US church defiant despite condemnation of Koran burning

Source - BBC News

 

Terry Jones said he had prayed over the matter but insisted the Koran-burning would go ahead

 

A small US church says it will defy international condemnation and go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Koran on the 9/11 anniversary.

 

The top US commander in Afghanistan warned troops' lives would be in danger if the Dove World Outreach Center in Florida went ahead.

 

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the church's plan was "disrespectful and disgraceful".

 

Muslim countries and Nato have also hit out at the move.

 

And the US Attorney General, Eric Holder, called the idea "idiotic and dangerous".

 

But organiser, Pastor Terry Jones said: "We must send a clear message to the radical element of Islam."

 

The controversy comes at a time when the US relationship with Islam is very much under scrutiny.

 

There is heated debate in the country over a proposal to build a mosque and Islamic cultural centre streets from Ground Zero, site of the 9/11 attacks, in New York.

 

Speaking at a State Department dinner marking the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, Hillary Clinton condemned Pastor Jones.

 

"I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths," she said.

 

Despite having a congregation of just 50, the plans of Pastor Jones' church in Gainesville have gained worldwide notoriety, sparking demonstrations in Afghanistan and Indonesia.

 

Gen David Petraeus, the top US commander in Afghanistan, said on Monday that the action could cause problems "not just in Kabul, but everywhere in the world".

 

"It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems," he said in a statement.

 

The Vatican, the Obama administration and Nato have also expressed concern over the plan.

 

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Tuesday that "any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern".

 

Pastor Jones - author of a book entitled Islam is of the Devil - has said he understands the general's concerns but that it was "time for America to quit apologising for our actions and bowing to kings".

 

Another pastor at the church told the BBC that members intended to burn several hundred copies of the holy book on Saturday evening, the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, in defiance of an order by the city not to hold an open air bonfire.

 

Muslims consider the Koran to be the word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect to the holy book is deeply offensive to them.

 

An interfaith group of evangelical, Roman Catholic, Jewish, and Muslim leaders meeting in Washington on Tuesday condemned the proposals as a violation of American values and the Bible.

 

Religious leaders have issued a statement condemning the church's actions

 

"I have heard many Muslim Americans say they have never felt this anxious or this insecure in America since directly after 11 September," said Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America.

 

Claims that US soldiers have desecrated the Koran in both Afghanistan and Iraq have caused bloodshed in the past.

 

There were deadly protests in Afghanistan in 2008, when it emerged that a US soldier deployed to Iraq riddled a copy of the holy book with bullets.

 

And further lives were lost in Afghan riots in 2005 when Newsweek magazine printed a story alleging that US interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet.

 

The story later turned out to be false and was retracted by the magazine.

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Right, let's just play Devil's Advocate here for a moment.... If this guy goes ahead with his plan, as far as I'm concerned it's perfectly acceptable for a random Mosque somewhere in London or New York to have a Bible-burning party on the anniversary of the Iraq war.... Fair enough....? Oh, and we can shove a few copies of B-Liar's biography on the bonfire as well... So, who's up for it...? We can have a cook-out, I'll bring the marshmallows and chicken wings.....

 

Now, let's get serious folks - the burning of a book. ANY book, no matter how we might object to it is totally reductive... How can you criticise, question or enter into a discourse about the merits or demerits of an argument of a book if you burn it? How can you discredit it with reasoned argument if you burn it? You cant, you just lost the argument when you do something as stupid and idiotic as that... This stupid little Pastor is in good company - Hitler, Stalin, Senator McCarthy.... Yeah, nice one....

 

Secondly, it's all very well for him and his collection of 50 inbred, six-toed r*t**** to live safe in their nice, safe middle-American homes plucking their banjos and chewing t'bacca, not for them the repercussions of their utter stupidity, THEY wont have to deal with the IEDs or the riots on the streets of Kabul and Kandahar, nahhh, it's gonna be US and BRITISH soldiers that have to deal with the fall-out, and every one that comes back in a body-bag on the back of this powder-keg situation is gonna be on "Pastor" Terry Jones....

 

I'm an Atheist, and even I can see that it's idiotic and ultimately self-defeating to burn the Koran or the Bible, heck even the OTHER Terry Jones (of Monty Python's "Life or Brian" fame) wouldn't be so ignorant and stupid.. And this is supposedly a "holy" man.....

 

 

JESUS.

 

This has to be one of the most stupid and counter-productive things I've ever heard.

 

Have they actually considered WHY radical elements like the Taliban or Al Qaeda have been able to gather so much support, and WHY they've felt the need and been able to carry atrocities like 9/11?

 

In part, yes it's because they're radical and want to convert the world blah-blah-blah, but it's also because of the perception that the West wants to infringe upon the Moslem religion and their culture. The Israel/Palestinian conflict, the US and the UK invading Iraq and Afghanistan...it's all worsened the situation, and Christian churches in America running around burning Korans (the ultimate insult to the Moslem religion) is in that category aswell. Needlessly exacerbating an already volatile situation, and also reinforcing the Moslem/West divide, that if anything needs to be eradicated. Insulting a WHOLE RELIGION of millions, just to get at a few. It's the same narrow-minded attitude that Craig has to the Palestinians - "...they're all the same!".

Absolute MORONS.

 

I hope they remember their actions next time they hear about "their boys" being blown to bits by a pissed-off extremist. No-one is going to claim that the extremists are right, but Jesus, talk about fanning the flames...

 

 

And I also agree with Grimly's point - how can you seriously argue against something when you resort to such a puerile and medieval tactic like book-burning? It doesn't display superiority, it shows nothing ignorance and disrespect.

 

 

 

I'm glad to see they're being jumped on by everyone though - there is some hope!

I wish religion was banned

In part, yes it's because they're radical and want to convert the world blah-blah-blah, but it's also because of the perception that the West wants to infringe upon the Moslem religion and their culture. The Israel/Palestinian conflict, the US and the UK invading Iraq and Afghanistan...it's all worsened the situation, and Christian churches in America running around burning Korans (the ultimate insult to the Moslem religion) is in that category aswell. Needlessly exacerbating an already volatile situation, and also reinforcing the Moslem/West divide, that if anything needs to be eradicated. Insulting a WHOLE RELIGION of millions, just to get at a few. It's the same narrow-minded attitude that Craig has to the Palestinians - "...they're all the same!".

Absolute MORONS.

 

Exactly - even if they're so stupid that they think all Muslims are evil, how can they not realise that THEY will eventually suffer if they go ahead with this? How can they not realise actions like this only antagonise Islamic extremists further? If this does go ahead, the probability of a terrorist attack on American soil within the next year will probably increase by about 10 times...

 

Any bets on how long it takes for Sarah Palin and the other "Tea Party" nutcases to announce their support of this? :puke2:

Exactly - even if they're so stupid that they think all Muslims are evil, how can they not realise that THEY will eventually suffer if they go ahead with this? How can they not realise actions like this only antagonise Islamic extremists further? If this does go ahead, the probability of a terrorist attack on American soil within the next year will probably increase by about 10 times...

 

The sad thing is, if this does happen, I've no doubt these morons won't even entertain for a second that they may be indirectly responsible. They'll simply throw their hands up in the air and burn down a few Mosques for good measure!

I'm all in favour of freedom of speech and the freedom to demonstrate. However there always have to be limits and this goes well beyond any sane definition of a reasonable demonstration. Has this dingbat written any books people could burn?

I'm all in favour of freedom of speech and the freedom to demonstrate. However there always have to be limits and this goes well beyond any sane definition of a reasonable demonstration. Has this dingbat written any books people could burn?

 

He has, a "critique" of Islam, surprisingly enough.

Absolutley ridiculous... Completley agree with Shoat's points so don't want to repeat him but my LORD, what a completley stupid world we live in. And people say religion isn't the root of evil :rolleyes:

He has, a "critique" of Islam, surprisingly enough.

I'm sure it's a thoroughly balanced account, completely free of any hint of bigotry. Just as Mein Kampf was.

It is sheer lunacy, this freak should be locked up under inciting racial hatred charges as this will inflame the situation no end, one of the best recruiting sergeants for the taliban and al qaeda I have ever come across.

 

The one consolation is he will probably have a fatwa taken out on him if it happens and shot between the eyes but it is everyone else who will be at risk too as this will inflame extremists against the west

How ridiculously short-sighted... if this does anything it'll only convince more Muslims on the brink of converting to radical ideas to do so and potentially commit atrocities, as has already been pointed out. The man is a complete goon, good job from the Pope's perspective it's been done now to make anything he does look comparatively sane :rolleyes:

Oh jesus christ. :manson: What an inbred f***tard, he is putting our troops directly in harms way.

First off, I don't agree with the book burning for many of the reasons already provided. However, there are a few points that I would like to pick up on.

 

According to the news article in question, the congregation this pastor serves numbers no more than 50, rendering it less than a mere pimple on the Bible belt, yet thanks to the media the whole world knows about them. Had the media not picked up on the story, this would just be another example of the lunatic fringe found in certain parts of the world. Whilst they didn't start the fire, they sure are adding a lot of tyres to it.

 

Also, I'd like to play Devil's Advocate by comparing this book burning with another recent anti-Islamic event that happened recently, 'Everybody Draw Muhammed Day,' an act which some Muslims might seem as on par or worse than burning the Koran. Granted, most of the examples that I have come across have been in good taste, but there have been a few that have been so crass and vile it almost made me angry. My question (rhetorical or not) is this: how come the 'Draw Muhammed Day' was met with such celebration throughout the internet, yet this event has been met with almost universal anger? Is it because of the individual behind the seperate events?

 

(For the record, I did not support 'Draw Muhammed Day,' but I did understand the sentiment behind it)

The best way of dealing with cranks and nutcases is to not give them the oxygen of publicity but instead one inbred redneck has had Obama talking, has had the Pope, Hillary Clinton, the secretary general of the UN, Gen Patreous and others giving him publicity that he doesn't deserve, he has been all over news programs, he has been all over the net, the nutcase is lapping it up, he doesn't deserve attention, the best way to deal with him is no news, media or tv organisation to give him any publicity.

The best way of dealing with cranks and nutcases is to not give them the oxygen of publicity but instead one inbred redneck has had Obama talking, has had the Pope, Hillary Clinton, the secretary general of the UN, Gen Patreous and others giving him publicity that he doesn't deserve, he has been all over news programs, he has been all over the net, the nutcase is lapping it up, he doesn't deserve attention, the best way to deal with him is no news, media or tv organisation to give him any publicity.

 

Maybe, but I can see where they're coming from. The best thing would have been for the story to never have hit the media in the first place, but once it had, it couldn't really be brushed under the carpet. If Obama et all are all perceived to be ignoring this, that would look 10 times worse no?

Maybe, but I can see where they're coming from. If Obama et all are all perceived to be ignoring this, that would look 10 times worse no?

 

There will probably be live cameras now at the burning with dozens of news helicopters overhead showing the bonfire live across the world whereas if the media had zipped it about this there would just be 50 nutcases gathered round a fire.

 

I am against censorship but a huge international incident and media frenzy has been created when a news blackout would have been better.

 

 

Exactly - even if they're so stupid that they think all Muslims are evil, how can they not realise that THEY will eventually suffer if they go ahead with this? How can they not realise actions like this only antagonise Islamic extremists further? If this does go ahead, the probability of a terrorist attack on American soil within the next year will probably increase by about 10 times...

 

Any bets on how long it takes for Sarah Palin and the other "Tea Party" nutcases to announce their support of this? :puke2:

 

tbf even she has condemned this :o

 

When someone like her condemns it you know it is a f***ed up idea

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100908/ts_al..._20100908223820

 

 

 

 

 

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Former US vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin on Wednesday condemned a small Florida church's planned Koran burning ceremony as an "insensitive and an unnecessary provocation."

 

"Book burning is antithetical to American ideals," Palin, a possible Republican contender for the White House in 2012, said in a post on her Facebook page.

 

"People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation -- much like building a mosque at Ground Zero," said the former Alaska governor.

 

She was comparing the evangelical Christian Dove World Outreach Center's plans to torch Islam's holy book on the anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist strikes to plans to build a community center to include a mosque some two blocks from the site of the attacks in New York City.

 

Palin urged the Koran burning organizer, Pastor Terry Jones, to reconsider the possible effects of their planned gesture, which has drawn expressions of outrage from around the globe.

 

"It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire," she said.

 

"If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom, and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counter-productive."

 

Palin noted the importance of freedom of religion in the United States and warned against "unnecessarily provoking strife."

Edited September 9, 201014 yr by I ❤ JustinBieber

:o Sarah Palin in speaking sense SHOCKER

 

The other argument to be made is that the book burning HASN'T actually taken place yet - maybe the thinking is that with all this national outcry, they might be able to put a stop to it before it happens? If even Palin is against it, you know it's a bad idea.

It's been called off. No surpirse there, as I doubted he would've gone through with it in the first place. Now it's a question of what Mr Jones will do now with his increased media profile from this 'stunt.' I hope the 4th Estate are proud of themselves.

It's only been called off on the understanding that they'll move the location of the Mosque planned for near Ground Zero.