May 11, 20241 yr I dont think Israel are being criticise for their song being political...it's not about the song, it's about the country and the double standards of EBU banning Russia but not Israel.
May 11, 20241 yr Why was it ok for Ukraine to enter and win with an explicitly political song in 2016 but Israel is crucified for having a song that some interpret to be political? It just seems so hypocritical to me, the same people that celebrated Jamala are attacking Eden The difference between the actions of the Ukrainian state (defending its sovereignty from a hostile invasion) and the actions of the Israeli state (mass slaughter of innocent civilians as it embarks on an ill-advised crusade into foreign territory that clearly it believes it has a right to) is what generally makes the difference, I would say.
May 11, 20241 yr But if the way of Israel not winning is for people to vote for someone else then why is the campaign not for that, mobilising around another entry, instead of withdrawing altogether and clearing the road for an Israel victory which will only ultimately increase their sphere of influence? I don't understand how this is different from when a dangerous electoral candidate is standing, deciding to not vote, even knowing that then damnsyou to live under that person's rule. Wouldn't mass withdrawals split the anti-Israel vote less ways - giving the chosen one more chance of beating them?
May 11, 20241 yr But if the way of Israel not winning is for people to vote for someone else then why is the campaign not for that, mobilising around another entry, instead of withdrawing altogether and clearing the road for an Israel victory which will only ultimately increase their sphere of influence? I don't understand how this is different from when a dangerous electoral candidate is standing, deciding to not vote, even knowing that then damnsyou to live under that person's rule. Incidentally this is my rationale about not boycotting, because I did not want to give up the contest I love to these people and I know that they do get more soft power from winning even with some moral people not engaging. In the event of an Israeli victory it will become all about them and I don't want to be engaging with that.
May 11, 20241 yr Wouldn't mass withdrawals split the anti-Israel vote less ways - giving the chosen one more chance of beating them? I'm talking about the people boycotting and not watching it in the first place. I haven't yet seen a good argument for that. "The viewing figures will be less" aye great, real blow you're striking to Israel there if they win anyway.
May 11, 20241 yr Well if Iz agrees I must be doing something right! Idk it just seems to me like misplaced energy in order to do something that sounds stancey but hasn't really been thought through.
May 11, 20241 yr Agreed with Iz and Jupiter I was still gagged whem I saw the Israeli singer's name in thr semis - Eden Golan!!!
May 11, 20241 yr The difference between the actions of the Ukrainian state (defending its sovereignty from a hostile invasion) and the actions of the Israeli state (mass slaughter of innocent civilians as it embarks on an ill-advised crusade into foreign territory that clearly it believes it has a right to) is what generally makes the difference, I would say. Their rules state: “The ESC is a non-political event. All Participating Broadcasters, including the Host Broadcaster, shall be responsible to ensure that all necessary measures are undertaken within in their respective Delegations and teams to safeguard the interests and the integrity of the ESC and to make sure that the ESC shall in no case be politicized and/or instrumentalized and/or otherwise brought into disrepute in any way.” It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the message of the song or not
May 11, 20241 yr Tbh I'm hoping some of the acts maybe revamp their performances to protest! I'm a bit excited. I hope it goes off still bc I really planned this night as a treat for myself after a really stressful recent time.
May 11, 20241 yr I'm hoping for resistance. A few of my friends who normally watch Eurovision have got Palestinian flags and are now in Central London on a demo against the genocide Annoyingly have prior engagement but that's where my heart is!
May 11, 20241 yr Their rules state: “The ESC is a non-political event. All Participating Broadcasters, including the Host Broadcaster, shall be responsible to ensure that all necessary measures are undertaken within in their respective Delegations and teams to safeguard the interests and the integrity of the ESC and to make sure that the ESC shall in no case be politicized and/or instrumentalized and/or otherwise brought into disrepute in any way.” It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the message of the song or not That's the letter of the rules. In practice, historical and contemporary allusions, as present in '1944' and 'Stefania' have been within the rules and allowed. That happening sometimes is unavoidable when your competitors are nation-states, inherently political constructions. This is also why 'Hurricane' was allowed by the rules, even though it is to many people still unacceptably about Israel's victimhood and the invasion of Gaza, they changed the lyrics from 'October Rain' to be more generic and allegorical. If I were in charge of the EBU I still would not have allowed it as an obvious rewrite of a political song, but that's been done. But we both know this isn't about the official Eurovision rules, it's about what people deem acceptable and in Europe, supporting Ukraine in the Ukraine-Russia war is a pretty uncontroversial position. Israel-Palestine is pretty controversial and to much of Eurovision's fanbase, their view on the moral position is against Israel, the country in Eurovision.
May 11, 20241 yr @1789348386560254273 Käärijä also refuses to read the points tonight Nobody wants to be the ones to say Israel 12 points!
May 11, 20241 yr That points reveal is going to be so tense. At least most of the jury will likely not be doing 'Israel 12 points' but I can imagine many of the spokespeople being uncomfortable speaking with how events have unfolded over the last 48 hours.
May 11, 20241 yr Their rules state: “The ESC is a non-political event. All Participating Broadcasters, including the Host Broadcaster, shall be responsible to ensure that all necessary measures are undertaken within in their respective Delegations and teams to safeguard the interests and the integrity of the ESC and to make sure that the ESC shall in no case be politicized and/or instrumentalized and/or otherwise brought into disrepute in any way.” It doesn’t matter whether you agree with the message of the song or not lol this just proves exactly why israel should be banned im sorry but i don’t agree with any of you who say a boycott is not the only acceptable act tonight. if you are watching then you are participating in what is a very clear political position in allowing israel to enter. you are showing the EBU that you find their behaviour and choices to be acceptable. you are lining the pockets of those making a profit of the participation of a genocidal government.
May 11, 20241 yr Can Eurovision put a delay in the performance? I reckon they might do that so that anything political can be bleeped out. Tbh my view is Israel should have been banned following the lines of Russia. I think there's a lot of unjust criticism at them though, it's easy in hindsight to say it now and I do think they need to address the rules to be really clear going forward, as this years contest is going to be entirely politicised (on both sides) whether they like it or not and I'm sure they can do too much about it now.
May 11, 20241 yr hmm could be just attempted damage control for Kaarija as he's already been cancelled by Twitter for having been caught dancing with Eden Golan on video
May 11, 20241 yr Author The Sun also reports Loreen will refuse to hand over trophy if Eden Golan wins tonight https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/27865...ict%20in%20Gaza.
May 11, 20241 yr The Sun also reports Loreen will refuse to hand over trophy if Eden Golan wins tonight https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/27865...ict%20in%20Gaza. Queen :wub:
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