2 hours ago, Iz 🌟 said:

'pick your poison' and instead of just a bland suit followed by professional politicians who will try to tackle the generally insurmountable issues affecting the country it's a loudmouth fascist because that's apparently acceptable to the people who tactically vote against the Tories (???)

Well they say the grass is always greener on the other side. I've never known a newly elected government to be so unpopular and the Conservative government are still fresh in peoples minds. That alone is going to put a 3rd option in a strong position.

I think the only hope we have is that some f***-up in the next four years of their own making destroys their name, it's definitely possible given they are a completely incompetent party politically and have no concrete plans outside of rage-baiting and keeping the media and far right on their side. I also think the Tories could clear themselves up if they got a more competent leader that can better put them as an alternative, Badenoch is completely holding them back. The locals will do wonders for them though and if the election were held today, they'd probably win big. It also will depend on what happens in the US election, a Democrat government I think would be less good for them with international relations.

It's really quite concerning with flags lining the streets and blatant misinformation and rhetoric being twisted in ways to paint migrants as the sole issue hampering our country and threatening our national identity (legally we have to house migrants while they claim asylum, anything else would be a violation of human rights, but that involves reading comprehension beyond the headlines). I think we're heading in a bad direction.

Don’t really get the Letby mention there was a prime ITV show recently that pretty much took apart the case done by a very credible reporter. A very credible journalist gave it 5/5 https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/aug/03/lucy-letby-beyond-reasonable-doubt-review-documentary-itv1-itvx a New York Times article blew it up. It’s been a very liberal led thing overall. But the whole post was wild narratives

Bernie Sanders the far left messiah once said mass immigration was a right wing idea that’s lower wages and decimate working people.

And now apparently disparaging parents for being rightly concerned for their children’s safety is somehow the left position. Sounds like a winning political position for sure.

They do pay American's $2 an hour in restaurants, so that is a load of bollocks.

On 23/08/2025 at 15:46, Spiceboy said:

I'm sorry but was a load of racist tripe! 🫠

Far from it, and nothing of my post warrants that kind of response, stop fighting something you dont agree with by suggesting racism.

20 hours ago, Liаm said:

Disillusioned people on benefits believing everything they read on Facebook are the biggest danger to this country. Rather than realise that it’s the government who has been f***ing them over for years, they will just parrot from their echo chamber about immigrants. I do think Reform’s bungling council efforts will harm them at a future GE by the time it comes, if it happened now I do think they would probably win sadly and I wouldn’t rule it out in the future which is just terrifying to even think about.

I’d rather my tax went on someone who came here to escape danger and try to have a better life than bankroll someone’s children because they cba to get a job if I’m being frank. And it’s all “we’re just concerned mothers” at these idiotic racist protests but crickets when a white person does anything bad. The same people spouting the most horrid racist shite will spend half their day reading conspiracies about how Lucy Letby is innocent

Absolutely agree with the benefits here, and they need to stop it. Majority of people on benefits can work and those who are do bare minimum ao they can get top up. British arent working as its easier not to and not much worse off.

I would also happily rather my tax go to someone struggling however I severely sont think most of this migrants are struggling beforehand and they just eant a way in. Also getting free phone, clothes, driving lessons, accommodation food bills and nhs dentist etc when birtish people cant even afford this and there's people on the streets thats what angers me. Yes put them up in tents or low grade accom but not with all the benefits and not in community's were we arent at that level of immigration.

I know for many this is a scary time however the government really needs to act up fast as

A) to many people are being allowed in who provide nothing and speak no English (which should be necessary)

B) to many are in unsafe roles

C) British born people are struggling and not getting the same help

It is time for a tighter rhetoric on tbis and not to jump to racism and pull the card. Yes a lot of this will stem from racism. However a lot of people these days are easy to defend and don't see the bigger picture.

Am I so in the wrong for wanting to protect safety and my future, I dont think so? Reform yes for me is the only option left at the moment as we have nothing better to hope for. We need tighter border control we need more deportations and we need to ensure our culture is retained. Like many other countries do, if that is racism then let me go back to school and be re taught. And I think the bigger picture is mass population is now the same as me. People ate waking up and yes benefits system is mostly to blame and needs scrapping to some degree.

On 23/08/2025 at 07:55, Iz 🌟 said:

Like I said, low wage pay (to the point that many Brits do not wish to do that work) and the sacrifice of everything on the altar of capitalism is what leads you to that situation where people are being hired from abroad because they accept lower wages for harder, less fulfilling work.

You don't solve that with harsh rhetoric against immigrants, because it also involves burning everything else down, equal rights, cementing low wages for everyone, while you're at it. Besides, the changes that have been made by both the Sunak and Starmer administrations have been largely cutting down on visa-sponsoring and dependents where not necessary, there was a spike just after Covid where people who couldn't return before did, and they have cut down on people abusing masters degrees to get unrelated visas. Governments are doing things, but you don't want them to be doing the flashy stuff, as that is invariably needlessly cruel (recall Home Office vans from Theresa May's time as Home Sec).

Though the care industry specifically will need and will use immigrants for a long time to come, where English is not even a required skill, that is just how it is with our age pyramid.

If you ever have to be looked after by overseas workers who dont speak English dont know care or compassion but want a visa then god help you. Look at the news this is all going to explode very soon

1 hour ago, Rough_edges said:

Absolutely agree with the benefits here, and they need to stop it. Majority of people on benefits can work and those who are do bare minimum ao they can get top up. British arent working as its easier not to and not much worse off.

I would also happily rather my tax go to someone struggling however I severely sont think most of this migrants are struggling beforehand and they just eant a way in. Also getting free phone, clothes, driving lessons, accommodation food bills and nhs dentist etc when birtish people cant even afford this and there's people on the streets thats what angers me. Yes put them up in tents or low grade accom but not with all the benefits and not in community's were we arent at that level of immigration.

I know for many this is a scary time however the government really needs to act up fast as

A) to many people are being allowed in who provide nothing and speak no English (which should be necessary)

B) to many are in unsafe roles

C) British born people are struggling and not getting the same help

It is time for a tighter rhetoric on tbis and not to jump to racism and pull the card. Yes a lot of this will stem from racism. However a lot of people these days are easy to defend and don't see the bigger picture.

Am I so in the wrong for wanting to protect safety and my future, I dont think so? Reform yes for me is the only option left at the moment as we have nothing better to hope for. We need tighter border control we need more deportations and we need to ensure our culture is retained. Like many other countries do, if that is racism then let me go back to school and be re taught. And I think the bigger picture is mass population is now the same as me. People ate waking up and yes benefits system is mostly to blame and needs scrapping to some degree.

Actually, I would advocate you going back to school and being re taught.

Reform won’t do anything, they talk big but actually being responsible for the country would be a nightmare for them. They will suddenly have to deliver all of these things they harp on about from the sidelines and will themselves face heavy criticism.

What is it about British culture you feel is disappearing and needs protecting? I’m very much interested in tangible examples.

My big fear in Welsh elections next year is Reform because it’s pretty much out there that they will not care for the Welsh language/culture. They want to make Wales even more part of the UK and get rid of devolution. I am genuinely worried this will happen.

2 hours ago, Rough_edges said:

If you ever have to be looked after by overseas workers who dont speak English dont know care or compassion but want a visa then god help you. Look at the news this is all going to explode very soon

There were planned protests in a number of places this weekend, was kinda quiet really and in most places the anti-migrant protesters were matched or beaten in numbers by the anti-racists. This is not a majority view, you are living in a bubble in fear of those different from you.

It's also just kinda sad that you clearly see 'overseas workers' as some strange aliens rather than people who think just the same as you and me and can be just like anyone else - interacting with other people across the world and taking the time to get to know them has always been something I've loved doing, and more British people should try it.

3 hours ago, Rough_edges said:

Absolutely agree with the benefits here, and they need to stop it. Majority of people on benefits can work and those who are do bare minimum ao they can get top up. British arent working as its easier not to and not much worse off.

I would also happily rather my tax go to someone struggling however I severely sont think most of this migrants are struggling beforehand and they just eant a way in. Also getting free phone, clothes, driving lessons, accommodation food bills and nhs dentist etc when birtish people cant even afford this and there's people on the streets thats what angers me. Yes put them up in tents or low grade accom but not with all the benefits and not in community's were we arent at that level of immigration.

I know for many this is a scary time however the government really needs to act up fast as

A) to many people are being allowed in who provide nothing and speak no English (which should be necessary)

B) to many are in unsafe roles

C) British born people are struggling and not getting the same help

It is time for a tighter rhetoric on tbis and not to jump to racism and pull the card. Yes a lot of this will stem from racism. However a lot of people these days are easy to defend and don't see the bigger picture.

Am I so in the wrong for wanting to protect safety and my future, I dont think so? Reform yes for me is the only option left at the moment as we have nothing better to hope for. We need tighter border control we need more deportations and we need to ensure our culture is retained. Like many other countries do, if that is racism then let me go back to school and be re taught. And I think the bigger picture is mass population is now the same as me. People ate waking up and yes benefits system is mostly to blame and needs scrapping to some degree.

Your second paragraph is complete misinformed nonsense which is quite dangerous to spread. Asylum seekers DO NOT all get free money automatically, only the most destitute while their asylum is processed, and they get about £50 a week to cover food. clothing, toiletries etc. (£10 a week if your meals are provided), slightly more is given to families and pregnant women. There must also be clear evidence that you need this, god knows where you think they're getting a free phone or driving lessons from, I assume a Facebook post. You can read a bit more here for some actual facts: https://nrpfnetwork.org.uk/information-and-resources/rights-and-entitlements/support-options-for-people-with-nrpf/home-office-support, https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support

Legally, asylum seekers have to be housed while their claims are processed. They are put in basic hotels which they don't get a choice with, where else would you put them in line with our basic obligation to cover Human Rights? In cages?

I think going back to school and learning media literacy wouldn't be the worst thing, as all this post shows is you're far too prone to accept tabloid/social media misinformation.

Depends if they find out what their actual policies are

What do Reform voters actually make of the party's policies? We went to Blackpool to find out.

I think the biggest thing people need to remember is Farage is a loudmouth with an opinion that very rarely follows through with anything he promises

Take Brexit for one he was the "biggest advacator" the people voted he vanished 🫣

44 minutes ago, Severin said:

Depends if they find out what their actual policies are

What do Reform voters actually make of the party's policies? We went to Blackpool to find out.

That is all very well and good but you have so many useless idiots. Farage and his backers have made a lifetime out of it, some of them don't care of the consequences.

It's why I laugh at people who don't want to be controlled by the Government, yet they're literally being controlled by elite billionaires. Of course if you tell them that, they'll tell you you are wrong. I've kind of given up the point of caring. As daft as it sounds, I kind of hope Boris comes back. While I have no doubt he would still do some of the horrible stuff Reform will do (e.g. leave the human rights act). At least he wouldn't be stupid enough to tear up the NHS,

13 minutes ago, Rooney said:

As daft as it sounds, I kind of hope Boris comes back. While I have no doubt he would still do some of the horrible stuff Reform will do (e.g. leave the human rights act). At least he wouldn't be stupid enough to tear up the NHS,

The thing that mostly concerned me about him was the cult-like fanbase he had. He could do no wrong no matter how much he'd been caught out for lying. They interviewed a Welsh woman (during his PM tenure) who said she liked him despite his lying because "he's human".

I'm quite thankful Boris is out of politics now. The thing in common with other countries that have these dominating, conservative, fascist-adjacent strongmen is that their version is a relatively unique figure, someone who has been active in public life for decades, is widely agreed upon as charismatic, is definitely agreed upon as a "strong leader", perhaps for bending the rules a little, and has some form of a cult of personality behind them. This is true from Putin, to Trump, to Xi, Erdoğan, Orbán, Modi, Netanyahu, Kaczynski in Poland. Any one of these leaving their country's political culture would have dramatic consequences, as there's very little the right-wing has without them, look at the scrambling they're doing to find Le Pen's successor in France, or how lost Brazil's right is now with Bolsonaro in effectual legal trouble (that's how you deal with anti-democratic presidents, Americans). New people of this type are relatively rare too, only Milei in Argentina is really a new star for the global right lately.

Which is to say that the only one of these types Britain has is Johnson. Farage potentially also has some traits of successful strongmen but he's likely more akin to a Le Pen or Weidel, just too apparently batshit to win power democratically in any but the best circumstances (though he might have those). Johnson in his prime would clean up and I don't think he would be immune to the anti-democratic tendencies that this type has to take over and backslide the institutions of power in favour of him keeping it. His relative youth compared to some of those other global strongmen has me very concerned should he ever decide to make a political comeback and it's only the disgrace of his initial ousting and the circuitous routes that we demand new or re-entrants to politics take (be an MP) that has me relatively relaxed about the possibility of his comeback right now. I absolutely do not want him back in political life, ever.

9 hours ago, Iz 🌟 said:

There were planned protests in a number of places this weekend, was kinda quiet really and in most places the anti-migrant protesters were matched or beaten in numbers by the anti-racists. This is not a majority view, you are living in a bubble in fear of those different from you.

Oh my god. There is just no way. Might be the most upside comment ever seen here.

I think people are just happy to be in a comfort zone of delusion and denial. You can see the comments here people cannot process reality or have any real understanding how aloof and detached their preconceived notions are. Attacking someone stating real world lived experience with pretentious drivel. Reform are on 33% I think. Immigration got as high as 54% recently as the most pressing issue. Pretending it’s dumb people being led by the sun newspaper or something it’s just so embarrassing. That guy my random music stated most people voting Farage probably don’t like him that much and that might be the most(maybe the only) accurate thing stated here.

You are telling people to work hard to fund hundreds of thousands of people who have no right to be here. To donate large taxes to public services used by hundreds of thousands who never contributed to them. Accept their wages to be lower but taxes higher with higher costs for worst services. To embrace a low trust society with higher crime and lower standard of living. To ignore enormous amounts of unvetted unknown males who could be literally anyone from rapists to terrorists and when inevitably horrific things happen insult the victims or people unhappy about it?? What is it hassan said “they just want to be angry at something” the level If disdain is pretty out there but the height of selfishness is out there even more.

This is real life guys. People have families. People have eyes. You are not going to gaslight people against their own safety and best interests with fringe spiteful ultra echo chamber nonsense. At least get to a level where you can have a sensible debate because right now it’s just fingers in the ears shouting la la la as there is no accountability or grasping any of the things going on just attacking people who are on denying them outright.

33 minutes ago, Liam Sota said:

Oh my god. There is just no way. Might be the most upside comment ever seen here.

I think people are just happy to be in a comfort zone of delusion and denial. You can see the comments here people cannot process reality or have any real understanding how aloof and detached their preconceived notions are. Attacking someone stating real world lived experience with pretentious drivel. Reform are on 33% I think. Immigration got as high as 54% recently as the most pressing issue. Pretending it’s dumb people being led by the sun newspaper or something it’s just so embarrassing. That guy my random music stated most people voting Farage probably don’t like him that much and that might be the most(maybe the only) accurate thing stated here.

You are telling people to work hard to fund hundreds of thousands of people who have no right to be here. To donate large taxes to public services used by hundreds of thousands who never contributed to them. Accept their wages to be lower but taxes higher with higher costs for worst services. To embrace a low trust society with higher crime and lower standard of living. To ignore enormous amounts of unvetted unknown males who could be literally anyone from rapists to terrorists and when inevitably horrific things happen insult the victims or people unhappy about it?? What is it hassan said “they just want to be angry at something” the level If disdain is pretty out there but the height of selfishness is out there even more.

This is real life guys. People have families. People have eyes. You are not going to gaslight people against their own safety and best interests with fringe spiteful ultra echo chamber nonsense. At least get to a level where you can have a sensible debate because right now it’s just fingers in the ears shouting la la la as there is no accountability or grasping any of the things going on just attacking people who are on denying them outright.

The while I do agree with your point about the there is a bit of denial and delusion in here, I also think you are complicating what is a simple issue.

Quite simply immigrants or non-native speaking English people is an easy solution to a complex problem. The whole issue is set up as a culture war to draw a line and make people pick a side. If you go back 20 years, whenever new countries joined the EU it was "oh we will be flooded with Polish people" etc. etc. - now it is born in to immigration. I could name you tens of examples of where taxes are wasted, the reality is people want their cake and to eat it and all that happens is you enable to Party that people have no idea what they are really voting for just like Brexit.

embarrassing seeing these immigrant views coming as an immigrant myself 🤦

Liam it is impossible to debate with you anyway, you ignore most of the questions posters ask you anyway.

Why is the alleged lived experience of one poster apparently more accurate than the lived experience of the rest of us?

Racists exist and they will vote for reform. That is what this is about. It’s what it’s always about. Racists have always been there but they’ve been emboldened by Brexit. Brexit has improved nothing for them and they’re now looking for other things to blame. They don’t like non white people so I guess they’re next. They will never look at the real reasons why their lives are bad.

Go on Liam, when all the migrants get deported, who will you and your ilk blame then? Because life isn’t magically going to get better afterwards.

Shouting out about families and mothers and children so that they can pretend racism is justified for protection. Accusing every foreigner of being a terrorist or rapist because that will help other people hate them. You talk about gaslighting but these are the people that gaslight all the time.

If anyone utters ‘I think we should grant them asylum’ the crowd your defending jump straight to ‘you think rape is ok then?’

The UK is EXHAUSTING right now and a far darker place than I once thought. And the worst is it hasn’t done this recently. It was always festering but the worst of us are now emboldened.

15 minutes ago, Liam Sota said:

Oh my god. There is just no way. Might be the most upside comment ever seen here.

I think people are just happy to be in a comfort zone of delusion and denial. You can see the comments here people cannot process reality or have any real understanding how aloof and detached their preconceived notions are. Attacking someone stating real world lived experience with pretentious drivel. Reform are on 33% I think. Immigration got as high as 54% recently as the most pressing issue. Pretending it’s dumb people being led by the sun newspaper or something it’s just so embarrassing. That guy my random music stated most people voting Farage probably don’t like him that much and that might be the most(maybe the only) accurate thing stated here.

You are telling people to work hard to fund hundreds of thousands of people who have no right to be here. To donate large taxes to public services used by hundreds of thousands who never contributed to them. Accept their wages to be lower but taxes higher with higher costs for worst services. To embrace a low trust society with higher crime and lower standard of living. To ignore enormous amounts of unvetted unknown males who could be literally anyone from rapists to terrorists and when inevitably horrific things happen insult the victims or people unhappy about it?? What is it hassan said “they just want to be angry at something” the level If disdain is pretty out there but the height of selfishness is out there even more.

This is real life guys. People have families. People have eyes. You are not going to gaslight people against their own safety and best interests with fringe spiteful ultra echo chamber nonsense. At least get to a level where you can have a sensible debate because right now it’s just fingers in the ears shouting la la la as there is no accountability or grasping any of the things going on just attacking people who are on denying them outright.

I'm going to focus on the central theme here because there's no need to respond to most of this poorly-researched and error-ridden gish gallop. That central theme is: Why is immigration so high as a pressing issue and is it a sensible issue to be so high?

It's not because it affects anyone's wellbeing, because unless you're in direct competition for jobs with immigrants (far less likely than anyone would have you believe, as immigrants are inherently at a disadvantage due to Right To Work), it doesn't. In fact it's inherently illogical to focus on as an issue in comparison to the economy or any number of public services which all do directly affect most voters. Yet it has been at every election for some time a significant one. Why? It's not quite as simple as 'politicians use it as a distraction', but it's so easy to do for unscrupulous ones because many of the population are primed against migrants based on outlier crime stories they imagine are a common reality, or some vague sentiments about losing 'their country'. I live in a very diverse part of the country and I love that because of that I have access to a good portion of the whole world relatively near me.

If there were concerns about conservative culture coming in with migrants (potentially but likely overblown), or migrant crime (definitely overblown), I'd sympathise somewhat, but ultimately I'm against anti-migrant policies not only because they're cruel but because they are a severe distraction from focusing on economic injustice and actually fixing the economic anxieties that trouble a large number of the people who claim immigration as their primary concern. They want Reform to win the next election, come in with a set of mass deportations et al, and if they worked (a huge if), the problems that plague them would still be there and they wouldn't feel satisfied. They'd enable hardline governments who would enact cruelty and it wouldn't make them satisfied. People need to be mad about the cost of living, income inequality, landlords and corporations sucking up excess wealth far more than they should ever be worried about their local area having a few people born in different places in it.

This is why I say they are in a bubble and need to snap out of it, because their reality is shaped by the content they perceive and instinctual fears of the other - it's not reality. This is only affecting right-leaning people consuming copious amounts of political content and that may be a large number of pensioners and a good proportion of economically anxious people but it's quite far from a majority.

call me elitist, pretentious and out of touch all you want, it only fuels me further