In any gang there is the gobby leader and the rest are sheep, take out the leader and the sheep who want to look hard to impress him run a mile, I have always come across that in both child and adult gangs.

 

I still maintain that Conor should have used physical means to defend himself, think school is tough Conor wait till you reach adult life then it gets 10 times tougher, sorry mate not preaching to you but you gotta stand up for yourself, let 11 year old kids walk all over you is not a good thing

No, stooping to their level is not something i would do for a start, and if i did then i would be the one who was blamed because it never seems

to be the little brats that get done when they are the ones who cause it.

They have to study for themselves if they want to pass gcse's. Teachers can't do it for them. It's their own fault.

I'm not on about just morals, half the reason they do stuff like this is because they have no future, they have no incentive to work hard for anything, which in turn falls with the teachers, and many have been failed - I know at least 4 teenagers in my area who are unable to read or write. They have no mental problems whatsoever, they were just failed at a crucial point in life by both their parents and their teachers. As a result they have no future, no incentive to work hard for ANYTHING, they've been rejected from pretty much all the jobs available because they have no skills applicable in a job situation, they didn't get a single GCSE and had to drop out of secondary school because they just couldn't cope with it, they face a future filled with them just being yobs and leeching off society because they were failed completely.

 

No excuse for crime whatsoever, I was bought up in poverty, was bought up on a rough council estate where me and 2 siblings had 2 beds between us so had to rotate which involved at least 2 nights a week on a mattrass on the floor and I never once in a million years considered a life of crime, it did not occur to me and the reason why is because my parents despite our financial situation taught me moral values and the difference between right and wrong, no poverty whatsoever is an excuse for crime

 

Everyone has a future, read Alan Sugar's biography and see what conditions he was bought up in, read Perry McCarthy's biography etc etc etc, they had a tougher upbringing than the ones you are talking about but had the guts and drive to get out there and make something of their lives

No excuse for crime whatsoever, I was bought up in poverty, was bought up on a rough council estate where me and 2 siblings had 2 beds between us so had to rotate which involved at least 2 nights a week on a mattrass on the floor and I never once in a million years considered a life of crime, it did not occur to me and the reason why is because my parents despite our financial situation taught me moral values and the difference between right and wrong, no poverty whatsoever is an excuse for crime

 

Everyone has a future, read Alan Sugar's biography and see what conditions he was bought up in, read Perry McCarthy's biography etc etc etc, they had a tougher upbringing than the ones you are talking about but had the guts and drive to get out there and make something of their lives

I'm not saying it gives them an excuse, they've been told they have no future by society, and from there they conclude (presumably what the parents have taught them...) that crime is the only route left for them. It's another way that shows society has failed them that they even CONSIDER a life of crime in their position in the first place.

While we have a society that adores the Reality TV culture and rewards failure we are in a bad way.

 

On this particular situation European Court of Law's Child Protection Act of 1997 is to blame as it has become close to impossible for teachers to discipline children.

Is this a peculiarly British problem? I'd love to know whether other European countries are suffering from their own version of undereducated chavvy kids running about wild? If not, what are those countries doing that we're not? :unsure:

Is this a peculiarly British problem? I'd love to know whether other European countries are suffering from their own version of undereducated chavvy kids running about wild? If not, what are those countries doing that we're not? :unsure:

 

I think it is confined to us tbh

 

The country is in a moral decay with teenage drinking and under age sex rife and even considered to be cool, no other country has a culture where the young get as drunk as they can and then go on sprees of violence and puking in the streets which is a typical friday and saturday night here, I have been to France and Holland many times and never encountered what you encounter in this country

But why are we in moral decay and they aren't? :unsure:

But why are we in moral decay and they aren't? :unsure:

 

It is just the British psyche tbh, right the way through history Britain has a history of violence and fighting be it religious crusades, atrocities in the empire, in Africa, in Australia and god knows where else, fights and battles against the normans and the vikings and so on, Britain is a warrior/violent psyche and has been ever since it was formed

Nah. I don't buy that. There's something else.

It's a recent thing. The 'British psyche' (if there is such a beast) has always been there. It was there 30 years ago.

 

30 years ago we didn't have out of control chavs. :unsure:

Moral decay? That's a bit of an exaggeration! I do agree that some kids/teenagers have no respect at all, but no need to tar all people under 18 with the same brush. Bad things happen as they always have done, but we are more aware in our 24 hour media age.

 

I would be far more concerened if I lived in the USA at the moment.

It's a recent thing. The 'British psyche' (if there is such a beast) has always been there. It was there 30 years ago.

 

30 years ago we didn't have out of control chavs. :unsure:

 

Yeah but previous generations have had wars to get stuff out of their systems, the parents of the current generation and the current generation have not had wars to fight in so the aggression and violence in the British system has not had an outlet like in previous generations, the current wars are being fought out in pubs and in schools and in city centres as opposed to battlefields

Moral decay? That's a bit of an exaggeration! I do agree that some kids/teenagers have no respect at all, but no need to tar all people under 18 with the same brush. Bad things happen as they always have done, but we are more aware in our 24 hour media age.

 

I would be far more concerened if I lived in the USA at the moment.

 

I certainly wasn't suggesting that ALL teenagers and kids are out of control hooligans, I don't know how you can reach that conclusion from my post I certainly was not implying it, but I would say a significant minority of teenagers are out of control now, my guess would be 20-30% of all teenagers in this country, under age drinking and under age sex is out of control.

It was me. I said it was a Chav's paradise.

 

And it is. :arrr:

 

And I'll tell you something else, I'm totally sick of people apologising for these cretins and their equally cretinous parents. 'It's because they come from a deprived background' they say...

My bahookie. I grew up in poverty. My whole extended family grew up in poverty. Not one of us turned out like this good for nothing brain dead bunch of scum. As a society we have lost our way.

 

well said Jups. If there's a will there's a way. These days peeps always looking for excused to justify their behviour. Its sickening really.

 

I'm not on about just morals, half the reason they do stuff like this is because they have no future, they have no incentive to work hard for anything, which in turn falls with the teachers, and many have been failed - I know at least 4 teenagers in my area who are unable to read or write. They have no mental problems whatsoever, they were just failed at a crucial point in life by both their parents and their teachers.

 

Sorry, but that's rubbish. There's only so much any teacher can be expected to do before it turns totally futile to TRY and help these kids anymore. Both of my parents are teachers (so I'm possibly a little bit biased) but when you've had things shouted at you in the street and the windows of your car and house put out numerous times by the very people my parents have spent their lives trying to help, how inclined would you be to help? It's generalising of course, a lot of less-well-off kids turn out great as demonstrated by some examples in this topic, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the kids who don't get the support they need ("deserve"??) is their own fault ... or at least their parents for leading them by terrible example.

No Jester. Something is happening. It's not an exaggeration. I live in the same area I grew up in. I know the parents, I know the kids. I know when I was growing up I wouldn't have dared give up cheek to an adult. Today my 75 year old neighbour was telling me she has been getting terrorised by two 10 year old girls. They are throwing rubbish in her garden, making faces in at her window, shouting obscenities. She went to one of their parents last night and the mother told her to 'f*** off'.

 

This isn't isolated. I see it. It's not all the teenagers. But it's a lot of them. There are gangs of 20-30 kids roaming the streets every night absolutely blitzed out their brains on Buckfast. That wasn't there before. I grew up in this village. I had the exact same 'opportunities' as these kids today. What has changed? :unsure:

No Jester. Something is happening. It's not an exaggeration. I live in the same area I grew up in. I know the parents, I know the kids. I know when I was growing up I wouldn't have dared give up cheek to an adult. Today my 75 year old neighbour was telling me she has been getting terrorised by two 10 year old girls. They are throwing rubbish in her garden, making faces in at her window, shouting obscenities. She went to one of their parents last night and the mother told her to 'f*** off'.

 

This isn't isolated. I see it. It's not all the teenagers. But it's a lot of them. There are gangs of 20-30 kids roaming the streets every night absolutely blitzed out their brains on Buckfast. That wasn't there before. I grew up in this village. I had the exact same 'opportunities' as these kids today. What has changed? :unsure:

 

The blame is 100% with the parents, the kids should not be out after dark anyways any decent parent would make sure they are not out at night

 

I have a theory but I am not going to express it as it is exceptionally controversial and would alienate many good friends of mone on the board so just ignore this bit

No Jester. Something is happening. It's not an exaggeration. I live in the same area I grew up in. I know the parents, I know the kids. I know when I was growing up I wouldn't have dared give up cheek to an adult. Today my 75 year old neighbour was telling me she has been getting terrorised by two 10 year old girls. They are throwing rubbish in her garden, making faces in at her window, shouting obscenities. She went to one of their parents last night and the mother told her to 'f*** off'.

 

This isn't isolated. I see it. It's not all the teenagers. But it's a lot of them. There are gangs of 20-30 kids roaming the streets every night absolutely blitzed out their brains on Buckfast. That wasn't there before. I grew up in this village. I had the exact same 'opportunities' as these kids today. What has changed? :unsure:

Hmmm, I do agree that bad behaviour is more open than it was when I was a teenager, maybe the lack of repercussions does spur them on? I still see many decent younger people every day, perhaps the percentage of badly behaved kids is the same, but society is much more aware of the ones that aren't.

 

Or perhaps I am talking out of my arse, and things are way worse than I realise.

Sorry, but that's rubbish. There's only so much any teacher can be expected to do before it turns totally futile to TRY and help these kids anymore. Both of my parents are teachers (so I'm possibly a little bit biased) but when you've had things shouted at you in the street and the windows of your car and house put out numerous times by the very people my parents have spent their lives trying to help, how inclined would you be to help? It's generalising of course, a lot of less-well-off kids turn out great as demonstrated by some examples in this topic, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the kids who don't get the support they need ("deserve"??) is their own fault ... or at least their parents for leading them by terrible example.

I'm sure these children aren't braindead yobs at the point when they're supposed to be learning to read and write etc., because it seems to me that primary school is the main point at which they're being failed ;)