September 25, 20213 yr Author It is fascinating how Drag Race and American drag has really (re)shaped what drag is and means for people in this country. I'm not sure I would immediately call what Krystal - or a lot of the US queens - does DRAG. To me, drag is performing, hosting, creating a character. I'm not sure I can imagine Krystal doing that. It's an issue I had to an extent with a lot of the season 13 queens as well. I feel like a lot of the more modern queens don't actually want to be a drag queen, they want to be a genderbending model and no more.
September 25, 20213 yr That in itself is a narrow view of drag though, the more traditional type of queen. If drag hadn't evolved past Edna Everage and Lily Savage, we probably wouldn't have Drag Race. I think *some* of the Krystal type queens being there is fine, part of what makes Drag Race popular is that there is these different types of queens so there's usually something for everyone, but I can't stand the fans acting like just one type of drag is okay. I don't think it helps to box in a definition of drag in any way, as the Boulet Brothers would say - "drag is art, and art is subjective".
September 26, 20213 yr Author Eh. I kinda think that's a statement like "my Artpop could be anything".
September 26, 20213 yr It's not though? :lol: Drag CAN be anything, that's why you've got the likes of Victoria, and then Landon Cider for example on Dragula breaking down barriers and being different things to what you'd usually see. What kind of show is there if every challenge centred on what you'd see in a club? I get if you don't like that kind of drag, but I think it's damaging to say that things are "not drag" or not worthy of being on the show. Ugh I hate that I used the phrase breaking down barriers, I hate that Ru keeps saying that when he's the one who put the barriers up :lol:
September 26, 20213 yr Author I think we're talking at cross purposes. I don't see any of those as contradictory. Modelling though, yeah, kinda. I'm not saying it's bad or unworthy. Just that it seems to be taking aterm that previously meant something specific and expanding it to a new meaning that's essentially "anything that bends gender in any way = drag", and I'm not sure that I agree with that. To be honest I almost find that a little uncomfortable re reducing trans folk's lived identities to something to do with performance.
September 26, 20213 yr I think we're talking at cross purposes. I don't see any of those as contradictory. Modelling though, yeah, kinda. I'm not saying it's bad or unworthy. Just that it seems to be taking aterm that previously meant something specific and expanding it to a new meaning that's essentially "anything that bends gender in any way = drag", and I'm not sure that I agree with that. To be honest I almost find that a little uncomfortable re reducing trans folk's lived identities to something to do with performance. i think you're getting really tangled up in your own argument here. you're right that drag is a performance, and queens like krystal who focus on the look are still performing, bending gender through performance and absolutely doing DRAG. that is not in any way equivalent to being trans (unless off course that is a queen's true gender identity.) to say that they are reducing the trans identity to a performance of gender is not correct imo, as cis queens are in no way claiming to be trans in the same way that they are not claiming to be cis women. i guess drag has different meaning to each person who does it, and that's absolutely how it should be. it's not up to us to define it on their behalf.
September 26, 20213 yr Author Perhaps. I had a think over it in my mind again and I guess I would explain it as: 1. I had always thought of drag as a performance in the sense of a PHYSICAL performance, a show, hosting, acting, etc. To me that is still the immediate definition of drag; that is what a drag queen does. 2. I didn't mean performance in the sense of gender performance, more broadly. 3. What people are now defining as drag, I would put mentally more in the category of 'dressing up'. Which doesn't at all devalue it, it just is something different to what my existing understanding of drag is/was. I suppose, what is the case that I'm gathering, is that more and more people are feeling that what I said - anything to do with dressing up and involving makeup and costumes in any way whatsoever is now drag, correct? Which goes against my initial conception. However I should also say that my perspective on this as a nonbinary person is maybe a little complex because part of my own understanding of identity is that things like what you wear are just what you wear - rather than reflecting something about some kind of persona you are now 'performing'. PS to clarify, for me, this is an interesting discussion without high stakes. I don't mean to challenge anyone's view or say You Are Wrong.
September 26, 20213 yr For me, drag can be anything you want it to be and if a person only doee drag looks and barely performing its still DRAG.
September 26, 20213 yr Perhaps. I had a think over it in my mind again and I guess I would explain it as: 1. I had always thought of drag as a performance in the sense of a PHYSICAL performance, a show, hosting, acting, etc. To me that is still the immediate definition of drag; that is what a drag queen does. 2. I didn't mean performance in the sense of gender performance, more broadly. 3. What people are now defining as drag, I would put mentally more in the category of 'dressing up'. Which doesn't at all devalue it, it just is something different to what my existing understanding of drag is/was. I suppose, what is the case that I'm gathering, is that more and more people are feeling that what I said - anything to do with dressing up and involving makeup and costumes in any way whatsoever is now drag, correct? Which goes against my initial conception. However I should also say that my perspective on this as a nonbinary person is maybe a little complex because part of my own understanding of identity is that things like what you wear are just what you wear - rather than reflecting something about some kind of persona you are now 'performing'. PS to clarify, for me, this is an interesting discussion without high stakes. I don't mean to challenge anyone's view or say You Are Wrong. if you take it down to its bare definition, drag is a performance of masculinity / femininity / any other gender expression. so i would say it has always been the 'dressing up' that defines something as drag. performers have then gone on to put on shows, host, act etc. as a way of giving life to the character. i guess in the past drag was limited (with exceptions obviously) to clubs / theatres which is why campy stage drag used to be the mainstay. i think what has changed is that drag is now happening in a lot more spaces and becoming more accepted into the fashion mainstream so we are seeing demand for a new type of queen whose focus is on runway and looks. i understand where you are coming from! and you're not wrong, i don't believe that how you dress defines who you are either. its a weird clashing of ideologies to perform gender and at the same time be trying to tear down the binary, both as a performer and a viewer. if anyone has any points of view regarding this i would love to hear!
September 26, 20213 yr Author That's actually a really good way of explaining it 152chris omg. Thanks for clearing it up in my head! So I guess to get back on topic, then yes, what Krystal does is drag, in a different form. On another topic shooting off that... what does everyone think about her surgeries to help with her drag career? I kinda hope it comes to light that that wasn't the real reason she had them. I don't like the idea of people getting surgeries for a career...I think. Although I have nothing against cosmetic surgery in general for personal reasons!
September 26, 20213 yr Finally watched the first episode. I am in love with Victoria Scone and I hope she goes far. Her runway looks were on point and her genuine emotion at being there gave me the feels. She knows how important her appearance is River Medway was iconic in her statue look, but both looks had very little going on in the garment. Unless she ups her game she is going soon I really liked Charity and thought she should have been top 3 instead Agree with comments about Veronica - she is out of her element and beyond the ability to sing/dance, I don’t think she can bring much to the competition I don’t like queens being eliminated first week - especially when it is only a looks challenge…. I could have seen Anubis do better than other queens in acting challenges. I wonder if season 4 will have a Queen trying to break the Brighton curse! Looking forward to this series after episode one
September 27, 20213 yr Seeing Raven on FPR review Krystal's look has made me realise she paints soooo much like Raven, it's almost clinical and that's one of the things that leaves me cold. I don't like when drag is too calculated and perfect, I want that edge, some roughness or some individuality. I think the fact she has surgery to further her drag contributes too too, everything comes down to being so cold and calculated and almost scientific. I don't think surgery is really an issue as a lot queens have stuff done (Vivienne, Trinity The Tuck), although perhaps not specifically for drag. I remember seeing that Trinity considered transitioning to be more feminine for drag which is insane though :lol:
September 28, 20213 yr Anubis won their lipsync. Victoria won their lipsync. Top 2: Victoria Scone/Charity Kase High: Choriza May Low: Vanity Milan Bottom 2: River Medway/Elektra Fence
September 29, 20213 yr In my opinion, this challenge should've gone as so; WINNER: Charity Kase (& Victoria if doing a top 2) HIGH: Victoria Scone & Choriza May LOW: Elektra Fence BOTTOM 2: Kitty Scott Claus & Veronica Green Anubis was robbed tbh. Her second look wasn't the strongest but at least it had something to it, and her first look was great. The others had two bad looks (I loooove Ella already but neither of hers were pushing the boat out either - safe is about right)... and why protect Veronica just because she's a returning queen?
September 29, 20213 yr I would've had it as... WINNER: Victoria Scone HIGH: Scarlett Harlett & Choriza May LOW: Elektra Fence BOTTOM 2: Kitty Scott Claus & Veronica Green Kitty was just basic in both looks and Veronica.... her second look, just looked like Veronica out of drag with a clown wig on.
September 29, 20213 yr For me; Top 2: Victoria/Choriza High: Charity Kase (Loved Krystal Versace and Scarlett Harlett too) Low: River Bottom 2: Anubis and Elektra
