I mean it's not school kids out rioting in the streets or the Facebook wine mum's scrapping while they top up their tan... football fans have a reputation for being violent, it's fact that violent crime rates go up when there's certain matches on, obviously not all fans but it is a prominent part of UK football culture, when the evidence is there it's not a generalisation really. Matches aren't on at the moment so these types of individuals are likely to look for another excuse to behave like animals.

 

That's a really bad and lazy sterotype yourself and others are using here. Much like how people are believing immigrants to be behind every single piece of lies, peddling this myth is how the State got to cover up Hillsborough. You'd see 10x the violence walking out the streets in a town/city nightlife than at a big football game.

 

Of course Hooliganism still exists, but it's nowhere near the same problem it was in the 80s, which is down to education and better policing. Associating this gang of EDL w*n**rs as footnall hooligans is such a lazy stereotype. Agree with Steve here - the hot weather is a contributing pattern, it's quite a common thing when these pockets of violence occur. Clearly here we're being peddled fake news by a hostile foreign state and the likes of Yaxley & Reform are stoking the fire to fit their narrative.

Yeah people do easily smear certain people because there were riots when the authorities took the Romanian kids and there have been riots by other communities when certain things happen, would t say there were riots but there were verging on that after the cop kicking that guy in Rochdale or wherever it was. But when people riot over children being stabbed it brings out a lot of stereotypes. I’m sure a lot of them have bad intentions but at the end of the day in 2011 it was about mark duggan or something and mostly a black thing. Every community has a section of people who will react in a certain way when something happens but people only feel comfortable insulting a specific one

I mean it's not school kids out rioting in the streets or the Facebook wine mum's scrapping while they top up their tan... football fans have a reputation for being violent, it's fact that violent crime rates go up when there's certain matches on, obviously not all fans but it is a prominent part of UK football culture, when the evidence is there it's not a generalisation really. Matches aren't on at the moment so these types of individuals are likely to look for another excuse to behave like animals.

 

“People who drink alcohol have a reputation for being violent. Violent crime rates also rise when people drink alcohol, obviously not all drinkers, but it is a prominent part of drinking culture in the Uk, when the evidence is there it’s not a generalisation.”

 

Is that statement true as well or is it unfair to the vast majority of people who go out for a drink and enjoy it because they love the social aspect of it and don’t cause trouble.

At a rough calculation, just under 900,000 people go to watch a football match across all of the leagues in England every weekend, and you rarely hear of any significant violence at matches these days. Approximately 31% of the population also consider themselves football fans.

 

Given such high numbers and such a large proportion of the population involved, to make the correlation between 'football fans' and the violence we've seen recently, feels like quite the stretch, and falling prey to a lazy, outdated stereotype, when we really should be calling these individuals out for what they are - racists and fascist thugs, who are very often directed by supposedly respectable individuals such as Mosley or Farage.

 

Otherwise we're just perpetuating the demonisation of a largely innocent group and allowing the real scum to continue orchestrating the narrative.

Look, nobody is saying all the people rioting over this are all of the football fans that have nowhere else to go but chances are there are a lot of the people who are involved in football related violence are also involved in this, that's not exclusively either of course there will be other groups among it too, my point is that people will find an excuse to fuel their own agendas regardless, if it's not football it's 'patriotism' if it's not that it'll be something else. Admittedly I've never gone to a football game in my life and don't have any desire to but the culture around it is what puts me off. Maybe it's not such an issue in other parts of the country but literally every time the two main Glasgow teams are playing there's increased police presence, the city centre is trashed, people are getting attacked, people are discriminated against based on the team they support even aside from all of that so no it's not a generalisation when it's something that regularly happens, it's just fact.

 

This thread isn't even about football I was only chiming in because I can understand where hassaan is coming from with the comparison.

Otherwise we're just perpetuating the demonisation of a largely innocent group and allowing the real scum to continue orchestrating the narrative.

I specifically said football hooligans, not football fans.

 

Either way, that's the image that's out there.

Edited August 2, 2024Aug 2 by Hassaan

My goodness, the straight white pearl clutching in here has gone into overdrive!

 

Apart from the fact that NO ONE has said that ALL football fans are hooligans and at least THREE of us have outright said that this isn’t the case, I’m not sure why there is such a generalisation. Not all football fans are hooligans but on the other hand, all hooligans are football fans so it isn’t a leap to speculate that. It is well known that some football clubs are used by far right ‘activists’ as channels for grooming young people into extremism. I actually have experience of trying to help a young lad I taught who was indoctrinated into the EDL through Chester football club. I remember him buzzing when he featured in several shots during a documentary about football hooliganism. Football matches are the perfect places for these like minded people to meet. Does that mean everyone that enjoys football is a far right hooligan? Of course it doesn’t and given that no one in the this thread even said that, perhaps people could read the actual posts and sit down?

 

Honestly I have often battled and called out homophobia, transphobia, misogyny and racism on here and been ridiculed for doing so and complained about to management but I honestly hadn’t realised that being a football fan was a protected characteristic and especially not that it was the only one people on here care about.

 

Three girls have been killed, several more injured and communities are suffering from violence and riots. But suggesting football hooligans have anything to do with it is a step too far!

Look, nobody is saying all the people rioting over this are all of the football fans that have nowhere else to go but chances are there are a lot of the people who are involved in football related violence are also involved in this, that's not exclusively either of course there will be other groups among it too, my point is that people will find an excuse to fuel their own agendas regardless, if it's not football it's 'patriotism' if it's not that it'll be something else. Admittedly I've never gone to a football game in my life and don't have any desire to but the culture around it is what puts me off. Maybe it's not such an issue in other parts of the country but literally every time the two main Glasgow teams are playing there's increased police presence, the city centre is trashed, people are getting attacked, people are discriminated against based on the team they support even aside from all of that so no it's not a generalisation when it's something that regularly happens, it's just fact.

 

This thread isn't even about football I was only chiming in because I can understand where hassaan is coming from with the comparison.

 

The comparison is completely stereotypical and wrong then as it tars a whole group of people with the same brush which is wrong when both sides do it imo. I love football and go every week, am a teetotaler and hate hooligan culture in general whether it be at football or on nights out or any other venue. So things are not black and white. The club I go to even has the clubs flag/colours with the LGBTQ+ logo to make that section of the crowd feel welcome in what traditionally wouldnt have been what seemed to them to be safe.

 

Coming from Glasgow I completely understand if you have that view because Glasgow is a extreme example of football culture but, again its not football that causes that its historic religious/cultural discrimination that has been in Scottish society for centuries.

The comparison is completely stereotypical and wrong then as it tars a whole group of people with the same brush which is wrong when both sides do it imo. I love football and go every week, am a teetotaler and hate hooligan culture in general whether it be at football or on nights out or any other venue. So things are not black and white. The club I go to even has the clubs flag/colours with the LGBTQ+ logo to make that section of the crowd feel welcome in what traditionally wouldnt have been what seemed to them to be safe.

 

Coming from Glasgow I completely understand if you have that view because Glasgow is a extreme example of football culture but, again its not football that causes that its historic religious/cultural discrimination that has been in Scottish society for centuries.

 

Perhaps maybe read what’s being posted because I can’t see where Lindsey said anything you’re claiming she did.

 

My goodness, the straight white pearl clutching in here has gone into overdrive!

 

Apart from the fact that NO ONE has said that ALL football fans are hooligans and at least THREE of us have outright said that this isn’t the case, I’m not sure why there is such a generalisation. Not all football fans are hooligans but on the other hand, all hooligans are football fans so it isn’t a leap to speculate that. It is well known that some football clubs are used by far right ‘activists’ as channels for grooming young people into extremism. I actually have experience of trying to help a young lad I taught who was indoctrinated into the EDL through Chester football club. I remember him buzzing when he featured in several shots during a documentary about football hooliganism. Football matches are the perfect places for these like minded people to meet. Does that mean everyone that enjoys football is a far right hooligan? Of course it doesn’t and given that no one in the this thread even said that, perhaps people could read the actual posts and sit down?

 

Honestly I have often battled and called out homophobia, transphobia, misogyny and racism on here and been ridiculed for doing so and complained about to management but I honestly hadn’t realised that being a football fan was a protected characteristic and especially not that it was the only one people on here care about.

 

Three girls have been killed, several more injured and communities are suffering from violence and riots. But suggesting football hooligans have anything to do with it is a step too far!

 

The original poster said 'the football season must be on a break' which to me insinuates every football fan must get involved with trouble. Its not a great thing to say tarring alot of people with the suggestion they get involved in these things. Just because the poster didnt say 'all football fans' is irrelevant to me.

 

And its not very nice to say 'the straight white pearl clutching in here has gone into overdrive' - its just childish. You are the first to post that you get ridiculed for calling certain views out when you seem to be good at doing that yourself to people on here with other viewpoints.

I don't think it's too misguided of an assumption to suggest a lot of the perpetrators happened to be football fans but I don't see how it's relevant to the discussion. Plus the fact that it's now the football break is also a strange take, if the season had already started are we saying that there wouldn't be as much trouble? If you recall 2011, those riots actually delayed games in the football season.

The original poster said 'the football season must be on a break' which to me insinuates every football fan must get involved with trouble. Its not a great thing to say tarring alot of people with the suggestion they get involved in these things. Just because the poster didnt say 'all football fans' is irrelevant to me.

 

And its not very nice to say 'the straight white pearl clutching in here has gone into overdrive' - its just childish. You are the first to post that you get ridiculed for calling certain views out when you seem to be good at doing that yourself to people on here with other viewpoints.

 

Oh, sit down.

 

Assuming that poster meant every single football fan was a reach and you know it. And even if I could give you the benefit of the doubt on that, it was repeatedly stated by the poster in question plus a couple of others that this is not what was meant but you’ve chosen to ignore that and repeatedly whinge like being a football fan is somehow a minority group in danger.

 

And don’t tell me I’m not being nice. I’m calling out views I think are wrong and have been holding back for a very long time when I see the same rubbish regurgitated by the same people. Apart from your pride, I actually don’t see what I’m hurting by calling these things out. Call me what you want, report me to management for upsetting you, I actually don’t care at this point. If you could just admit you misunderstood the initial posts and drop it that’d be great. But I know you won’t.

Edited August 2, 2024Aug 2 by T Boy

I get the comparisons to the football fans. It makes sense and is perfectly believable. People just jump to protect anything these days

Steve, do you just need me to clarify that I don't think you're a hooligan for enjoying football or??

I fail to see why my initial comment was so controversial. It's pretty clear what I meant and if it doesn't apply to you, what's the problem?

 

No one who actually has something productive to do with their time takes part in a riot. Going to a football match is, by comparison, productive.

Edited August 2, 2024Aug 2 by Hassaan

Oh, sit down.

 

Assuming that poster meant every single football fan was a reach and you know it. And even if I could give you the benefit of the doubt on that, it was repeatedly stated by the poster in question plus a couple of others that this is not what was meant but you’ve chosen to ignore that and repeatedly whinge like being a football fan is somehow a minority group in danger.

 

And don’t tell me I’m not being nice. I’m calling out views I think are wrong and have been holding back for a very long time when I see the same rubbish regurgitated by the same people. Apart from your pride, I actually don’t see what I’m hurting by calling these things out. Call me what you want, report me to management for upsetting you, I actually don’t care at this point. If you could just admit you misunderstood the initial posts and drop it that’d be great. But I know you won’t.

 

How is it a reach to think that when the initial post didn't clarify that?

 

I haven't chosen to to whinge on about it like you characterise it I merely stated that it wasn't right to say that and the posters who pointed that out to me then clarified what they meant AFTER. I then had a discussion with Lindsay where I tried to find common ground with her points about living in Glasgow and the football culture there then highlighted a positive side of it from the club I support to shows there's different sides to it. That was just a normal discussion for me.

 

You aren't being nice/polite and I will tell you that if I feel that - 2 of your posts called me a 'straight white pearl' and to 'sit down' imagine I said something like that to you or others?

 

You create the impression you are holding back but whenever there's a debate you can guarantee you will enter it on the one side. So I don't think you're at all as innocent as you like to make out. The stuff about management I have never been involved in so cant comment on that tbh. And for the record I wont report you I have never reported anyone on this site despite the aggressive tone you use towards me on nearly every reply directed at me even when I am simply giving my opinion. You say you are simply calling out views you think are wrong but that's all I am doing too and as much as you dont like that fact it will continue.

 

 

I fail to see why my initial comment was so controversial. It's pretty clear what I meant and if it doesn't apply to you, what's the problem?

 

No one who actually has something productive to do with their time takes part in a riot. Going to a football match is, by comparison, productive.

 

I dont think your post was controversial I just wanted to clarify you didnt mean all football fans as I feel thats a lazy stereotype which has been said here more than once (not by you) which annoys me.

People have clarified multiple times what they meant though but you're choosing to ignore what they're actually saying in favour of going off about some other irk you have which nobody has in actual fact said. It's also not got anything to do with the topic, like Toby said, football fans aren't the minority group being targeted here.

I dont think your post was controversial I just wanted to clarify you didnt mean all football fans as I feel thats a lazy stereotype which has been said here more than once (not by you) which annoys me.

It's moving into "not all men" territory. Yes, not all football fans, but there's enough of them for that reputation to have taken hold in the first place.

 

Somehow I don't think football fans being stereotyped will impact them, not that it's even the most important part of the whole saga.

Edited August 2, 2024Aug 2 by Hassaan

How is it a reach to think that when the initial post didn't clarify that?

 

I haven't chosen to to whinge on about it like you characterise it I merely stated that it wasn't right to say that and the posters who pointed that out to me then clarified what they meant AFTER. I then had a discussion with Lindsay where I tried to find common ground with her points about living in Glasgow and the football culture there then highlighted a positive side of it from the club I support to shows there's different sides to it. That was just a normal discussion for me.

 

You aren't being nice/polite and I will tell you that if I feel that - 2 of your posts called me a 'straight white pearl' and to 'sit down' imagine I said something like that to you or others?

 

You create the impression you are holding back but whenever there's a debate you can guarantee you will enter it on the one side. So I don't think you're at all as innocent as you like to make out. The stuff about management I have never been involved in so cant comment on that tbh. And for the record I wont report you I have never reported anyone on this site despite the aggressive tone you use towards me on nearly every reply directed at me even when I am simply giving my opinion. You say you are simply calling out views you think are wrong but that's all I am doing too and as much as you dont like that fact it will continue.

 

Of course I’m on one side of any debate, I don’t sit on the fence. I called out straight white pearl clutching because a number of posters, not just you, were doing just that. The fragile egos of football fans aren’t really that important right now and it was a reach to come to the conclusion you, and others, did. There is no way Hassan’s comment meant that he thought all football fans must be hooligans. Even if it was hyperbolic, it was clearly obviously so and therefore didn’t need the backlash of ‘not all football fans’ and then being called lazy.

 

I don’t make out that I’m ’innocent’ at all. I’ve always been a straight shooter on this site and for your information, I’ve very much been holding back this year when it comes to calling things out. I just see that you’re constantly winding people up and whenever anyone does call you on you act all noble like you’re just seeing both sides or something. You backtrack so much. You act like you’re above everyone else because you seem to see people being on one side of a debate as some sort of weakness when really they’re just sticking to their convictions. You do it in the Chart forum too. It’s irritating.

 

The fact is that multiple posters even explained the initial post to you and you largely chose to ignore it, repeatedly described people as ‘lazy’ and acted like you’re some sort of persecuted mintority.