August 17, 20222 yr Not sure what the benefits of privatising the energy companies has been. There are loads of benefits - first of is a companies efficency. I love the NHS for example and totally agree it should be state owned and a free service, but if how the service is run is a joke. There is so much administrative waste, mis-alignment between Trusts, Trusts badly managed and in loads of case an un-steamlined service. I am not talking about the doctros, nurses and surgeons, bit the back office staff. By cutting out the waste, you can re-invest in people. It's the same for the energy sector too. We had enegy at such low prices, but the problem was the model was unsustainable and ultimately the decisoons are driven by the shareholders and profit dividends. Obviously I wasn't alive back then, but how good/badly run were the energy and train services in the 70s and 80s? Under nationalisation people would assume both the customer service would improve & they would deliver profits for the State too. I am not convinced this would be the case. Consumers would be protected by prices I totally agree - and for thr record, I am fully with train services being run by the State as the cost and system needs stripping back entirely. I think in that case, privitatisation has produced an overcomplicated mess which needs stripping back.
August 17, 20222 yr If the government is having to step in and help pay poor/vulnerable peoples energy bill and rent surely it symbolises the private sector is a absolute mess?! I would rather a nationalised service where the people can use their vote to get rid of a minister who isn’t managing the service correctly instead of some invisible rich shareholders who only care about themselves. Edited August 17, 20222 yr by Steve201
August 17, 20222 yr If the government is having to step in and help pay poor/vulnerable peoples energy bill and rent surely it symbolises the private sector is a absolute mess?! I would rather a nationalised service where the people can use their vote to get rid of a minister who isn’t managing the service correctly instead of some invisible rich shareholders who only care about themselves. Is privatisation the root cause of the current predicament we are in? Look, I completely agree there are negatives to the private sector but what always irritates me is the answer to the problems is nationalisation. Like I said before, was nationalisation in the 70s and 80s successful? Feel like lots of us in this thread are in danger here or the “good old days mantra” a lot of take the the piss out of the boomers for who didn’t experience the war. To be efficient and innovate these industries need billions of funding pumped in to them, otherwise they quickly become stagnant
August 18, 20222 yr The nationalised energy companies generally managed very well. The railways, in the latter pre-privatisation years, suffered from a deliberate lack of investment.
August 18, 20222 yr Is privatisation the root cause of the current predicament we are in? Look, I completely agree there are negatives to the private sector but what always irritates me is the answer to the problems is nationalisation. Like I said before, was nationalisation in the 70s and 80s successful? Feel like lots of us in this thread are in danger here or the “good old days mantra” a lot of take the the piss out of the boomers for who didn’t experience the war. To be efficient and innovate these industries need billions of funding pumped in to them, otherwise they quickly become stagnant Well yes privatisation clearly is just the same as in the 1920s it created a similar economy where too much power was in the hands of too few people, simple! We need a more balanced society where the major industrial utilities are owned by government for the people and the efficiencies and innovation can come from the private sector. It’s been one sided for 50 years now. There’s a lot of talk about ‘going back to the 70s’ but the economy now is more like the Lassize faire Victorian economy, I know which one I’d prefer. Efficiency and innovation are just private sector terms for job losses and cut backs. No one is asking for a communist society just a mixed economy. Edited August 18, 20222 yr by Steve201
August 18, 20222 yr EXAAACTLY!!! TIME TO NATIONALISE, NO MATTER WHAT THE EXTREMIST CENTRISTS SAY!!! Isn't extremist centrist an oxymoron? :lol: By their very nature they tend to be cautious and able to see arguments from all sides. No-one is saying the energy companies have done a wonderful job, I think the entire country can agree on that now the chickens are coming home to roost from putting all our eggs in one "imported cheap global warming-inducing-dictator-supporting" basket. Well, those good times are gone and its time to invest in safe affordable home-made alternatives. I thought Brexit was all about "taking back control" so we can take back control and do it. But let's not delude ourselves that it will be a cheap piece of piss that can be bunged out in 12 months, this is going to need a proper costed gradual approach over 10 to 20 years. BUT PUTTING YOUR SONG TITLES IN SHOUTY TEXT MIGHT LEAD TO CHART COMMENTARY PISS-TAKING!! :teresa:
August 18, 20222 yr Very interesting how someone from Ofgem has resigned over claims the company are favouring businesses rather than consumers - Has she only just realised this?!? The Guardian is also reporting that up to 2/3 households will be in fuel poverty by next year. That’s a shocking and alarming figure. Edited August 18, 20222 yr by slowdown73
August 18, 20222 yr It's a simple equation, a one-off cost to nationalise utility companies and then cheaper energy prices throughout, and no more profit motive that then encourages the state to look to greener alternatives. Nationalisation isn't about whatever our past form of nationalisation looked like, it's about looking to the future and not being bound by the constraints of the present by spending money (and the government will have to spend money regardless) to keep consumers afloat, but these are all short-term solutions. The private companies won't go into alternatives as long as they have regulators that just allow them to continue making more profits, nor would they even go into alternatives well-regulated as they need incentives to upend their business strategy. plus given opinion polls it's ridiculous that neither major party is calling for it as an option. (I don't think it's the extreme centrists who are really for privatisation, as much as they are wedded to capitalism, they have an awareness of systems not working as intended, they just find it harder to identify the causes and are cautious of change)
August 18, 20222 yr Private companies care only about shareholder wealth and the share price. It leads to short termism which is the biggest flaw of our entire economic model. Nothing essential to life should be beholden to the whims of shareholders who care more about a return on their investment and their dividend than if Sally at number 16 can afford her leccy bill this month. Things like power, heat, water, transport, post, telecoms etc provide an essential Service and thus should be controlled and owned by the gov who actually are far better placed to think in long term Investments than a private company is because they have no requirement to return as much of their revenue as possible to shareholders in the form of dividends. Public utilities can be extremely well run. Scottish Water for example is well run and is less expensive than many private providers - although it’s swings and roundabouts because it’s unmetered in like 99.99% of cases (as of 2017 less than 500 homes in Scotland were metered) so many could probably have cheaper bills with a meter
August 18, 20222 yr I think we can agree that the idea of saying that there is any merit at all in continuing the privatisation of fuel and rail or delaying nationalisation (other than for logistical reasons) is just smoke and mirrors to obscure the fact that the wealthiest are profiting stupidly whilst the poorest suffer. If it wasn't obvious back then, it sure is obvious now. Enough of this injustice!
August 22, 20222 yr In a beautiful case of "chickens coming home to roost" Express journalists are joining a strike: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/a...strike-over-pay Presumably in order to be consistent they will just sack the lot and hire cheaper foreigners - oh hang on, now we've taken back control that's not allowed by Brexit supporters is it? That would smack of hypocrisy. They could always poach the farm labourers they get less than journalists! Oh hang on, they don't speak English cos they've had to import Third-World labourers to pick fruit on temporary visas. Oh dear, what on Earth can the Express do....?!
August 22, 20222 yr Gas hitting a new high today over fears Russia will be shutting off the Nord stream gas pipe permanently. It's to be shut down for maintenance but most suspect it won't come back on. This winter is going to be horrendous.
August 22, 20222 yr In a beautiful case of "chickens coming home to roost" Express journalists are joining a strike: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/a...strike-over-pay Presumably in order to be consistent they will just sack the lot and hire cheaper foreigners - oh hang on, now we've taken back control that's not allowed by Brexit supporters is it? That would smack of hypocrisy. They could always poach the farm labourers they get less than journalists! Oh hang on, they don't speak English cos they've had to import Third-World labourers to pick fruit on temporary visas. Oh dear, what on Earth can the Express do....?! :D
August 22, 20222 yr Honestly no one here believes Russia when they say they’re closing it for maintenance. It’s been flowing at 20% capacity lately purely to stop Germany filling the gas tanks so they can try to cripple the German economy in winter by turning off the Gas in a crude attempt to kill off German support for Ukraine. Storage is already at 79,5%, we can survive without any Russian gas now. If the turn off NS1 for good then I think we’re looking at a full embargo of Russian energy being the next point of war between Hungary and the rest of the EU
August 22, 20222 yr Talking of privatised utilities making billions for shareholders and not investing in infrastructure, the water companies have been under pressure from libdems and others today for sewerage being piped into the sea. A Spokesman for OFTWAT said in an interview: "Look the companies are not to blame! How can you expect them to dump their sewerage in a drought when the rivers and seas were full of holidaymakers, at least those rivers that hadn't dried up from lack of rain? I mean, really, be reasonable! We could hardly be expected to watch over them when we are busy making sure they have hosepipe bans from not having sorted out extra back-up hydro-storage facilities just at the moment. What's that? Hydro-storage? Yes, I mean leaks. Sorry, I meant, lakes. You're welcome. It's been months since we had a problem with sewerage being carefully released into the environment in a controlled manner. Mainly due to a lack of rain. And there has been no reported monitoring of excess levels of pollution! Sorry, I didn't catch that question? Who monitors the sewerage? Well the water companies, who else is going to have that sort of equipment, what a stupid question! And they report all is well and that's good enough for me. Thank you, I'm afraid I can't answer any more questions, just got back from the beach and I seem to have developed a dicky tummy. Must dash! Should be back in the sea tomorrow lunchtime. Me I mean, not the tummy contents! Just to clarify, I know what you media types like to misconstrue!"
August 25, 20222 yr Johnson has yesterday said Putin is to blame for record gas prices and higher energy bills in the UK. However, that's only half the story and it seems like the government are just looking for someone to blame to avoid them having to take responsibility. Yes, gas prices have increased fourfold since the war in Ukraine but other factors such as covid have also played a role and market failure is one of the biggest causes in this crisis. When energy companies are raking in record profits at the expense of record increase in prices, then we clearly have a system which is completely broken.
August 25, 20222 yr Putin is indeed partly to blame. That doesn’t absolve the government of any responsibility to do something to help.
August 25, 20222 yr Putin is indeed partly to blame. That doesn’t absolve the government of any responsibility to do something to help. It's a catch-22 though as we just kick the can down the road and don't solve the problem. I totally agree the Government have to do something, but State handouts can't just go on forever without some change somewhere. The fault here is we have taken energy for granted and use too much of it, not on about essentials here, more that people leave stuff on standby all the time, not turning lights off when not needed etc. - I don't think energy companies and the Government have done enough to educate people. Now, you can aruge this is a by-product of cheap energy, but I think there is a complete failure of the independent regulator here which does little to help consumers.
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