Well, the recession IS the fault of The City (ie, the London fat cats..), Wall Street, Westminster and the FSA... Edinburgh has had very, very little to do with it.... Salmond and Swinney certainly had no real power to hrein in the likes of Goodwin and Pell (er, that would be the FSA's responsibility, one which they failed to live up to...), and even LESS influence to rein in Appelgarth at the Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley (both of wom also lost BILLIONS Richard, which you seem to convieniently forget, the Northern Rock had to be NATIONALISED FFS, so how much is that costing the English taxpayer you prat... :rolleyes: )..... This banking crisis had its origins in America and swept over here like a fukkin' Tsunami because we were so far up the arses of Corporate American neo-conservatism and thought that things like sub-prime mortgages and Collateralised Debt Obligations (dreamt up by the YANKS) were a fukkin' wonderful idea..... <_<

 

Just what the hell do you expect the SNP, who only have relatively limited, DEVOLVED powers, to actually do about this....? The banking Industry was supposed to be regulated by the FSA, headquarters in ENGLAND (and, er, the Bank of ENGLAND before it..), and the Exchequer, headquarters in ENGLAND......

 

And Richard, you should remember that for years during the tory admin, it was SCOTTISH north sea oil and gas which funded Tax breaks for rich c/unts in the south of ENGLAND.....

 

It's all very well to call Salmond a "moronic fool", and he's guilty of many things, but at the end of the day, neither he nor the SNP are in any way culpable for what has transpired with the banks, because they had no power to intervene.... Again, that would be the CHANCELLOR and the FSA who would actually have these powers......

I'm not Richard, i'm Phil :P

 

I'm quite aware of who's to blame for the difficulties we are currently going through. What i'm getting at, is that the slimy little f***er is going to use this to claw his way into getting more power when the recession was basically unavoidable because of Northern Rock, RBS and the likes being so far up the yanks arse. Of course more should have been done by the so called FSA to prevent this. You're preaching to the choir on the banking issues.

 

I never said i expected the SNP to do anything about our banking issues. In fact i never said much about our banking issues other than it was our banks that landed us in a big mess. RBS losing £20billion and HBOS becoming worthless overnight and being forced into a stupid merger with that vile Llyods all at the taxpayers expense. What i said that if they were to get their precious independence and full ownership of the banks that we would be in serious financial trouble as a country. I honestly do not think our banks would survive without the large cash pools of the BOE. The money they'll need to get them back to a point where they will make money is more than what can be afforded by a country with 6million people.

 

Perhaps i wasn't quite clear in the way i put my points across.

 

I'm know just how tiny the Scottish Executives powers are, and i'm quite happy for them to get more control, but not with Salmond at the helm of the ship. If you've not already guessed, i pretty much hate everything he and his party stands for.

 

I'm too young to remember Thatcher and Major. I only just remember the '97 election and Labour getting in, i'm only 19. Although i think the money from the Oil should go nowhere near Westminster. It's all in Scottish waters.

 

 

I'll try to put what i was trying to say across again.

 

I believe that Slimy Salmond is going to try to use what has been happening to the whole country as a underhanded way of getting more seats. Fair do's most of the blame lies with the Americans and the FSA/Banks but Salmond was calling for HBOS to be nationalised and given to Holyrood instead of being forced into that merger, something he's going to have some fun with i'm sure. The two largest Scottish banks in English control, when the public don't want them to be controlled by Westminster is Salmonds idea of a wet dream. The last thing we need is to go about breaking up the union into little bits. We should be concentrating on working together to haul the union out of this mess and back into the black. Something that really can't be achieved with Salmond mincing about opening silly little buildings and trying to destroy the Scottish public's last remaining shred of trust in the Westminster Government for his own political gains. Before i left for my trip to Aus, he was more concerned with getting a Scottish team at the Olympics and a Scottish place at Eurovision than coming up with solutions to the very serious situation we are in. If we were to go it alone, without any form of plans then we'd sink very quickly. I could be way off the mark here, i'm pretty out of the loop with Salmonds latest escapades.

I'm not Richard, i'm Phil :P

 

I'm quite aware of who's to blame for the difficulties we are currently going through. What i'm getting at, is that the slimy little f***er is going to use this to claw his way into getting more power when the recession was basically unavoidable because of Northern Rock, RBS and the likes being so far up the yanks arse. Of course more should have been done by the so called FSA to prevent this. You're preaching to the choir on the banking issues.

 

I never said i expected the SNP to do anything about our banking issues. In fact i never said much about our banking issues other than it was our banks that landed us in a big mess. RBS losing £20billion and HBOS becoming worthless overnight and being forced into a stupid merger with that vile Llyods all at the taxpayers expense. What i said that if they were to get their precious independence and full ownership of the banks that we would be in serious financial trouble as a country. I honestly do not think our banks would survive without the large cash pools of the BOE. The money they'll need to get them back to a point where they will make money is more than what can be afforded by a country with 6million people.

 

Perhaps i wasn't quite clear in the way i put my points across.

 

I'm know just how tiny the Scottish Executives powers are, and i'm quite happy for them to get more control, but not with Salmond at the helm of the ship. If you've not already guessed, i pretty much hate everything he and his party stands for.

 

I'm too young to remember Thatcher and Major. I only just remember the '97 election and Labour getting in, i'm only 19. Although i think the money from the Oil should go nowhere near Westminster. It's all in Scottish waters.

I'll try to put what i was trying to say across again.

 

I believe that Slimy Salmond is going to try to use what has been happening to the whole country as a underhanded way of getting more seats. Fair do's most of the blame lies with the Americans and the FSA/Banks but Salmond was calling for HBOS to be nationalised and given to Holyrood instead of being forced into that merger, something he's going to have some fun with i'm sure. The two largest Scottish banks in English control, when the public don't want them to be controlled by Westminster is Salmonds idea of a wet dream. The last thing we need is to go about breaking up the union into little bits. We should be concentrating on working together to haul the union out of this mess and back into the black. Something that really can't be achieved with Salmond mincing about opening silly little buildings and trying to destroy the Scottish public's last remaining shred of trust in the Westminster Government for his own political gains. Before i left for my trip to Aus, he was more concerned with getting a Scottish team at the Olympics and a Scottish place at Eurovision than coming up with solutions to the very serious situation we are in. If we were to go it alone, without any form of plans then we'd sink very quickly. I could be way off the mark here, i'm pretty out of the loop with Salmonds latest escapades.

 

Sorry, I was actually both replying to your points and to Thisispop's (Richard) about the whole "english taxpayer" issue.... Prob should've been a bit clearer on that....

 

Salmond may be an opportunist, but let's face it, Nu Labor have given him and the SNP plenty OF opportunity to get in there and rip the pish out of them, there is no way that in Scotland, which in '97 was pretty much dyed-in-the-wool Labour, (I voted Labour in '97) that there should've been an opportunity for SNP to come in and pull the rug out from under the Labour party in the way they have, but Nu Labor has damaged its own cause with their betrayal of the Scottish working classes, hell mend them, Wendy Alexander's tenure as Scottish first minister was an unmitigated disaster, she basically "called out" Salmond and the SNP with her ill-advised "bring it on" comments, and that pretty much signed her own death warrant.... Still, they've pretty much betrayed every working class person, not just the Scots.... While I agree that there should be no independence without a proper plan (and at the moment certainly, it would be utter disaster for Scotland to go for independence), but some day, it will happen, the Scots feel now, that they have been betrayed now by the two main parties, so I can honestly see Scottish independence proper some time over the next decade or so.... And it should be at least a decade before it's voted on, given the current problems....

 

And, frankly, I agree with him that the banks should've been nationalised anyway, whether RBS or HBOS should be put into the control of Edinburgh or Westminster is a matter for debate.... I think the only way to prevent this sort of catastrophe from ever happening again is to have nationalised High Street banks/building societies which operated apart from the Corporate banking system purely to benefit the customer, and not the fat cat bosses.... There is no way in hell that the things that affect the City and the markers should adversely affect the High Street and people's mortgages and savings.... Corporate banking should be separated from High Street banking and never the twain should meet imo.... I couldn't give two sh!ts if something like Barings goes under, or if some Corporate bankers go under, they play the game and take the risks and they're aware of the risks they take; but when you talk about the High Street, then, nah, that's just wrong, ordinary people should NEVER be put under the same risks as those who choose to play the markets, because ordinary bank customers never made that choice or gave the go-ahead to their banks to take the kind of risks they did, in fact, the vast majority of bank and building society customers were totally unaware of the fact that the likes of RBS, Northern Rock, HBOS, etc, WERE even taking risks of this magnitude, and that is simply wrong, imo.....

 

Did anyone watch How To Rob A Bank? on BBC3 last night?

 

I found it quite interesting and it really did show what an utter bunch of morons run and work in our banks. Halifax giving out a £1000 student overdraft to someone who already had THREE student bank accounts (you're only supposed to have one) on the day they almost went to the wall! :manson:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00fv..._to_Rob_a_Bank/

Edited June 5, 200916 yr by RabbitFurCoat

When the Tories get in they'll say something like 'well it will take five years to sort the mess out that the previous government has made'. Ignoring the fact that it was their frigging bitch-troll-from-hell Thatcher that helped put the country in the $h!t it is in in the early 80's. Oh in the words from one of the characters in Brassed Off 'how come John Lennon is dead and she still lives?' I hate speaking ill of an old woman ... but I truly despise that old woman!

 

Norma

You got to admit you have to be certified as a nutter to run the country. I bet Mickey Mouse will do a better job.

 

.........or crazy chris! :lol:

When the Tories get in they'll say something like 'well it will take five years to sort the mess out that the previous government has made'. Ignoring the fact that it was their frigging bitch-troll-from-hell Thatcher that helped put the country in the $h!t it is in in the early 80's. Oh in the words from one of the characters in Brassed Off 'how come John Lennon is dead and she still lives?' I hate speaking ill of an old woman ... but I truly despise that old woman!

 

Norma

 

Its time everyone moved on in terms of Maggie hating, she has been out of power 20 years and 3 prime ministers since then have had the chance to reverse any policies of hers and put up their own agenda

 

 

Its time everyone moved on in terms of Maggie hating, she has been out of power 20 years and 3 prime ministers since then have had the chance to reverse any policies of hers and put up their own agenda

 

Yes but she was still a bitch! :lol:

 

You've not been doing the quiz lately BA! Why?

 

Norma

Edited June 5, 200916 yr by Norma_Snockers

Sorry, I was actually both replying to your points and to Thisispop's (Richard) about the whole "english taxpayer" issue.... Prob should've been a bit clearer on that....

 

Salmond may be an opportunist, but let's face it, Nu Labor have given him and the SNP plenty OF opportunity to get in there and rip the pish out of them, there is no way that in Scotland, which in '97 was pretty much dyed-in-the-wool Labour, (I voted Labour in '97) that there should've been an opportunity for SNP to come in and pull the rug out from under the Labour party in the way they have, but Nu Labor has damaged its own cause with their betrayal of the Scottish working classes, hell mend them, Wendy Alexander's tenure as Scottish first minister was an unmitigated disaster, she basically "called out" Salmond and the SNP with her ill-advised "bring it on" comments, and that pretty much signed her own death warrant.... Still, they've pretty much betrayed every working class person, not just the Scots.... While I agree that there should be no independence without a proper plan (and at the moment certainly, it would be utter disaster for Scotland to go for independence), but some day, it will happen, the Scots feel now, that they have been betrayed now by the two main parties, so I can honestly see Scottish independence proper some time over the next decade or so.... And it should be at least a decade before it's voted on, given the current problems....

 

And, frankly, I agree with him that the banks should've been nationalised anyway, whether RBS or HBOS should be put into the control of Edinburgh or Westminster is a matter for debate.... I think the only way to prevent this sort of catastrophe from ever happening again is to have nationalised High Street banks/building societies which operated apart from the Corporate banking system purely to benefit the customer, and not the fat cat bosses.... There is no way in hell that the things that affect the City and the markers should adversely affect the High Street and people's mortgages and savings.... Corporate banking should be separated from High Street banking and never the twain should meet imo.... I couldn't give two sh!ts if something like Barings goes under, or if some Corporate bankers go under, they play the game and take the risks and they're aware of the risks they take; but when you talk about the High Street, then, nah, that's just wrong, ordinary people should NEVER be put under the same risks as those who choose to play the markets, because ordinary bank customers never made that choice or gave the go-ahead to their banks to take the kind of risks they did, in fact, the vast majority of bank and building society customers were totally unaware of the fact that the likes of RBS, Northern Rock, HBOS, etc, WERE even taking risks of this magnitude, and that is simply wrong, imo.....

Northern Rock was a bank, not a Building Society. It was its conversion to a bank that led to its eventual collapse.

Its time everyone moved on in terms of Maggie hating, she has been out of power 20 years and 3 prime ministers since then have had the chance to reverse any policies of hers and put up their own agenda

 

if only it was that easy.... we are still living with her legacy...

I'm no Conservative, but I have to say it really annoys me when people use what the Tories did years and years ago as a reason to not vote for them now. My parents (die-hard Labour supporters) are always going "you don't know what it was like with the Tories in charge", but by that logic, surely I can use all the strikes during the Labour government in the late 70s as a reason not to vote for them now? Except that would be ridiculous, just as using Thatcher/Major as a reason not to vote for the Tories now is.

 

Anyway, the Labour Party are really p***ing me off even more now. All their MPs really need to make their mind up NOW, either back Brown or get someone else in place and get on with running the country - or even better, call an election. Eitherway, stop dithering and make your minds up.

I'm no Conservative, but I have to say it really annoys me when people use what the Tories did years and years ago as a reason to not vote for them now. My parents (die-hard Labour supporters) are always going "you don't know what it was like with the Tories in charge", but by that logic, surely I can use all the strikes during the Labour government in the late 70s as a reason not to vote for them now? Except that would be ridiculous, just as using Thatcher/Major as a reason not to vote for the Tories now is.

 

Anyway, the Labour Party are really p***ing me off even more now. All their MPs really need to make their mind up NOW, either back Brown or get someone else in place and get on with running the country - or even better, call an election. Eitherway, stop dithering and make your minds up.

But they don't seem to have changed much especially with Cameron being in charge who basically idolises her -_- I didn't live during those times but I certainly see her legacy still here now particularly in the north.

But they don't seem to have changed much especially with Cameron being in charge who basically idolises her -_- I didn't live during those times but I certainly see her legacy still here now particularly in the north.

 

I did - she was a monster then ... now she's just an old monster!

 

If you are the kind of person who will never need the NHS, never need the Welfare System (and lets face it even the most industrious and hard-working of people can fall out of work through no fault of their own), never need help of any sort - then the Tory Party are the party to vote for because in a few terms with them at the helm will see the NHS and other services gone for good. I don't know - maybe people think that may be for the best - survival of the fittest and all that!

 

Norma

LOL, funny you should mention that Norma! :lol: I remember Craig saying a few weeks ago something along the lines of benefits not being good as life was about survival of the fittest :rofl:

Well it appears Brown will not go no matter what, and the press conference sounded so promising from his 'I have to accept responsibility'.

 

He is going to cling on until next year's General no matter who attacks him, or what unravels in the months ahead.

I think everyone must surely agree, regardless of personal leanings, it's really bad for this government to refuse to hold an election. They are down to like 20% in opinion polls - 20% of at most 70% of the country (that's as high as turnout in general elections ever gets). That means they are supported by around 13% of people in this country. They have less support than any other "democratic" govt in British history.

Yes but she was still a bitch! :lol:

 

You've not been doing the quiz lately BA! Why?

 

Norma

 

I missed 2 days through circumstances beyond my control so I decided I would not make up the ground to be competitive so I decided to skip June lol and give it a go again in July

But they don't seem to have changed much especially with Cameron being in charge who basically idolises her -_- I didn't live during those times but I certainly see her legacy still here now particularly in the north.

 

Cameron anything buty idolises her, quite the oppsite, he is on the left wing of the party, much more in tune with B-liar and co than is with Maggie

I think everyone must surely agree, regardless of personal leanings, it's really bad for this government to refuse to hold an election. They are down to like 20% in opinion polls - 20% of at most 70% of the country (that's as high as turnout in general elections ever gets). That means they are supported by around 13% of people in this country. They have less support than any other "democratic" govt in British history.

 

Exactly

 

The nation has overwhelmingly decided last night that they want the tories back in power and Brown should call a general election and have a dignified succession

Cameron anything buty idolises her, quite the oppsite, he is on the left wing of the party, much more in tune with B-liar and co than is with Maggie

 

Yeah! He says that now while he's knocking on the door! Once he's closed the door behind him and changed the locks ... you watch ... Mrs T will be the first person who is invited around for 'tea and advice'. If the old bag is still alive.

 

By the way ... if I seem to bang on so much about Mrs T it is because for a female Prime Minister this awful old crone did less for women than any male leader before or since in recent history. There are actually one or two Conservative ministers past and present that I have and do admire but on the whole I'd rather take out my own appendix with a rusty tin opener than vote for them.

 

And BA - I'd still have a go at the quiz even if its to keep your hand in! I missed three days in May and still ended up third! You never know ... you may get to know those US Sports questions by rote! :lol:

 

Norma

Edited June 5, 200916 yr by Norma_Snockers

Exactly

 

The nation has overwhelmingly decided last night that they want the tories back in power and Brown should call a general election and have a dignified succession

38% of the vote is not "overwhelming".