However you try to spin it, a show that starts off with 2.6M viewers on week one and then loses 20% of them in only 5 weeks is not setting the world alight and is on the wrong trajectory.

 

https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/uk-doctor-who...2024-101452.htm

Edited June 19, 20241 yr by Severin

And yet it continues to have you all talking so, so much.

% change between episode 1 and episode 6 of every series post-2005 (using final +7 figures with 4-screen where available)

 

-20.2% | Series 1 (2005)

-11.4% | Series 2 (2006)

-17.5% | Series 3 (2007)

-19.8% | Series 4 (2008)

-23.8% | Series 5 (2010)

-24.2% | Series 6 (2011)

+01.3% | Series 7 (2012) *

-25.6% | Series 8 (2014)

-06.6% | Series 9 (2015)

-17.2% | Series 10 (2017)

-31.8% | Series 11 (2018)

-24.2% | Series 12 (2020)

-19.4% | Series 13 (2021)

-12.2% | Season 1 (2024)

 

* due to the split-series nature of series 7, episode 6 was the launch of the second half of the series.

 

Blue series featured the first episode of a new Doctor. Obviously series 2 and season 1 were the first outings for their respective Doctors too but their very first episode aired the preceding Christmas.

 

Series 7 discounted due to it being something of an outlier, 2024's season 1 has seen the third lowest % drop-off from episode 1 to episode 6 of the entire modern run - and the lowest since 2015.

 

In addition, the average percentage audience share (final figures, TV only) for each series in full (regular episodes only, no special episodes):

 

40.2% | Series 1 (2005)

40.6% | Series 2 (2006)

38.9% | Series 3 (2007)

38.7% | Series 4 (2008)

36.7% | Series 5 (2010)

33.6% | Series 6 (2011)

31.9% | Series 7 (2012)

28.8% | Series 8 (2014)

24.7% | Series 9 (2015)

27.2% | Series 10 (2017)

33.4% | Series 11 (2018)

23.6% | Series 12 (2020)

26.8% | Series 13 (2021)

29.2% | Season 1 (2024) - episodes 1-5 only

 

So in terms of the audience share so far, we're at our highest level since 2018, where there was naturally an interest in the first female Doctor resulting in an unusually high first couple of episodes. All of Capaldi's had a lower audience share on average too.

 

All of this just goes to show how the raw figures say more about how ratings *across the board* are significantly down than the audience in general not caring about Doctor Who. I'm not being a blind fan when I say we're fine because delving into the statistics proves this!

 

Streaming hasn't just erupted this year, either, so that can't be blamed - yes the market is more fragmented because there's more options available, but it's fair to compare with Jody Whittaker era, that was versus streaming, and total viewing figures are down pretty badly. So maybe RTD needs to reflect that talking babies, magic flying pirate ship baby-eating goblins, drag queens killing music and racist white rich people getting murdered by judgemental IT systems maybe isnt the best way to win over an audience.

 

A tense episode built around standing on a bomb might be the way.....(and yes I'm aware it was one of the lowest rating of the series but these things are cumulative, people turn off as a result of what has gone before. Had it been up earlier it might have drawn people in more)

So the first set of statistics debunks this entirely - if it's cumulative and everything on that list is as bad as you're saying, why has this series had the best audience retention in 9 years?

 

(would also love to know what the issue with racist white people being fictionally murdered is tbh x)

And yet it continues to have you all talking so, so much.

What a strange comment. People who care about the show will talk about it, whether they think it is making mistakes or doing well. There are just less people who care lately.

What a strange comment. People who care about the show will talk about it, whether they think it is making mistakes or doing well. There are just less people who care lately.

 

You're talking about the show constantly. Everybody is. It's been trending every week on Twitter, with the top trends following last week's episode being 'Sutekh', 'Doctor Who', 'Ncuti', etc. Ratings are not the be all and end all no matter how people love to get bogged down in it. The show is, and will continue to be, successful.

% change between episode 1 and episode 6 of every series post-2005 (using final +7 figures with 4-screen where available)

 

-20.2% | Series 1 (2005)

-11.4% | Series 2 (2006)

-17.5% | Series 3 (2007)

-19.8% | Series 4 (2008)

-23.8% | Series 5 (2010)

-24.2% | Series 6 (2011)

+01.3% | Series 7 (2012) *

-25.6% | Series 8 (2014)

-06.6% | Series 9 (2015)

-17.2% | Series 10 (2017)

-31.8% | Series 11 (2018)

-24.2% | Series 12 (2020)

-19.4% | Series 13 (2021)

-12.2% | Season 1 (2024)

 

* due to the split-series nature of series 7, episode 6 was the launch of the second half of the series.

 

 

 

Perhaps, slightly misleading as in most of those series episode 6 would fall in the mid season slump though and there was traditional a boost as the finale arrived. This doesn't seem to be happening this year

 

You're talking about the show constantly. Everybody is. It's been trending every week on Twitter, with the top trends following last week's episode being 'Sutekh', 'Doctor Who', 'Ncuti', etc. Ratings are not the be all and end all no matter how people love to get bogged down in it. The show is, and will continue to be, successful.

No, I got your point, it was just wrong from my perspective. Trust me I'm really not talking about it all the time. I only know two other people who still watch it and we almost never discuss it as I only see them once a month. This is the only place where I converse with other people about it at all.

Perhaps, slightly misleading as in most of those series episode 6 would fall in the mid season slump though and there was traditional a boost as the finale arrived. This doesn't seem to be happening this year

There's more context for most I'm sure, though series 6 (part 1) and series 13 would still be fair comparisons if you wanted to compare on a more specific level and the drop is significantly less than both.

It’s interesting that people who are not enjoying the show are always the ones trying to convince everyone it’s doing really badly.

 

Personally, I’ve not see the show talked about this much in years. My dad is a lifelong fan from the beginning and over the past few years we used to ask ‘did you see Doctor Who?’ And respond with ‘yeah, it wasn’t very good’ or ‘it was alright, I guess’. This series we have really gotten back to properly talking about it, discussing theories and such.

 

Some people do just have to accept the show isn’t for them anymore. Russell is right about that. It’s not an age thing, otherwise my dad would fall into the mix with these people allegedly giving up. Russell basically said that if you can’t embrace the diversity and progressiveness of the cast and themes, then it’s not for you. Doctor Who has always been progressive, it’s just that it’s also now evolved.

 

I’d love to think that anyone disappointed is that way because the stories are not good but these threads have literally been complaining about parking the Tardis in the wrong place, the Doctor going clubbing and the Doctor being upset about being on the receiving end of racism. It’s absolutely nitpicky to the point that it feels people are looking for reasons to dislike it.

It’s interesting that people who are not enjoying the show are always the ones trying to convince everyone it’s doing really badly.

 

Personally, I’ve not see the show talked about this much in years. My dad is a lifelong fan from the beginning and over the past few years we used to ask ‘did you see Doctor Who?’ And respond with ‘yeah, it wasn’t very good’ or ‘it was alright, I guess’. This series we have really gotten back to properly talking about it, discussing theories and such.

 

Some people do just have to accept the show isn’t for them anymore. Russell is right about that. It’s not an age thing, otherwise my dad would fall into the mix with these people allegedly giving up. Russell basically said that if you can’t embrace the diversity and progressiveness of the cast and themes, then it’s not for you. Doctor Who has always been progressive, it’s just that it’s also now evolved.

 

I’d love to think that anyone disappointed is that way because the stories are not good but these threads have literally been complaining about parking the Tardis in the wrong place, the Doctor going clubbing and the Doctor being upset about being on the receiving end of racism. It’s absolutely nitpicky to the point that it feels people are looking for reasons to dislike it.

Well said :clap:

Some people do just have to accept the show isn’t for them anymore. Russell is right about that. It’s not an age thing, otherwise my dad would fall into the mix with these people allegedly giving up. Russell basically said that if you can’t embrace the diversity and progressiveness of the cast and themes, then it’s not for you. Doctor Who has always been progressive, it’s just that it’s also now evolved.

You see I agree with much of what you say here. The show has always been progressive and I will always support that. It has also changed and whilst it isn't the way I'd prefer the show to be (darker, more serious less sexualised and more adult in tone) that isn't the problem.

 

I take issue with elements in the writing, characterisation and inconsistent storytelling.

For instance The Doctor taking all of 5 minutes to get horny over Rogue goes against decades of crafting a character who was always at odds with people who operate as a bounty hunter. Not to mention 13 rejected Yaz despite a close and clearly mutual affection. When RTD decided to make The Doctor and Rose sort of a couple he opened a can of worms that has thrown up loads of inconsistencies, contradictions and historical errors that it has become more of a mess the longer it goes on and it now seems to be a similar approach across the board.

Most of that I can live with and sometimes it really works if you ignore the obvious (River, Missy, Pompadour, Harkness) but the real concern is he seems to be pushing the show in an increasingly niche direction much like JNT did in the mid 80s and that's potentially dangerous territory.

Would I say I'm enjoying the show? Mostly but there have been some stinkers, some underwhelming episodes a really good one and a couple of bangers.

It's not the worst season ever for me but it's nearer the bottom than the top and the problem remains the writing.

 

.

% change between episode 1 and episode 6 of every series post-2005 (using final +7 figures with 4-screen where available)

 

-20.2% | Series 1 (2005)

-11.4% | Series 2 (2006)

-17.5% | Series 3 (2007)

-19.8% | Series 4 (2008)

-23.8% | Series 5 (2010)

-24.2% | Series 6 (2011)

+01.3% | Series 7 (2012) *

-25.6% | Series 8 (2014)

-06.6% | Series 9 (2015)

-17.2% | Series 10 (2017)

-31.8% | Series 11 (2018)

-24.2% | Series 12 (2020)

-19.4% | Series 13 (2021)

-12.2% | Season 1 (2024)

 

* due to the split-series nature of series 7, episode 6 was the launch of the second half of the series.

 

Blue series featured the first episode of a new Doctor. Obviously series 2 and season 1 were the first outings for their respective Doctors too but their very first episode aired the preceding Christmas.

 

Series 7 discounted due to it being something of an outlier, 2024's season 1 has seen the third lowest % drop-off from episode 1 to episode 6 of the entire modern run - and the lowest since 2015.

 

In addition, the average percentage audience share (final figures, TV only) for each series in full (regular episodes only, no special episodes):

 

40.2% | Series 1 (2005)

40.6% | Series 2 (2006)

38.9% | Series 3 (2007)

38.7% | Series 4 (2008)

36.7% | Series 5 (2010)

33.6% | Series 6 (2011)

31.9% | Series 7 (2012)

28.8% | Series 8 (2014)

24.7% | Series 9 (2015)

27.2% | Series 10 (2017)

33.4% | Series 11 (2018)

23.6% | Series 12 (2020)

26.8% | Series 13 (2021)

29.2% | Season 1 (2024) - episodes 1-5 only

 

So in terms of the audience share so far, we're at our highest level since 2018, where there was naturally an interest in the first female Doctor resulting in an unusually high first couple of episodes. All of Capaldi's had a lower audience share on average too.

 

All of this just goes to show how the raw figures say more about how ratings *across the board* are significantly down than the audience in general not caring about Doctor Who. I'm not being a blind fan when I say we're fine because delving into the statistics proves this!

So the first set of statistics debunks this entirely - if it's cumulative and everything on that list is as bad as you're saying, why has this series had the best audience retention in 9 years?

 

(would also love to know what the issue with racist white people being fictionally murdered is tbh x)

 

audience share or not, declining viewers for any TV show will make it more difficult for a very cash-strapped BBC to justify expensive shows without Disney on board - and that remains to be seen whether they will stay. RTD has not confirmed anything beyond the next season, so nothing is guaranteed. They arent saying "this is a 5-season deal, no worries!".

 

Err, re white racists being murdered - as the Doctor tried to point out (quite rightly) all murder and killing is wrong. He tried to make them see their own foolishness and still kept on trying - which is entirely consistent with The Doctor, that was a plus. Something more nuanced would have been much better - in Star Trek, it's one alien species being racist against another, or a silly black-white split being hating a white-black split being, to make the whole idea of racism look stupid. This script invited "serves 'em right" despite the message on the surface being "all murder is wrong". No sense of redeeming, or gratitude, or subtlety here, not one single person realising the error of their ways. Just "serves 'em right" the vacuous racists, and gives the Doctor another opportunity to shed a virtue-signalling tear at having tried. Not hard enough apparently.

 

Elsewhere in comments: On my comment about one minor Tardis-parking annoyance (having stated my problem was with the scripts, I just couldnt be bothered to list them all and used that as a minor example of something), let me expand on that one minor annoyance. He also parked the Tardis in Ruby's mum's flat and semi-destroyed it with no attempt to correct the damage or investigate why he did that for the first-time ever; plummeted at break-neck speed through the air, slid out of control into UNIT HQ and could have killed any number of people. Though I assume that's due to the sitting Dog-God on it (which he should have paid attention to by now if the Tardis is malfunctioning). Woof! They should have fetched some emergency doggie-treats!

 

So I'm doubling down on RTD. He should know better, he knows how to write properly constructed stories so this is just sloppy writing - it's more about keeping 5-year-olds happy with manic SFX excitement, ooh crashing Tardis that's exciting, stops you noticing the plotholes. This version of The Doctor has little gravitas. Great for kids I hope, but not for me. Though when I was a kid none of my Doctor's needed to be any of those things for me to love it, you don't have to talk down to kids trying to compete with the latest manic animated children's series. And, finally, so much is left unexplained for the finale, so many massive plotlines ignored. Time for the Mavity-stuff to come down to Earth, as I was left very unsatisfied :o

 

Bring back Stephen Moffat, please! Great script! The best era too, just ahead of RTD mark 1. I'm not harking back to the 60's or whatever due to nostalgia, I'm assessing them on quality and those were the 2 best eras.

 

Bring back Stephen Moffat, please! Great script! The best era too, just ahead of RTD mark 1. I'm not harking back to the 60's or whatever due to nostalgia, I'm assessing them on quality and those were the 2 best eras.

 

I'd argue there's a very strong case for Philip Hinchcliffe's tenure as producer being the best era too, especially with Robert Holmes as script editor

Seems the long-rumoured spin off The War Between the Land and the Sea is due to start filming in September. I wouldn't be surprised if this is what Moffat's been referring to when he mentioned having to see the script for series 15's finale. Probably head writer for this, and I imagine it'll end up filling the gap of no Who from when series 15 ends to Christmas/series 16.

Well, I think whichever way you look at it, over the course of the 8 core episodes of the season, it's held up remarkably well.

 

The Season Premiere Space Babies +7 days - 3.71 million

The finale, The Empire of death has +7 days - 3.69 million.

 

A loss of 200,000 between premiere and finale is alright no? Yeah viewing number did drop a bit during the run but they did stabalise and returned to where they started. To top it off, over the course of the time since it premiered, space babies is apparently at 6 million viewed now. Not bad. Of course you could say it's not like for like because it used to be that you watched it when it premiered back in the day and then you couldn't watch it again whereas now you can watch it as much as you like but I would then say that the latter viewing numbers matter just as much because the majority of those will be new viewers that originally would have watched it the night it premiered on terrestrial TV.

Yeah that's good and stable. Most shows usually peak episode 1 and then have a drop off throughout the series. So its good that they were stable throughout.

Latest rumour is that season 2 will air earlier in the year in 2025, launching around late March. I think that's definitely a wise decision, coinciding with some of the big event TV coming to a close that starts in January.

Release it now x

An interesting read.

 

https://deadline.com/2024/07/doctor-who-ana...bbc-1236008287/

 

On the one hand it's worryingly early to hear talk of Disney already downplaying the show and potentially pulling out. On the other hand, them doing so might be the best thing for the show.

 

Either way if they did pull out it would be a big shake up, especially with the possibility open for Gatwa to walk already. I don't see him staying too long myself. He's very in demand right now and will be flooded with other offers. Too long in the role will potentially risk that.

An interesting read for those that want to buy into the idea that the show’s not doing well. That article’s been flaunted around Twitter so much recently, and it really reads as an opinion piece rather than informative, intelligent journalism (heck, they don’t even know the difference between 60th specials and a Christmas special!)