''See The Day'' didn't outpeak singles one and two, it peaked at #9 where ''Long Hot Summer'' and ''Biology'' peaked at #7 and #4 respectively, but then STD's release was a complete mess-up and clashed with Biology's release and the same with TLK and it's too-early promo. So I completely agree with you Phil :) , this will go top 10 but it just depends on if the promo slips up or not. Where everyone else has the unrealistic 'TLK only scraped top 10 so how on earth can Untouchable make top 10'. It's a completely different ball game, and as I've said a dozen times before singles these are not THAT predictable and neither is the music industry tbh, so basing Untouchable's to-be performance on TLK is totally the wrong concept. It all just depends on how much promo they do, how effective the promo is and the overall public response to the single - from which you can predict where it'll chart, top 3, 5, 10 or 15.

I meant I'll Stand By You. the charity cover thing they did. I get the two mixed up coz they are the ones i always heard at work.

 

The general trend however is Single 1 peaks the highest then your peaks get lower along with sales as you go through the album campaign. It is a proven fact there are of course exceptions. Fan Loons can help a song peak higher than i should, Hype can also pull a song up. Club and heavy radio support can help it (No Can Do - was projected to miss the top40 until the physical release) and it being an amazing song can also help it alot. (Just Dance and Pokerface both went 2 #1 in Australia)

 

The music industry has never been predictable and neither has the public. (crazy frog's #1 for example) but there is a general pattern/rule of thumb that says peaks get lower as album sales go up.

 

But yes, other factors can affect it, the 3rd and 4th single from Three out peaked the second on paper, but it was released in the xmas week which of course is a time of high sales and stupid xmas songs.

 

What other people are trying to say to you are. Yes it can happen, it could out peak TLK, BUT at the same time it is quite likely it won't because the album has sold very very well and based on the charts it doesnt happen very often. I wouldn't be surprised if it missed the top15 tbh as OOC has sold unusually well for a GA album, normaly i would say it was likely that it would outpeak given GA's history but the rest of the albums never sold this well, and big album sales always hamper single sales.

But in that case ''Untouchable'' is a slightly different story, the song's been radio mixed and now sounds vastly different to the original. The release would be like a brand new song altogether and not a album track turned single, would it not?

 

This is completely irrelevant because CSF radio edit was completely different to the album version and yet the radio edit never even made top 100 on itunes. The general norm is for the general music buying public to download the highest version of the song.

 

There will be a select few who download the edit, but not enough to make a huge impact. If you are counting on that to get the song top 10, you are going to be dissappointed.

 

And Phil is very right in what he says. As album sales go up, the single peaks get lower. Thats a general rule but there are exceptions.

 

When i think about it, take thats 2nd single had all the ingredients for top 10 - big fanbase, very good promo, number 1 radio airplay for 3 weeks and yet it missed top ten. 13 was it? So do you see why some people think GA's third single might miss top 10?

I reckon Untouchable will struggle to go Top 20, Top 30 even

 

I think they should have released something more fun - say Love Is The Key - this could have been a Top 5 track with a good video

 

I meant I'll Stand By You. the charity cover thing they did. I get the two mixed up coz they are the ones i always heard at work.

 

The general trend however is Single 1 peaks the highest then your peaks get lower along with sales as you go through the album campaign. It is a proven fact there are of course exceptions. Fan Loons can help a song peak higher than i should, Hype can also pull a song up. Club and heavy radio support can help it (No Can Do - was projected to miss the top40 until the physical release) and it being an amazing song can also help it alot. (Just Dance and Pokerface both went 2 #1 in Australia)

 

The music industry has never been predictable and neither has the public. (crazy frog's #1 for example) but there is a general pattern/rule of thumb that says peaks get lower as album sales go up.

 

But yes, other factors can affect it, the 3rd and 4th single from Three out peaked the second on paper, but it was released in the xmas week which of course is a time of high sales and stupid xmas songs.

 

What other people are trying to say to you are. Yes it can happen, it could out peak TLK, BUT at the same time it is quite likely it won't because the album has sold very very well and based on the charts it doesnt happen very often. I wouldn't be surprised if it missed the top15 tbh as OOC has sold unusually well for a GA album, normaly i would say it was likely that it would outpeak given GA's history but the rest of the albums never sold this well, and big album sales always hamper single sales.

Very true and well said. I just see 'Untouchable' is one of those unpredictable songs. Now that a stunning and almost redone radio mix has arisen I think that as well as the amount of promo and how hyped the public response is will be the deciding factors on to what extent the single will be successful or not. The points you and a few others have made on the album sales 's affect on the single sales is also very valid, but imo it easily does not apply when there is great promo, great public response, a great radio edit and a generally dull music period with no major releases come into play. It's these factors that I think the single needs to overcome or fall victim to and the same thing for 'Untouchable'. It could go either way or peak anywhere it just depends on the points that i've substantiated. As a GA fan, I too am worried it won't do as well especially after TLK but there really is more to predicting or supporting where it'll chart than just that and with keeping in mind the singles-albums sales comparison.

This is completely irrelevant because CSF radio edit was completely different to the album version and yet the radio edit never even made top 100 on itunes. The general norm is for the general music buying public to download the highest version of the song.

 

There will be a select few who download the edit, but not enough to make a huge impact. If you are counting on that to get the song top 10, you are going to be dissappointed.

 

And Phil is very right in what he says. As album sales go up, the single peaks get lower. Thats a general rule but there are exceptions.

 

When i think about it, take thats 2nd single had all the ingredients for top 10 - big fanbase, very good promo, number 1 radio airplay for 3 weeks and yet it missed top ten. 13 was it? So do you see why some people think GA's third single might miss top 10?

Yep, same point as Phil and very valid. And I do see your people's arguments, believe me i'm not deluded. You mentioned CSF, a 3rd single, again which made the top 10. I'm arguing because I get the impression everyone sees this as 25% chance of making the top 10, when I'd say it's more 75%. As far as single mixes/remixes are concerned, Kelly Rowland Work and Kylie The One. I'm just trying to encourage people to be more positive in the predictions rather than so one-sided and predictable. As well viewing every posters opinions from two angles before judging or arguing against them. With that said, I do feel 'Untouchable' is vunerable to missing the top 10 but not to the extent the majority of the posters have been emphasising in this thread.

Very true and well said. I just see 'Untouchable' is one of those unpredictable songs. Now that a stunning and almost redone radio mix has arisen I think that as well as the amount of promo and how hyped the public response is will be the deciding factors on to what extent the single will be successful or not. The points you and a few others have made on the album sales 's affect on the single sales is also very valid, but imo it easily does not apply when there is great promo, great public response, a great radio edit and a generally dull music period with no major releases come into play. It's these factors that I think the single needs to overcome or fall victim to and the same thing for 'Untouchable'. It could go either way or peak anywhere it just depends on the points that i've substantiated. As a GA fan, I too am worried it won't do as well especially after TLK but there really is more to predicting or supporting where it'll chart than just that and with keeping in mind the singles-albums sales comparison.

The thing is amazing promo won't help a song that is already on an album owned by over 600,000 people.

 

If 600k copies have been sold, allowing for fanloons with too much cash/no lives that still over 590k people who already have the single in question and are less inclined to then go out and buy the single.

 

Singles after the lead tend to be bought by fans for thier collections. You get some who didn't like the lead and will buy the second. that number is diminished by the third single as some buy the album after the second single and so on. If you watch an albums chart run you see it rise after each singles release date. A good example of an exception would be the Sugbabes 4th album and it's single. Singles 1 and 2 did very well and the album acted as it should but single 3 didn't peaking very high because it was fundamentally different. It was a radio edit like Untouchable is, which you can tell has been chopped and re-edited to make it radio friendly and very well too, but Red Dress had new vocals, pushing it's peak to 4 instead of lower top ten or top15 as it would have done had Mutya not left. With the re-release the album sold even more which higly hampered the 4th single. Which was a bit $h!t any way.

 

Untouchable isn't fundamentally different like Red Dress was. So that sales boost is unfortunatly missing, becasue many people don't go and hunt for a radio edit as they tend to be poorer shorter versions of the full song, hence why album edits end up at the top end of the iTunes charts and why the radio edits of later singles only ever peak lower.

 

I really hate to bring my girls into this again, but when About You Now was released it's radio edit initially topped the iTunes chart, but when the supperior album edit was released to iTunes 2weeks later long with the album it quickly climbed up and the radio edit started to drop just as quickly. Even months later it was the album edit that did all the climbing and charting as opposed to the single edit. It is a trend that you can notice quite easily in the iTunes thread. I only you AYN and the SB as it's the track that i watched it happen to so can actually provide evidence to back my claims.

 

I'm glad we've broken through the outer loon here, for a more thought out and considered responce, and i do agree, the promo could help it massively but it isn't something to pin hopes on. The best evidence of working promo will be a jump in position after each performance. Something No Can Do didn't really acheive.

Yep, same point as Phil and very valid. And I do see your people's arguments, believe me i'm not deluded. You mentioned CSF, a 3rd single, again which made the top 10. I'm arguing because I get the impression everyone sees this as 25% chance of making the top 10, when I'd say it's more 75%. As far as single mixes/remixes are concerned, Kelly Rowland Work and Kylie The One. I'm just trying to encourage people to be more positive in the predictions rather than so one-sided and predictable. As well viewing every posters opinions from two angles before judging or arguing against them. With that said, I do feel 'Untouchable' is vunerable to missing the top 10 but not to the extent the majority of the posters have been emphasising in this thread.

They were vastly different mixes tho, same with Beautiful Liar.

 

Those three differentiated from thier album components quite a bit, not like a radio edit would. Which is bascially cutting a few lines and instrumentals and maybe remixing the backing track slightly for a song that has been cut a lot to create something that flows better.

 

Those three were remixes esentially.

I reckon Untouchable will struggle to go Top 20, Top 30 even

 

I think they should have released something more fun - say Love Is The Key - this could have been a Top 5 track with a good video

 

 

Are you kidding???? That would have flopped beyond belief!!

Whilst I agree about the whole promotion thing not really helping a song on an album owned by so many people, I do believe that the radio edit is so different it will appeal to more people than just an average 3rd single off an album would.

 

I'm not worried about its performance on itunes after DOI yet, I'm gonna hold out until the radio edit :wub: is available. :)

Are you kidding???? That would have flopped beyond belief!!

 

Disagree.

 

Think its a fab song and the remix version used on the party ad sounded amazing.

 

I'd have loved to have it as 3rd single :)

The thing is amazing promo won't help a song that is already on an album owned by over 600,000 people.

 

If 600k copies have been sold, allowing for fanloons with too much cash/no lives that still over 590k people who already have the single in question and are less inclined to then go out and buy the single.

 

Singles after the lead tend to be bought by fans for thier collections. You get some who didn't like the lead and will buy the second. that number is diminished by the third single as some buy the album after the second single and so on. If you watch an albums chart run you see it rise after each singles release date. A good example of an exception would be the Sugbabes 4th album and it's single. Singles 1 and 2 did very well and the album acted as it should but single 3 didn't peaking very high because it was fundamentally different. It was a radio edit like Untouchable is, which you can tell has been chopped and re-edited to make it radio friendly and very well too, but Red Dress had new vocals, pushing it's peak to 4 instead of lower top ten or top15 as it would have done had Mutya not left. With the re-release the album sold even more which higly hampered the 4th single. Which was a bit $h!t any way.

 

Untouchable isn't fundamentally different like Red Dress was. So that sales boost is unfortunatly missing, becasue many people don't go and hunt for a radio edit as they tend to be poorer shorter versions of the full song, hence why album edits end up at the top end of the iTunes charts and why the radio edits of later singles only ever peak lower.

 

I really hate to bring my girls into this again, but when About You Now was released it's radio edit initially topped the iTunes chart, but when the supperior album edit was released to iTunes 2weeks later long with the album it quickly climbed up and the radio edit started to drop just as quickly. Even months later it was the album edit that did all the climbing and charting as opposed to the single edit. It is a trend that you can notice quite easily in the iTunes thread. I only you AYN and the SB as it's the track that i watched it happen to so can actually provide evidence to back my claims.

 

I'm glad we've broken through the outer loon here, for a more thought out and considered responce, and i do agree, the promo could help it massively but it isn't something to pin hopes on. The best evidence of working promo will be a jump in position after each performance. Something No Can Do didn't really acheive.

Good point again. But there are the likes of Rihanna, Kings Of Leon, Leona Lewis - all with immense albums sales and then ALL their singles selling just as immensely well as the album. Also, if you look at singles and albums longevity in the charts, you'd pick up on average a song stays 15 weeks in the top 75 which shows you there are a large number of people out there who buy the singles/buy/hear about them late/buy the singles only as aposed to the albums. So there are generally a lot of exceptions for everything/the points you mention. And imo Untouchable can't just yet be grouped into those gap 3rd singles from a major selling album, it's got much more to it than say the other non top 10 3rd singles. I just see predicting not top 10 as a shortcut to making sure your prediction ends up correct but there are so many exceptions despite the high-selling album and it being a 3rd single. It REALLY could go either way, and I just lean to the top 10 direction because it is GA and it is a brilliant song and GA are likely to pull out all the stops for the release, I'm pretty positive their record label and the girls themselves are aware of the very likely fate of the single and therefore will do what they do best and maintain that consecutive top 10 streak through whatever manner they approach it with, all in all making the single release even more exciting knowing it will just get harder and harder for GA to get their top 10s

Rihanna/KoL/Leona followed no rules when it came to the charts.

 

Although Rihanna was no doubt helped by the 1.9billion deluxe editions.

 

Leona - $h!t Factor

 

and f*** only knows for KoL

Rihanna/KoL/Leona followed no rules when it came to the charts.

 

Although Rihanna was no doubt helped by the 1.9billion deluxe editions.

 

Leona - $h!t Factor

 

and f*** only knows for KoL

KoL's third single has flopped though :teresa:

 

Excellent well thought out posts, btw :D

KoL's third single has flopped though :teresa:

 

Excellent well thought out posts, btw :D

It has? :o

 

Good, it's nowhere as good as the other two and annoyingly it's everywhere across here.

 

and thank you. :D

Rihanna/KoL/Leona followed no rules when it came to the charts.

 

Although Rihanna was no doubt helped by the 1.9billion deluxe editions.

 

Leona - $h!t Factor

 

and f*** only knows for KoL

They bucked the trend because they've been huge worldwide successes. Can't be said for Girls Aloud can it...

 

I actually think this song could go anywhere. I hope it goes top 10 and it wouldn't surprise me if it did. However at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if it needed the physical to make the top 40...

I think this song will peak at #8, as it's the only position in the top 10 the Girls have yet to peak at :)

They bucked the trend because they've been huge worldwide successes. Can't be said for Girls Aloud can it...

 

I actually think this song could go anywhere. I hope it goes top 10 and it wouldn't surprise me if it did. However at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if it needed the physical to make the top 40...

If they release a fourth single i think it would do quite badly because people are starting to become fed up with the constant overplaying of KoL.

 

If it doesn't really have much impact on the iTunes top 40, then it may do a No Can Do and miss the top 20 :cry: Now that was a tragedy.

Thing with KOL third single was that Revelry is rubbish and they should have chosen Closer.

You've probably got a point, I love it personally but it doesn't have the mass appeal of the first two.

Rihanna/KoL/Leona followed no rules when it came to the charts.

 

imo They do - they are basically still relatively new artists wrt huge mainstream success UNLIKE GA. KoL may not be new per se but they have never experienced mainstream success to this level with this album + its singles.

 

The further into a mainstream 'pop' career familiarity breeds not contempt but rather apathy/indifference (with an increasing number of people over time). When something is new to people/a fresh experience generally it has a bigger potential audience/pool of people that can be drawn to it - a major reason why (mainstream) pop careers become increasingly difficult to maintain (especially with the amount of competition/choice around in the present era), even if the musically quality remains constant or returns. IMO the rare as hens teeth Pop(as opposed to Rock) star careers i can think of that have lasted decades for at least 1 reason is they have tried to deal with the familarity (causing apathy) to some extent with (relatively) huge/frequent changes in image,sound etc - however even though the charts had a different nature decades ago they have never again achieved the success of their early years (of mainstream success) when despite huge albums sales a (post album ) 3rd , 4th singles would still be a huge seller sometimes even the final single release could be bigger (sales and/or position) than previous single(s) from the parent album.