Two computer discs holding the personal details of all families in the UK with a child under 16 have gone missing.

The Child Benefit data on them includes name, address, date of birth, National Insurance number and, where relevant, bank details of 25m people.

 

Chancellor Alistair Darling said there was no evidence the data had fallen into criminal hands - but urged people to monitor their bank accounts.

 

The Conservatives described the incident as a "catastrophic" failure.

 

In an emergency statement to MPs, Mr Darling apologised for what he described as an "extremely serious failure on the part of HMRC to protect sensitive personal data entrusted to it in breach of its own guidelines".

 

MPs gasped as Mr Darling told them: "The missing information contains details of all Child Benefit recipients: records for 25 million individuals and 7.25 million families. "

 

The chancellor blamed mistakes by junior officials at HMRC, who he said had ignored security procedures when they sent information to the National Audit Office (NAO) for auditing.

 

Mr Darling told MPs: "Two password protected discs containing a full copy of HMRC's entire data in relation to the payment of child benefit was sent to the NAO, by HMRC's internal post system operated by the courier TNT.

 

The package was not recorded or registered. It appears the data has failed to reach the addressee in the NAO."

He added: "The police tell me that they have no reason to believe that this data has found its way into the wrong hands.

"The police are not aware of any evidence that it has been used for fraudulent purposes or criminal activity."

Fraud protection

 

The HMRC has set up a Child Benefit Helpline on 0845 302 1444 for customers who want more details.

The data was sent on 18 October and senior management at HMRC were told it was missing on 8 November and the chancellor on 10 November.

Mr Darling said banks were adamant that they wanted as much time to prepare for his announcement as possible.

He added: "If someone is the innocent victim of fraud as a result of this incident, people can be assured they have protection under the Banking Code so they will not suffer any financial loss as a result."

 

Mr Darling said people should monitor their accounts "for any unusual activity".

He said police were investigating the disappearance of the two discs. He also announced that the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), which monitors HMRC, was likely to investigate the incident.

 

It is the latest and by far the most serious of a string of missing data incidents at HM Revenue and Customs.

HMRC chairman Paul Gray resigned earlier after the latest incident came to light.

'Get a grip'

Shadow Chancellor George Osborne said: "Let us be clear about the scale of this catastrophic mistake - the names, the addresses and the dates of birth of every child in the country are sitting on two computer discs that are apparently lost in the post, and the bank account details and National Insurance numbers of 10 million parents, guardians and carers have gone missing.

"Half the country will be very anxious about the safety of their family and the security and the whole country will be wondering how on earth the government allowed this to happen."

 

He urged the government to "get a grip" and said it was the "final blow for the ambitions of this government to create a national ID database" as "they simply can not be trusted with people's personal information".

 

Liberal Democrat Acting Leader Vince Cable said it was now the Treasury and not the Home Office that was "not fit for purpose".

"Why does HMRC still use CDs for data transmission in this day and age? The ancient museum pieces it is currently using for computing must be replaced.

 

"After this disaster how can the public possibly have confidence in the vast centralised databases needed for the compulsory ID card scheme.

 

"Where does the buck stop after this catalogue of disasters?"

 

'Searching questions'

 

Giving his reaction, the Information Commissioner, Richard Thomas, said: "This is an extremely serious and disturbing security breach."

 

Mr Thomas welcomed the Chancellor's announcement of an independent review of the incident by Kieran Poynter of PricewaterhouseCoopers and said he would decide on further action once he has received the report.

"Searching questions need to be answered about systems, procedures and human error inside both HMRC and NAO," said Mr Thomas.

 

The prime minister's official spokeswoman said Gordon Brown has "full confidence" in Mr Darling. She added that Mr Darling has not offered to resign.

 

Source : BBC news

 

 

This is absolutely scandalous, if it ends up in the hands of criminals, then they will have your names, addresses and bank details.

The Northern Rock fiasco yesterday and now this :manson:

 

Thank god we only have 2 years left of these tossers

 

Its scary they may soon have our DNA too

The possible problem here is lots of people regularly use their children names as passwords, if you were a crook and knew people's bank details and their kids names you could get away with some serious cash.

and why on earth do they use TNT and why on earth was it unregistered. Absolutely beggars belief.

 

And another rant, why is the HMRC helpline number NOT a freephone number?

The Northern Rock fiasco yesterday and now this :manson:

 

Thank god we only have 2 years left of these tossers

 

Its scary they may soon have our DNA too

 

I don't think any minister had anything to do with it. It looks like some official within HMRC or TNT has blundered very badly.

 

As for Northern Rock, it wasn't this Government that passed the legislation allowing the bank to do what they did.

 

The possible problem here is lots of people regularly use their children names as passwords, if you were a crook and knew people's bank details and their kids names you could get away with some serious cash.

 

Sadly you're right. It doesn't matter how many times banks and other institutions warn against using obvious things like children's names, an awful lot of people still do it.

 

and why on earth do they use TNT and why on earth was it unregistered. Absolutely beggars belief.

 

And another rant, why is the HMRC helpline number NOT a freephone number?

 

There should really be two numbers. A freephone number and a geographical number. 08 numbers are not generally included in whatever free calls people get with their mobile phone deal and can be very expensive.

I don't think any minister had anything to do with it. It looks like some official within HMRC or TNT has blundered very badly.

 

exactly, it wasnt directly the government but private enterprise that buggered it up.

This is just plain terrible, the government is a complete mess. They shouldn't be sending things like that through the post anyway ><

But the HMRC is a Government department under the treasury, they are ultimately responsible

Excuse me?

 

They put the bank details for almost every family in the country on a disc and popped it in the post???

 

Family allowance department are a joke at the best of times but this even beats them asking me if I could prove my sons were my sons (as they were paying their "other mother" child benefit too!!)

 

 

 

Excuse me?

 

They put the bank details for almost every family in the country on a disc and popped it in the post???

 

Family allowance department are a joke at the best of times but this even beats them asking me if I could prove my sons were my sons (as they were paying their "other mother" child benefit too!!)

how the hell :blink:

 

they really are thick.

 

all i can say is labour shouldn't have been voted in in the first place

how the hell :blink:

 

they really are thick.

 

all i can say is labour shouldn't have been voted in in the first place

Leaving aside the prospect of that incompetent buffoon John Major being given another term in 1997, what did any minister do to cause this fiasco? Some prat within HMRC or TNT cocked up, not a minister. Yes, HMRC is a government department but you wouldn't expect a senior executive to resign if someone cocked up in a branch of Tesco's would you?

Edited November 20, 200717 yr by Suedehead2

how the hell :blink:

 

they really are thick.

 

all i can say is labour shouldn't have been voted in in the first place

Oops, double post

Edited November 20, 200717 yr by Suedehead2

ooh the irony of no snap election ^_^

in the post?...i heard on bbc breakfast that the disc was stolen from a car left out all night.

 

 

in the post?...i heard on bbc breakfast that the disc was stolen from a car left out all night.

 

No, I believe that was the previous time they lost people's details. :P A worker left a laptop in a car overnight and the laptop (with all the data) was stolen. This time the 2 CDs were posted from the Child Benefit Centre in Washington to the NAO in London (using the HMRCs courier service- operated by TNT). But the package never arrived at NAO. :rolleyes:

 

So either-

 

1) It was lost in the CHB Centre in Washington and was never put in the courier mail

2) It was lost by TNT and never delivered to the NAO

3) It was delivered to the NAO in London and lost by them

 

:wacko:

 

Brown apologises for records loss

 

Mr Brown said the government was not "complacent" about the losses

 

Brown apologises

Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said he "profoundly regrets" the loss of 25 million child benefit records.

 

He told MPs he apologised for the "inconvenience and worries" caused and said the government was working to prevent the data being used for fraud.

 

But Conservative leader David Cameron said the government had "failed in its first duty to protect the public".

 

The Revenue and Customs data on the two missing discs includes names, dates of birth, bank and address details.

 

'Mistakes'

 

During a heated prime minister's questions session, Mr Brown said: "I profoundly regret and apologise for the inconvenience and worries that have been caused to millions of families who receive child benefits.

 

"When mistakes happen in enforcing procedures, we have a duty to do everything we can to protect the public."

 

He also said that "the idea that we are complacent about this is quite ridiculous. We are taking all the action that is necessary."

 

Mr Brown added: "There is no excuse for not following proper procedures."

 

 

 

But Mr Cameron said people would "be angry that the government has failed in its first duty to protect the public."

 

He added: "What people want from their prime minister on a day like this is to show some broad shoulders, be the big man and accept some responsibility."

 

 

MISSING DATA INCLUDES

National insurance number

Name, address and birth date

Partner's details

Names, sex and age of children

Bank/savings account details

 

Mr Cameron said people were "desperately worried" and they would "find it frankly weird" that Mr Brown still wanted to go ahead with plans for a national ID cards scheme and register.

 

Earlier, the Tories questioned whether Alistair Darling was "up to the job" of chancellor.

 

Mr Darling said he "deeply regretted" what had happened, but stressed there was no evidence of misuse of the data.

 

He told the BBC his confidence had been "shaken" by what he described as a "catastrophic" incident, involving "serious breaches".

 

"People are entitled to trust the government to look after information that is given to it - for child benefit or any other purposes - and that did not happen here," said the chancellor.

 

 

He said the information "should never, ever have left the building in which it was stored".

 

Mr Darling denied the problem was related to the merger of the Revenue and Customs departments and staff cuts, as claimed by staff members in e-mails to the BBC.

 

He said banks were monitoring all 7.25 million bank accounts whose details were on the discs, which contained the personal details of all child benefit recipients in the UK.

 

Mr Darling said anyone who lost money as a result of any misuse of the data would be covered for losses under the banking code.

 

The entire child benefit database was sent via internal mail by a junior official from HMRC in Washington, Tyne and Wear, to the audit office in London via courier TNT on 18 October.

 

The chancellor said the civil servant had broken the rules by downloading the data to disc and sending it by unrecorded delivery.

 

Bosses at the Revenue were not told about what had happened until 8 November and Mr Darling and Mr Brown learned about the situation on 10 November.

 

The officials involved waited before informing their superiors in the hope that the discs would be found.

 

Mr Darling reassured those affected that police had no reason to believe they had got into the wrong hands.

 

People are being urged by both the chancellor and banks to keep a close eye on their accounts "for unusual activity".

 

The Metropolitan Police is leading the search for the discs, and the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which oversees the HMRC, is investigating the security breach.

 

Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs has set up a Child Benefit Helpline on 0845 302 1444 for customers who want more details.

 

LOST CDS - SEQUENCE OF EVENTS

18 October - Junior official from HMRC in Washington, Tyne and Wear, sends two CDs containing password-protected records to audit office in London through courier TNT, neither recorded nor registered

24 October - When package fails to arrive, second one is sent by registered post and arrives safely

3 November - Senior managers are told first package has been lost

10 November - Prime minister and other ministers are informed

12 November - HMRC tell ministers CDs will probably be found

14 November - When HMRC searches fail, Metropolitan Police are called in

15 November - Richard Thomas, Information Commissioner, says remedial action must be taken before public is informed

20 November - HMRC Chairman Paul Gray resigns; Chancellor Alistair Darling makes announcement to House of Commons

 

 

 

 

Story from BBC NEWS:

No, I believe that was the previous time they lost people's details. :P A worker left a laptop in a car overnight and the laptop (with all the data) was stolen.

<_< that was nationwide

 

i got a letter about that. next time i went in i checked my passbook for any withdrawals lol!

 

tbh, i think the blame lies firmly with the government. THEY should not have sent it unrecorded. actually the shouldn't have used any kind of mail at all.

 

lazy c**ts should have driven across and handed the disks over personally to reduce the risk of it getting into unauthorised hands

<_ that was nationwide>

 

tbh, i think the blame lies firmly with the government. THEY should not have sent it unrecorded. actually the shouldn't have used any kind of mail at all.

 

lazy c**ts should have driven across and handed the disks over personally to reduce the risk of it getting into unauthorised hands

 

"The government" - as in politicians - didn't send it. A civil servant did. How can you blame a minister when some pillock doesn't follow basic instructions?

The buck stops at the top Suedehead

 

If a football team does badly who is responsible ? the players of course, the manager doesn't personally put on a shirt and kick the ball in a match but who gets blamed and sacked by the chairman if the players slip up ? the manager of course

 

Darling is the manager, he might not have lost the package personally but the buck stops with him

exactly.

 

if the proper procedures aren't put in place to prevent c**k ups like this then the blame must be pointed at the highest possible point.

 

my Information Systems tutorial 2moz is on this lol :lol: we've 2 discuss what can be done/should have been done.

 

my lecturer changed the lecture and tutorial after this made the headlines