Did you read my post or just look for a way to start an argument?

 

Yes it is totally bizarre we have a family born in to privilege and like I said in my post, no modern society would set up a monarchy as the concept it outdated. But unless we are a communist society and everyone is equal don't you think this happens across all walks of life every single day? The only reason people kick up a fuss is because it's in the media and we see it. Life is unfair full stop and their power is all influential rather than concrete. A President would have the same sort of influential power too. The iron is not hot for taking down the Monarchy at this moment in time and nor is it the problem at hand with our country.

 

You clearly didn’t read my post actually, but thanks for the gaslighting in the very first sentence here.

 

It’s because people don’t challenge it that it remains. As I said, it’s not their power and influence that has people against them-everyone already knows they’re purely symbolic. It’s more about the fact that people will be freezing and/or starving this Winter yet we’re currently watching ridiculous expensive pomp and circumstance. That a family get to live out a life of privilege and are born into roles they required absolutely no qualifications for. This isn’t right and we shouldn’t just be ok with it because it’s the way it’s always been.

 

Just because it may not be the biggest issue facing the country doesn’t mean it isn’t one that should be tackled. I mean, where would you even start if we had to tackle issues in order of importance in this messed up place? You may believe there’s no appetite for abolishing the monarchy but how does that mean people shouldn’t be able to publicly air their grievances? How on Earth will appetite grow if people are silenced because royalists are clutching their pearls?

 

Yes, of course the government is an issue but why can’t we rethink both?

 

And yeah, sure not everyone is equal but we live in a country where nurses, teachers and carers are resorting to food banks and the royals are born into financial safety for life. Life may not be fair but I can’t understand how anyone can turn the other cheek at unfairness of this scale.

The Center Parks decision is barmy. Where are people supposed to go?

 

This has now been reversed, thankfully.

well obv aimed at my friend here, so... No, you get a grip. WTAF that you think you have a right to tell other people what to believe or feel or do. If you feel that strongly about everyone doing what you want feel free to run for office and see how you do. I'm not a Monarchist, I'm fairly ambivalent, but from what Ive seen online elsewhere at the shitshow of comments followjng the death of the Queen, the complete lack of self-awareness from people who think that this is an opportunity to try and bring down an institution that has just proved its globally popular is just own-goal-scoring. What really pisses people off about leftyism is the inability to accept people may have alternative views, that judgementalism is just so offputting. And all of this reactionary untimely BS is playing directly into the hands of the Tories. So business as usual then. If we ever DO get another "Brexit-type" vote on the Monarchy, in favour of an elected President, does anyone REALLY think that the majority of the nation hates the Monarchy enough to want another periodic voting opportunity for a replacement? Cos that's not what I hear from people, unless I pop on down to the local annual Tolpuddle festival which gets supported by hundreds of people from all over the UK.

Other comments: The Monarch IS NOT PERMITTED TO GET INVOLVED IN ANYTHING POLITICAL! We, the British people who vote for the governments are responsible. That's us. Think about it. We have the oldest democracy on the planet, pretty much, and yet we keep voting in the people who really should be getting the criticism. And our human rights are pretty much among the best in the world. Now. Very few nations used to have much of a record, actually, the British were just more successful at imposing their will one way or another. Yet, Germany gets less of a slagging off despite voting in and going along with a man responsible for mass murder across continents. Have they said they are sorry? Does that make everything OK now or did those people all miraculously return from the dead? Cos The Queen actually lived during that time and contributed to the war effort, so let's hear a more balanced view on the rights and wrongs of history and who is actually responsible for what. Cos to me, it's blame shifting. WE are responsible, just as the Germans are responsible, the Spanish are responsible, the French are responsible, the Dutch are responsible, the Russians are responsible, the Japanese are responsible, and almost every other nation that has ever existed is if you go back far enough.

 

The Prince Of Wales previously did dabble in some famous issues (and got royally slagged off for it by the right-wing), and yet was forced to sit through the Scottish Green rep basically assigning blame to British royalty for all the things done by the British Gov, blissfully and jaw-droppingly unaware that King Charles has been pushing environmental issues while he was busy pissing up the school wall, and that King Charles now has no say in even that. And that he's directly descended from the Scottish monarch who acquired the UK monarchy as part of a political deal is just hilarious.

That’s a very extreme aggressive reaction for someone who is apparently ambivalent. Also where did Silas tell anyone to feel or do anything? Erm, if that’s true, it’s quite hypocritical because you’re doing the exact same thing (also, see the part in bold, how are you exactly accepting other people’s alternative views? Glass houses) but with an ever so slightly unhinged patriotic ‘UK is the best because it has an ancient outdated tired obsolete unnecessary ridiculous exploitative misogynistic racist homophobic tradition from the good old times before iPhone 6’ touch.

 

Also, I don’t really know how to feel about one using hitler as an argument to not abolish the British monarchy

You clearly didn’t read my post actually, but thanks for the gaslighting in the very first sentence here.

 

It’s because people don’t challenge it that it remains. As I said, it’s not their power and influence that has people against them-everyone already knows they’re purely symbolic. It’s more about the fact that people will be freezing and/or starving this Winter yet we’re currently watching ridiculous expensive pomp and circumstance. That a family get to live out a life of privilege and are born into roles they required absolutely no qualifications for. This isn’t right and we shouldn’t just be ok with it because it’s the way it’s always been.

 

Just because it may not be the biggest issue facing the country doesn’t mean it isn’t one that should be tackled. I mean, where would you even start if we had to tackle issues in order of importance in this messed up place? You may believe there’s no appetite for abolishing the monarchy but how does that mean people shouldn’t be able to publicly air their grievances? How on Earth will appetite grow if people are silenced because royalists are clutching their pearls?

 

Yes, of course the government is an issue but why can’t we rethink both?

 

And yeah, sure not everyone is equal but we live in a country where nurses, teachers and carers are resorting to food banks and the royals are born into financial safety for life. Life may not be fair but I can’t understand how anyone can turn the other cheek at unfairness of this scale.

 

The system gets replaced with another system though, which is a cost to the taxpayer. I completely get why people are anti-monarchy, but you replace one system with another and neither systems are going to solve our problems. Neither a monarchy or republic state will make any difference to my life whatsoever. I understand your point about the roles and people being born in to privelige, but this happens every day and has happened for our entire existence. Yes it sucks, but why do we get to live our lives in relative peace and yet some souls live in constant war and famine? It's pure luck, life isn't fair.

 

I totally get the whole shebang about food banks and people freezing, but these aren't new problems. I don't think the world should stop in the way it will do likely on Monday and some of the decisions companies and businesses and even charities have taken are completely hyperbole. The monarchy aren't going to solve these problems. All you're going to see over the next 5-10 years is the Monarchy reduce in size and costs imo.

 

You might want appetite to grow for change but most people don't with the monarchy. People love the Royal Family for plenty of reasons. I don't understand it myself, but if you speak to mlost people over the age of 50-55 they absolutely worship the Queen or respect her greatly no matter political beliefs. I suspect a lot of that is generational.

The system gets replaced with another system though, which is a cost to the taxpayer. I completely get why people are anti-monarchy, but you replace one system with another and neither systems are going to solve our problems. Neither a monarchy or republic state will make any difference to my life whatsoever. I understand your point about the roles and people being born in to privelige, but this happens every day and has happened for our entire existence. Yes it sucks, but why do we get to live our lives in relative peace and yet some souls live in constant war and famine? It's pure luck, life isn't fair.

 

I totally get the whole shebang about food banks and people freezing, but these aren't new problems. I don't think the world should stop in the way it will do likely on Monday and some of the decisions companies and businesses and even charities have taken are completely hyperbole. The monarchy aren't going to solve these problems. All you're going to see over the next 5-10 years is the Monarchy reduce in size and costs imo.

 

You might want appetite to grow for change but most people don't with the monarchy. People love the Royal Family for plenty of reasons. I don't understand it myself, but if you speak to mlost people over the age of 50-55 they absolutely worship the Queen or respect her greatly no matter political beliefs. I suspect a lot of that is generational.

 

But this is why nothing ever changes. Acceptance of things being the way they are doesn’t take us forward. I’m glad you’re content with things being the way they are but that doesn’t mean everyone feels the same way and they shouldn’t have to just shut up and put up.

The system gets replaced with another system though, which is a cost to the taxpayer. I completely get why people are anti-monarchy, but you replace one system with another and neither systems are going to solve our problems. Neither a monarchy or republic state will make any difference to my life whatsoever. I understand your point about the roles and people being born in to privelige, but this happens every day and has happened for our entire existence. Yes it sucks, but why do we get to live our lives in relative peace and yet some souls live in constant war and famine? It's pure luck, life isn't fair.

 

I totally get the whole shebang about food banks and people freezing, but these aren't new problems. I don't think the world should stop in the way it will do likely on Monday and some of the decisions companies and businesses and even charities have taken are completely hyperbole. The monarchy aren't going to solve these problems. All you're going to see over the next 5-10 years is the Monarchy reduce in size and costs imo.

 

You might want appetite to grow for change but most people don't with the monarchy. People love the Royal Family for plenty of reasons. I don't understand it myself, but if you speak to mlost people over the age of 50-55 they absolutely worship the Queen or respect her greatly no matter political beliefs. I suspect a lot of that is generational.

 

The thing is your coming from the centre right viewpoint here and in every other arguement in different threads on this politics debate forum. With this attitude we would never progress, or maybe that the point?

Why do you think he couldn't stomach the grestest politician since Attlee, Corbyn?!

But this is why nothing ever changes. Acceptance of things being the way they are doesn’t take us forward. I’m glad you’re content with things being the way they are but that doesn’t mean everyone feels the same way and they shouldn’t have to just shut up and put up.

 

It's fine for people to have different opinons. I just feel this particular battle is not one there to be fought and nor would it make any difference to our lives. Just my opinion. If you think etsablishing a Republic is going to bring fundamental change to the country, then that's your opinion. Fine by me. Change isn't always good, will just throw that one out there.

 

 

The thing is your coming from the centre right viewpoint here and in every other arguement in different threads on this politics debate forum. With this attitude we would never progress, or maybe that the point?

 

I get the argument, like I have said, I find the system outdated in a modern society and if a country was starting sovernity they would not have a monarchy. I just don't believe esablishing a republic in ther United Kingdom is anywhere near the list of priorities and nor would it make the slighest bit of difference to anyone's lives apart from damaging our economy even further and spending a whole bunch of taxpayers money on implementing a new system for someone else to live in a Presidential Mansion.

I get your arguement too and my point is you could change the words in your paragraph above and amend it to use the words in the energy prices debate and it’s the same - now isn’t the time for fundamental change.

It's fine for people to have different opinons. I just feel this particular battle is not one there to be fought and nor would it make any difference to our lives. Just my opinion. If you think etsablishing a Republic is going to bring fundamental change to the country, then that's your opinion. Fine by me. Change isn't always good, will just throw that one out there.

I get the argument, like I have said, I find the system outdated in a modern society and if a country was starting sovernity they would not have a monarchy. I just don't believe esablishing a republic in ther United Kingdom is anywhere near the list of priorities and nor would it make the slighest bit of difference to anyone's lives apart from damaging our economy even further and spending a whole bunch of taxpayers money on implementing a new system for someone else to live in a Presidential Mansion.

 

So you’ll allow people opinions but not the right to voice them because you don’t think said opinion is important enough right now? This has come up into discussion because people have been arrested for peaceful protest. All I did was question your statement saying the protesters were going a bit far.

Other comments: The Monarch IS NOT PERMITTED TO GET INVOLVED IN ANYTHING POLITICAL! We, the British people who vote for the governments are responsible. That's us. Think about it. We have the oldest democracy on the planet, pretty much, and yet we keep voting in the people who really should be getting the criticism. And our human rights are pretty much among the best in the world. Now. Very few nations used to have much of a record, actually, the British were just more successful at imposing their will one way or another. Yet, Germany gets less of a slagging off despite voting in and going along with a man responsible for mass murder across continents. Have they said they are sorry? Does that make everything OK now or did those people all miraculously return from the dead? Cos The Queen actually lived during that time and contributed to the war effort, so let's hear a more balanced view on the rights and wrongs of history and who is actually responsible for what. Cos to me, it's blame shifting. WE are responsible, just as the Germans are responsible, the Spanish are responsible, the French are responsible, the Dutch are responsible, the Russians are responsible, the Japanese are responsible, and almost every other nation that has ever existed is if you go back far enough.

 

The Prince Of Wales previously did dabble in some famous issues (and got royally slagged off for it by the right-wing), and yet was forced to sit through the Scottish Green rep basically assigning blame to British royalty for all the things done by the British Gov, blissfully and jaw-droppingly unaware that King Charles has been pushing environmental issues while he was busy pissing up the school wall, and that King Charles now has no say in even that. And that he's directly descended from the Scottish monarch who acquired the UK monarchy as part of a political deal is just hilarious.

 

The idea that the Head Of State is a non-political role is a very convenient fiction. Clearly. As people are being arrested for protesting against the family. Just because the monarch doesn't make any overt shows of political power doesn't mean that this state will resist changes to it, dissent or public discussion. It's not like most people have an army of servants empowered to do their will, or have regular meetings with the actual Prime Minister.

 

And pointing that out in no way turns away our ire towards the rest of government. We all give them ire regularly. Just when there is a change in the role by which executive power is considered to be derived, it's the time to examine it. Republicans are almost certainly more of a minority in public opinion than anti-Tories anyway.

 

Regardless of its inability to affect anything, leaving HoS up to the descendance of a rich family is a really insane arcane ritual and there's no good reason for it in a modern society. Maybe it'd make little difference to our lives to change. That's not a reason to not discuss it, nor is discussing it making it a priority over anything more immediately important to most people's way of life. But while the Monarchy gets to follow special rules that don't apply to the rest of us (like, say, Charles having a special exemption to not pay inheritance tax) and gets to de jure hold the power over everything in this nation, it's worth debating. It's not good to be living in a country where policemen come up to you if you're holding a blank piece of paper and ask for your details.

I get your arguement too and my point is you could change the words in your paragraph above and amend it to use the words in the energy prices debate and it’s the same - now isn’t the time for fundamental change.

 

Fair point - I just don't believe any change with the way our country has its structure would make any tangible difference to my life or anyone else's by abolishing the Monarchy, especially with the way they operate in 2022. Go back 100 years and I would have a different answer.

 

So you’ll allow people opinions but not the right to voice them because you don’t think said opinion is important enough right now? This has come up into discussion because people have been arrested for peaceful protest. All I did was question your statement saying the protesters were going a bit far.

 

These things work both ways. If there was a Pride Parade and a group of people were stood there shouting "don't teach LGBTQ+ to our children" or using the Westborough Baptist Church who would picket people's funerals as examples, how do people feel then? Yeah it's the right for free speech, but people use the right of free speech to share abhorrent views. Personally I find someone using a sign with expletive language or heckling "Andrew you’re a sick old man" in a quiet moment is just slightly disrespectful (slightly more sympathy on the latter point - I don't agree with people being arrested for the record)

Fair point - I just don't believe any change with the way our country has its structure would make any tangible difference to my life or anyone else's by abolishing the Monarchy, especially with the way they operate in 2022. Go back 100 years and I would have a different answer.

These things work both ways. If there was a Pride Parade and a group of people were stood there shouting "don't teach LGBTQ+ to our children" or using the Westborough Baptist Church who would picket people's funerals as examples, how do people feel then? Yeah it's the right for free speech, but people use the right of free speech to share abhorrent views. Personally I find someone using a sign with expletive language or heckling "Andrew you’re a sick old man" in a quiet moment is just slightly disrespectful (slightly more sympathy on the latter point - I don't agree with people being arrested for the record)

 

I can’t believe you’ve equated those two things, they’re clearly different and you know why.

I do think the royals have missed a trick by not putting out a statement that they believe in democracy & freedom of speech even if they disagree.

Fair point - I just don't believe any change with the way our country has its structure would make any tangible difference to my life or anyone else's by abolishing the Monarchy, especially with the way they operate in 2022. Go back 100 years and I would have a different answer.

These things work both ways. If there was a Pride Parade and a group of people were stood there shouting "don't teach LGBTQ+ to our children" or using the Westborough Baptist Church who would picket people's funerals as examples, how do people feel then? Yeah it's the right for free speech, but people use the right of free speech to share abhorrent views. Personally I find someone using a sign with expletive language or heckling “Andrew you’re a sick old man” in a quiet moment is just slightly disrespectful (slightly more sympathy on the latter point - I don't agree with people being arrested for the record)

if we're using this example, which i'm hesitant doing, that would technically be slander if there was no trial and verdict.

Plus what he actually shouted was "Andrew, you're a sick old man" which I'm not sure carries the gravity of slander (or warrants charges being brought against him)

 

Considering it was the first time he'd been seen in public since paying off that woman, I can't say I'm surprised somebody took the opportunity to address him in such a way.

 

Honestly, the absurdity of it astounds me. I hope Good Law Project is watching.

I can’t believe you’ve equated those two things, they’re clearly different and you know why.

 

Why is it different? It’s free speech?

 

I don’t agree with arresting people btw. And I take the point about Andrew, I have no love for the man and think he has abused his power and shows no remorse or understanding for his actions. Just don’t feel heckling at that moment in time was the right thing to do on a personal level.

I would have much more sympathy for the "this is not the time people" if this whole charade didn't last a ridiculous 10 days. 10 days when efforts are not spent on saving the planet, reducing poverty etc etc....It's just a bit warped sense of priority in 20 fecking 22.

I would have much more sympathy for the "this is not the time people" if this whole charade didn't last a ridiculous 10 days. 10 days when efforts are not spent on saving the planet, reducing poverty etc etc....It's just a bit warped sense of priority in 20 fecking 22.

 

Overkill I agree, but the coverage is less in your face compared to the Queen Mother for example. Just be thankful none of us seemingly live in Thailand when their head of state passes!

What was the.Queen Mother footage like?