when they tan some people don’t at all, is it still wrong to do it if that is your natural colour in the sun? Or those who bleach their skin to go paler (which I find horrendously sad) is that not the same?

 

I don’t mean to sound ignorant. As someone who hates racism I genuinely would like to understand why?

So it's not about the way she dresses, the way she physically wears clothes is completely fine.

 

It's how she presents her body through hair, make-up and other enhancements and the degree to which she does them. Tanning is fine for anyone, but overly tanning to the point where you are looking ambiguous or just simply not white anymore is a massive problem - this is the biggest issue IMO - lip lining/fillers are done by everyone and her hair is somewhat natural, just curled tighter.

 

And then looking how she does Jesy is generally praised by the public and the media for looking how she does - whereas black women/black features tend to be criticised overly harsh by the media and public. White people who blackfish want to take all the "positive" aspects of being black without having to actually suffer any of the negative consequences that black people are subjected to.

 

Then we move onto appropriation - so black hairstyles, such as cornrows, are black culture, they were created by black people, popularised by black people and so on - not only is typical white hair not genetically created to be put through the process it just isn't theirs to wear, because again they want to take 1 aspect of black culture and make it "popular" and "edgy" and "cool" as a white person but a black person is often called ratchet and ghetto and a whole other plethora of racist terms for having their hair a certain way.

 

Curly/Straight hair is not native to one race, therefore a black woman straightening their hair or bleaching it blonde is not appropriation because straight blonde hair is not white culture, it's just more common, just as there are white people with curly, textured hair. Jesy's hair isn't appropriation but when coupled with the fillers and the attitude, the accessories (the fkn GRILL) and the tanning it pulls together to create an image of a black woman who is actually white.

 

Cultural appreciation does exist, for instance in Japan people are encouraged to wear Japanese clothing such as kimonos, even when Little Mix went there themselves they wore them as they were encouraged to do so by their Japanese label/team as it shows a level of respect, but it is a very fine line, and it's hard to see appreciation a lot of the time because white people generally like to take what isn't theirs (coming from a white person)

 

Adele is another person who teeters on cultural appreciation/appropriation - her vocal stylings and type of music are all heavily influenced by black music, particularly bluesy stylings from the 50/60s, an era of music that is credited to black people but taken by white people (Elvis literally stole the concept of rock n roll from black musicians) and she has always credited her inspiration to black women - however when she wore that Jamaican inspired outfit last year with that hairstyle, that was weird appropriation, but a lot of black people didn't mind because Adele grew up around black people and has credited them throughout - it's a very fine line and it isn't so black and white (so to speak) there's a lot of gray areas and I think it's a case by case basis sometimes.

 

But a white woman wanting to kick off her era and using black images as her new image to appear more cool is just flat out appropriation and borderline racism. Not saying that Jesy is doing this, as tbh she didn't specifically do this for her new solo era, but a lot of women did this in the past including Katy, Ariana, Iggy etc.

 

Ariana is still someone who is a bit sus, she has toned down her tanning a LOT but her over - and embarrassing use of AAVE is very cringe and tbh she needs to be held to the same standard that Jesy is - but I digress.

 

I hope this helps understand it, there's a lot of resources on google that can be used too - I probably missed out a loads of examples. As white people, particularly white LGBTQ people we definitely need to do better when it comes to standing up and calling out racism and anti-black appropriative actions within the community and the industry

 

 

Adele last year wasn’t appropriation because she was styled by black women- it was appreciation because she was at carnival and it was a celebration of the culture- she even said herself that it was Black Caribbean women that had asked to style her hair and dress her up!

 

No different to Rihanna’s photos for an edition of Vogue in the last year she was styled by Asian women which is why the shoot was seen as cultural appreciation when she was seen dressed in a kimono and traditionally Asian clothes.

 

I think Gwen Stefani is a fabulous example for the line between appreciation and appropriation- in her No Doubt says she was often seen wearing a bindi- this was because she spent part of her time growing up in Asia and people she had known would put this on her and this is why she’d wear it in the band- to show appreciation. But then upon her solo music the lyricism was constantly referring to how she wanted harajuku girls around here- this is appropriation

 

There are a lot of popstars in the past that have had a “bad girl era” which surrounded around them basically just releasing urban music as opposed to their normal style of music- something Dirrty by Christina or Loose by Nelly Furtado and more recently Bangerz by Miley- these come across slightly off in reterospect that they brand themselves as bad girls and changing their image when most of the time it is just an imitation of a style that’s traditionally been popularised by black R&B/ soul singers. I think what makes this worse is the “back to my routes” album that normally follows- Back To Basics, Younger Now etc- because it suggests that the popstars were never really there for this change in sound permanently and instead just there to use it as an “era” to continue their popularity.

 

Again it’s a really difficult topic to get your head around and is obviously really touchy- and this is no shade to ANY artist I’ve written about I think there are so many underlying topics in music that are inherently racist but I’m not here to explain them all in a Jesy Nelson thread.

 

 

I’m sorry I didn’t realise I had written that much- it something that as someone that studies music journalism I think about all the time in regards to the entertainment industry and I have many thoughts but it is something really difficult to write about as sometimes it’s so difficult I find it hard how to even articulate it correctly.

Adele last year wasn’t appropriation because she was styled by black women- it was appreciation because she was at carnival and it was a celebration of the culture- she even said herself that it was Black Caribbean women that had asked to style her hair and dress her up!

 

No different to Rihanna’s photos for an edition of Vogue in the last year she was styled by Asian women which is why the shoot was seen as cultural appreciation when she was seen dressed in a kimono and traditionally Asian clothes.

 

I think Gwen Stefani is a fabulous example for the line between appreciation and appropriation- in her No Doubt says she was often seen wearing a bindi- this was because she spent part of her time growing up in Asia and people she had known would put this on her and this is why she’d wear it in the band- to show appreciation. But then upon her solo music the lyricism was constantly referring to how she wanted harajuku girls around here- this is appropriation

 

There are a lot of popstars in the past that have had a “bad girl era” which surrounded around them basically just releasing urban music as opposed to their normal style of music- something Dirrty by Christina or Loose by Nelly Furtado and more recently Bangerz by Miley- these come across slightly off in reterospect that they brand themselves as bad girls and changing their image when most of the time it is just an imitation of a style that’s traditionally been popularised by black R&B/ soul singers. I think what makes this worse is the “back to my routes” album that normally follows- Back To Basics, Younger Now etc- because it suggests that the popstars were never really there for this change in sound permanently and instead just there to use it as an “era” to continue their popularity.

 

Again it’s a really difficult topic to get your head around and is obviously really touchy- and this is no shade to ANY artist I’ve written about I think there are so many underlying topics in music that are inherently racist but I’m not here to explain them all in a Jesy Nelson thread.

 

 

Oh yes, good points re: Christina and Miley, they were big culture vultures back in those eras, Xtina even looked like a black woman a lot of the time during her Stripped era, which just goes to show that it happens but doesn’t have any consequences and it’s so wrong.

If you don’t like Jesy, don’t watch what she’s doing.

 

Some people are looking forward to her music, this is not a thread to spew your hatred saying she should be ‘burned at the stake’. If she bothers you so much just ignore what she’s doing or rant elsewhere.

If you don’t like Jesy, don’t watch what she’s doing.

 

Some people are looking forward to her music, this is not a thread to spew your hatred saying she should be ‘burned at the stake’. If she bothers you so much just ignore what she’s doing or rant elsewhere.

The "burn her at the stake" comment was clearly someone who was making fun of the people going against Jesy. They were not being serious.

 

Some of the comments in this thread have probably crossed the line or come close to it, but contrary to your comments, this is not just a thread for people who are going to blindly support an artist no matter what. This is a thread to discuss Jesy's music. She posted a teaser for that music and any discussion about her blackfishing has stemmed from that teaser. It's not like people invaded this thread out of nowhere. Most of them are frequent posters in the Little Mix forum who are obviously going to be up to date with what Jesy is doing and what's she's doing is a mess. If you want someone to be mad at for this thread turning sour, blame the woman who has on several occasions been informed of what she's doing wrong and continues to do it anyway.

Im afraid I have to agree with the above post. I was rooting for Jesy and was worried she would come across as ignorant and she has sadly done that.

Why what’s up with Nikki at the min?

 

Nicki tried bribing the woman who was raped by her husband to retract it and say that she lied, when the woman refused she and her family started getting harrassed by Nicki's cohorts to the point that they had to go into hiding.

Edited August 15, 20213 yr by tommie

If you don’t like Jesy, don’t watch what she’s doing.

 

Some people are looking forward to her music, this is not a thread to spew your hatred saying she should be ‘burned at the stake’. If she bothers you so much just ignore what she’s doing or rant elsewhere.

 

I’ve been reading this post from afar and not made any comments - I don’t like getting involved in drama but I’m sorry, I have to comment on this. One should never ever ignore racism or prejudice whatever the context and whatever it is in relation to. It’s not okay to ever ignore this and I actually think the above posts have been informative and mature. No one is criticising the song - it may be very good but unfortunately by Jesy choosing to continuing this kind of behaviour eventhough it has been previously highlighted as offensive to people of colour & damaging and dangerous; it is is not cool.

This thread reminds me of The Saturdays forum

Thank you for the explanations re appropriation and appreciation. I'll be honest I still don't quite understand it as I feel like the issues should be focused more on the issues around how we portray black people (with the terminology of 'edgy' for white and 'ghetto' for black) and trying to tackle that rather than saying nobody else can or should touch it. While I understand that images, styles, music, film etc have developed in certain cultures I struggle to see why that cannot be shared, similar to sharing food from different cultures / countries across the world. It's not cultural appropriation to eat or cook Chinese food despite the fact it belongs to the Chinese culture for instance.

 

Anyhow I still try to be very conscious of how I treat and portray others and this is something to ensure I don't offend others with I obviously need to keep learning.

 

The Nikki Minaj thing is just urgh how hideous.

Thank you for the explanations re appropriation and appreciation. I'll be honest I still don't quite understand it as I feel like the issues should be focused more on the issues around how we portray black people (with the terminology of 'edgy' for white and 'ghetto' for black) and trying to tackle that rather than saying nobody else can or should touch it. While I understand that images, styles, music, film etc have developed in certain cultures I struggle to see why that cannot be shared, similar to sharing food from different cultures / countries across the world. It's not cultural appropriation to eat or cook Chinese food despite the fact it belongs to the Chinese culture for instance.

 

Anyhow I still try to be very conscious of how I treat and portray others and this is something to ensure I don't offend others with I obviously need to keep learning.

 

The Nikki Minaj thing is just urgh how hideous.

 

It is difficult to understand and honestly I don’t fully understand despite taking many courses tackling structural inequalities. I guess when I’m unsure I come from the point of view that being of white heritage myself, if one of my BAME friends or the BAME community is telling me that something is offensive / prejudice then I accept that and find a way to work against that :)

 

As to my earlier post, I’m sorry if I offended the person who wrote the post. I know it must be terribly frustrating wanting to celebrate new music of someone you like amongst all this white noise - I do hope her song is good - I don’t wish anyone to fail and hope Jesy finds her path to success and through this mess.

It is difficult to understand and honestly I don’t fully understand despite taking many courses tackling structural inequalities. I guess when I’m unsure I come from the point of view that being of white heritage myself, if one of my BAME friends or the BAME community is telling me that something is offensive / prejudice then I accept that and find a way to work against that :)

 

 

This is the same approach I take. :wub:

Thank you for the explanations re appropriation and appreciation. I'll be honest I still don't quite understand it as I feel like the issues should be focused more on the issues around how we portray black people (with the terminology of 'edgy' for white and 'ghetto' for black) and trying to tackle that rather than saying nobody else can or should touch it. While I understand that images, styles, music, film etc have developed in certain cultures I struggle to see why that cannot be shared, similar to sharing food from different cultures / countries across the world. It's not cultural appropriation to eat or cook Chinese food despite the fact it belongs to the Chinese culture for instance.

 

Anyhow I still try to be very conscious of how I treat and portray others and this is something to ensure I don't offend others with I obviously need to keep learning.

 

The Nikki Minaj thing is just urgh how hideous.

 

I think this could work, in an ideal world, but what we still see is black people getting fired or not being allowed to go to school (mostly in the US) for wearing certain hairstyles because it's not deemed as "professional", whilst white people are being applaud when they are having the exact same hairstyle. Things like this make the discussion very hard and therefore white people should not try on certain styles to look "cool" or "edgy". It's white privilige at the core and I don't understand why someone like Jesy does not get this, especially after being challenged multiple times.

 

Even if she does not understand it, being in the public eye comes with some responsibility. Since she has been told to stop it, she just should take a step back. It's not as simple as owning your body and deciding what you do with it. Like people have stated here, she had mixed race bandmates, and should (have) show (shown) some sensitivity!

We can't decide to cancel dababy for his offensive comments and then tolerate Jesy's attitude because we feel it doesn't make her a bad person or because we love her. If I'm so in love with her, the minimum I'd do is to keep quiet; I mean, that's even a stretch, because sometimes silence could mean approval!

I think this could work, in an ideal world, but what we still see is black people getting fired or not being allowed to go to school (mostly in the US) for wearing certain hairstyles because it's not deemed as "professional", whilst white people are being applaud when they are having the exact same hairstyle. Things like this make the discussion very hard and therefore white people should not try on certain styles to look "cool" or "edgy". It's white privilige at the core and I don't understand why someone like Jesy does not get this, especially after being challenged multiple times.

 

 

Ok yes I had not thought of it from that perspective and that actually has made me relook at it again! I still think the problem there is with the schools / work places and again the portrayal of people of different ethnicity / the idea that it looks edgy or 'bad girl / boy.' I totally get though that it is a perfect world scenario in that case.

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