its true, there's a lack of variety in the charts atm, mainly because it mainly consists of club friendly hip hop, rap and dance combinations, there are a few exceptions but generally the lack of many forms of indie or rock is the cause of this- and whilst I hate moaning about this sort of thing, the charts seem totally americanised these days

 

the thing is I do genuinely believe that if a truly great rock/indie song comes out, or at least something a little bit different from the norm- it can do well, you've got examples from Kasabian, Muse and Brandon Flowers from recent years- its a shame, but most if not all of the rock material released recently has been rather sub-standard and a pale shade on the acts past work, a sub-standard generic urban song would still be relatively popular, but if its rock, people just aren't interested :(

Edited May 3, 201114 yr by chart wizard

Don't forget S Club 7! :wub: :wub: :wub: Much better than the Spice Girls & Beatles put together! This is, of course, a different arguement...................

:mellow:

 

This forum seriously gets weirder.

A situation where there is claimed to be variety, yet there isn't any at all, is Heart FM's playlist. The only songs they play that sound different to everything else they play are Only Girl and I Gotta Feeling. Yet their motto is "more music variety"! :blink:

 

Though I :heart: ballads Heart FM is very :puke2: :puke2: :puke2: :puke2:

The variety of popular top 40 music is at an all time low. There's barely been any rock/alt music in the singles chart this year, and any tracks that have made the top 40 only stick around for a week (with Noah and the Whale being the notable exception).

So true. 2011 in general seems to be way down on 2010 and especially 2009 in terms of alt-y stuff, by which I mean in the Pitchfork spectrum, not The Wombats, Two Door Cinema Club et. al. (although they're nice too). My itunes has just 120 songs from 2011 compared to 1200 from each 2010 and 2009, anyway.

its true, there's a lack of variety in the charts atm, mainly because it mainly consists of club friendly hip hop, rap and dance combinations, there are a few exceptions but generally the lack of many forms of indie or rock is the cause of this- and whilst I hate moaning about this sort of thing, the charts seem totally americanised these days

 

the thing is I do genuinely believe that if a truly great rock/indie song comes out, or at least something a little bit different from the norm- it can do well, you've got examples from Kasabian, Muse and Brandon Flowers from recent years- its a shame, but most if not all of the rock material released recently has been rather sub-standard and a pale shade on the acts past work, a sub-standard generic urban song would still be relatively popular, but if its rock, people just aren't interested :(

 

Perhaps part of the problem with rock music is that it's too pure?

 

I mean, really, we don't see many pure pop, pure RnB, pure hip hop or pure dance songs in the chart either.

 

Pop songs have rap verses in now, RnB songs often use electronic instruments these days, some hip hop songs have dance beats. You've got the likes of David Guetta collabing with a bunch of RnB and hip hop artists on almost all his songs (Kid Cudi, Estelle, Fergie, Nicki Minaj, Kelly Rowland, etc.).

 

Perhaps rock isn't in the charts because it doesn't mix with other genres. And when rock does mix with other genres, it gets dismissed as pop or whatever. But when, say Rnb and pop mix, both the genres claim it.

 

I mean, in reality, there's only one song in the chart which I'd say was almost pure RnB, for example.

The reason rock isn't in the singles charts is simply because they are irrelevant to the success of the genre.

 

Look at the most recent evidence - Foo Fighters single 'Rope' is one of their lowest charting ever. The album hits No. 1 on both sides of the Atlantic (their first US No. 1) and breaks digital records in Australia and New Zealand.

 

Iron Maiden release the lead single from their new album as a free download, making it ineligible in the charts. The album tops the charts in over 30 countries worldwide.

 

The fact is that rock music continues to be strong in album sales and particularly in touring/live performance, where it is easily the highest earner. Success in the singles chart is in this day and age a total irrelevance for the vast majority of rock acts.

 

And also another thing that irks me is all this talk about UK artists 'breaking' America as though it's something impossible to do. Bullet For My Valentine, a Welsh metal band, are very popular over there with their latest album hitting No. 3 on the Billboard 200. So much for a band that Louis Walsh and Simon Cowell had never heard of on X-Factor!

Edited May 3, 201114 yr by ags_rule

The reason rock isn't in the singles charts is simply because they are irrelevant to the success of the genre.

 

Look at the most recent evidence - Foo Fighters single 'Rope' is one of their lowest charting ever. The album hits No. 1 on both sides of the Atlantic (their first US No. 1) and breaks digital records in Australia and New Zealand.

 

Iron Maiden release the lead single from their new album as a free download, making it ineligible in the charts. The album tops the charts in over 30 countries worldwide.

 

The fact is that rock music continues to be strong in album sales and particularly in touring/live performance, where it is easily the highest earner. Success in the singles chart is in this day and age a total irrelevance for the vast majority of rock acts.

 

Good points.

 

Dance, hip hop, etc. may be dominating the singles chart, but if there was a touring chart, it would look completely different, and be dominated by rock for sure.

Perhaps part of the problem with rock music is that it's too pure?

 

I mean, really, we don't see many pure pop, pure RnB, pure hip hop or pure dance songs in the chart either.

 

Pop songs have rap verses in now, RnB songs often use electronic instruments these days, some hip hop songs have dance beats. You've got the likes of David Guetta collabing with a bunch of RnB and hip hop artists on almost all his songs (Kid Cudi, Estelle, Fergie, Nicki Minaj, Kelly Rowland, etc.).

 

Perhaps rock isn't in the charts because it doesn't mix with other genres. And when rock does mix with other genres, it gets dismissed as pop or whatever. But when, say Rnb and pop mix, both the genres claim it.

 

I mean, in reality, there's only one song in the chart which I'd say was almost pure RnB, for example.

 

good point actually, it won't appeal to anyone except rock fans- whereas other genres can cross over

 

and of course, Foo Fighters doing so well recently with their album, proves that the public do still have a taste for rock- its juts not fully transferred on to the singles chart

 

Rock and Indie is only doing so badly because they sound NOTHING like the music in today's charts. Big rock acts like Arctic Monkeys and Foo Fighters miss the top 20 with their lead singles because they're rock music. There has recently been an example of rock meets rap (You Me At Six 'Rescue Me') but it still isn't good enough and the song was very frontloaded.

 

Rock might make a small comeback in a few years when the general public are sick of songs sounding the same but it will never be as big as it was in the 90s. Anything can happen but it's unlikely.

the thing is I do genuinely believe that if a truly great rock/indie song comes out, or at least something a little bit different from the norm- it can do well, you've got examples from Kasabian, Muse and Brandon Flowers from recent years- its a shame, but most if not all of the rock material released recently has been rather sub-standard and a pale shade on the acts past work, a sub-standard generic urban song would still be relatively popular, but if its rock, people just aren't interested :(

I'd hardly call those artists different from the norm. They might not be urban-pop, but they're not even remotely 'out there'. A lot of successful pop music comes closer to being 'out there' than those 3 artists.

 

Rock and Indie is only doing so badly because they sound NOTHING like the music in today's charts. Big rock acts like Arctic Monkeys and Foo Fighters miss the top 20 with their lead singles because they're rock music. There has recently been an example of rock meets rap (You Me At Six 'Rescue Me') but it still isn't good enough and the song was very frontloaded.

 

Rock might make a small comeback in a few years when the general public are sick of songs sounding the same but it will never be as big as it was in the 90s. Anything can happen but it's unlikely.

 

I loved Rescue Me actually. I wish it had done better.

 

I think one of the best examples of rock and rap combinations is surely Numb/Encore? I don't know if I'm being a bit overdramatic when I say this, but I really think that Numb/Encore could be a future classic! I'm a bit biased, since I love the song, but I've genuinely never ever seen it not in the top 1000 on iTunes, and I even see it in the top 300 from time to time.

 

Some of my closest friends were Linkin Park obsessives at one point (although they don't seem to ever talk about them now). Like really, really full-on. And I remember we were at a beach once, and there was this random guy selling things, and there was a whole album of Jay-Z/Linkin Park collabs which he had, so obviously my friends got excited and bought it! :lol: So yeah, I love the song for nostalgia, but I genuinely think it's loved by a lot of people, and surely one of the biggest rap/rock combinations in our lifetime?

 

This is where I usually get told the artist I'm talking about isn't rock, and is actually a pop artist. :lol:

Edited May 3, 201114 yr by Eric_Blob

I'd hardly call those artists different from the norm. They might not be urban-pop, but they're not even remotely 'out there'. A lot of successful pop music comes closer to being 'out there' than those 3 artists.

 

they were strong songs for their genre though - maybe something that just sounds distinct enough to not sound like a former album track from their previous work, and interest new fans (Brandon Flowers isn't the best example admittedly, Human by The Killers would be a better example)

Edited May 3, 201114 yr by chart wizard

The reason rock isn't in the singles charts is simply because they are irrelevant to the success of the genre.

 

Look at the most recent evidence - Foo Fighters single 'Rope' is one of their lowest charting ever. The album hits No. 1 on both sides of the Atlantic (their first US No. 1) and breaks digital records in Australia and New Zealand.

 

Iron Maiden release the lead single from their new album as a free download, making it ineligible in the charts. The album tops the charts in over 30 countries worldwide.

 

The fact is that rock music continues to be strong in album sales and particularly in touring/live performance, where it is easily the highest earner. Success in the singles chart is in this day and age a total irrelevance for the vast majority of rock acts.

 

And also another thing that irks me is all this talk about UK artists 'breaking' America as though it's something impossible to do. Bullet For My Valentine, a Welsh metal band, are very popular over there with their latest album hitting No. 3 on the Billboard 200. So much for a band that Louis Walsh and Simon Cowell had never heard of on X-Factor!

 

But none of these acts are particularly 'new' though, and that's where the problem comes in. As far as I can tell, The Vaccines are the only rock band this year to obtain their first top 40 hit in 2011 (and perhaps Beady Eye as well, although that's really a continuation of Oasis). And many of these bands have had success in the singles chart (Iron Maiden even had a number 1 single, although that has more to do with when they released it than how good the song is). Touring money is all well and good, but if they're not getting the attention from top 40 singles, how are they ever going to accrue a fan base that will sustain them for 20+ years?

I loved Rescue Me actually. I wish it had done better.

 

I think one of the best examples of rock and rap combinations is surely Numb/Encore? I don't know if I'm being a bit overdramatic when I say this, but I really think that Numb/Encore could be a future classic! I'm a bit biased, since I love the song, but I've genuinely never ever seen it not in the top 1000 on iTunes, and I even see it in the top 300 from time to time.

 

Some of my closest friends were Linkin Park obsessives at one point (although they don't seem to ever talk about them now). Like really, really full-on. And I remember we were at a beach once, and there was this random guy selling things, and there was a whole album of Jay-Z/Linkin Park collabs which he had, so obviously my friends got excited and bought it! :lol: So yeah, I love the song for nostalgia, but I genuinely think it's loved by a lot of people, and surely one of the biggest rap/rock combinations in our lifetime?

 

This is where I usually get told the artist I'm talking about isn't rock, and is actually a pop artist. :lol:

Yeah, the difference between Numb / Encore and Rescue Me is that Jay-Z and Linkin' Park were both hugely popular acts in their own right. It WOULD still work if it was done today, IMO. It could be a way to bring rock into the charts, and bring it to a different audience, but it'd have to be with bigger acts than You Me at Six and Chiddy Bang of all people. Would be interesting to see some major rock and rap acts collaborations in the charts though.

 

Wasn't there also one of the Saturdays on a Kids in Glass Houses single? That still flopped, but it's another example of rock trying to appeal to more pop fans. Again, maybe if a more popular band tried something like that, it could work, I think.

Edited May 3, 201114 yr by superbossanova

No, that would be the mid 00s, 2004-2008 in general were awful years.

Yeah, the difference between Numb / Encore and Rescue Me is that Jay-Z and Linkin' Park were both hugely popular acts in their own right. It WOULD still work if it was done today, IMO. It could be a way to bring rock into the charts, and bring it to a different audience, but it'd have to be with bigger acts than You Me at Six and Chiddy Bang of all people. Would be interesting to see some major rock and rap acts collaborations in the charts though.

 

Tinie Tempah and Biffy Clyro?

It is funny how the charts are so club orientated these days, but there is such a lack of house, trance, eurodance, in the charts. Most of it is electro-pop, or urban-dance.

No, that would be the mid 00s, 2004-2008 in general were awful years.

 

I liked those years. Although I'm obviously going to like them, since they were bang in the middle of my senior school and college years (which were 2002-2010, or something like that). :lol:

I don't hate the music currently in the charts at all, the major thing I miss is variety, as a few others have mentioned. If it were LMFAO in the top ten along with a couple of ballads, a couple of indie tracks, a couple of dance tracks, some pop and some R&B then great, and Superbossanova was right, years like 1998 had it all - they genuinely did have top tens that looked like this, with the acts behind them often hailing from as many as 6 or 7 different countries. Lets look at the current iTunes top ten;

 

1. LMFAO/Goon Rock/Lauren Bennett - Party Rock Anthem -> Club banger, rap/urban meets dance -> US

2. Bruno Mars - The Lazy Song -> MOR/Pop -> US

3. Chris Brown/Benny Benassi - Beautiful People -> Club banger, rap/urban meets dance -> US/Italy

4. David Guetta, Nicki Minaj, Flo Rida - Where Dem Girls At -> Club banger, rap/urban meets dance -> US/France

5. Snoop Dogg/David Guetta - Sweat -> Club banger, rap/urban meets dance - US/France

6. Jennifer Lopez feat Pitbull - On The Floor -> Club banger, rap/pop meets dance - US

7. Wretch 32 feat Example - Unorthodox -> Rap/dance - UK

8. Katy Perry feat Kanye West - E.T. -> Pop/rap - US

9. Tracy Chapman - Fast Car -> Pop/folk/singer-songwriter - US

10. Mann feat 50 Cent - Buzzin' -> Club banger, rap/urban meets dance -> US

 

So...we have seven songs that are rap/dance hybrids or 'club bangers' as many of them have become known and NINE of the top ten are from the US, at least partly, eight of them are collaborations! Now I can say that I like all ten of these songs to some extent, although I LOVE only one (J.Lo), but take Tracy Chapman out and that's probably the least variety the ten most popular songs in the country has ever seen. So I'm not moaning about the quality of the music around at the moment, for me it's more about the lack of variety. So I'm afraid I can't agree with Jester that we don't have one genre dominating, as we very much do - it's just not exactly a defined genre in its own right, more a hybrid of two - rap and dance.

 

It sort of irks me to see barely any change in the iTunes top ten for weeks on end, until the moment a new club banger is released, and it gallops past the competition whilst the few songs from other genres that are in the top 40 - Aloe Blacc, Birdy etc...are taking weeks on end to climb at snails pace only to make it as far as the glass ceiling of the top twenty, blocked out by ten songs that are all doing the same thing and appealing to the same audience - even if they don't necessarily sound 'exactly' the same.

I loved Rescue Me actually. I wish it had done better.

 

I think one of the best examples of rock and rap combinations is surely Numb/Encore? I don't know if I'm being a bit overdramatic when I say this, but I really think that Numb/Encore could be a future classic! I'm a bit biased, since I love the song, but I've genuinely never ever seen it not in the top 1000 on iTunes, and I even see it in the top 300 from time to time.

 

Some of my closest friends were Linkin Park obsessives at one point (although they don't seem to ever talk about them now). Like really, really full-on. And I remember we were at a beach once, and there was this random guy selling things, and there was a whole album of Jay-Z/Linkin Park collabs which he had, so obviously my friends got excited and bought it! :lol: So yeah, I love the song for nostalgia, but I genuinely think it's loved by a lot of people, and surely one of the biggest rap/rock combinations in our lifetime?

 

This is where I usually get told the artist I'm talking about isn't rock, and is actually a pop artist. :lol:

 

The only thing stopping Numb/Encore from being a future classic is the fact that it's a mashup and so is, by its very nature, unoriginal. I can see other songs by Jay-Z and Linkin Park being seen as classics in the future (99 Problems for Jay, most like In The End for LP) but Numb/Encore will be seen very much as a chart song if that makes any sense? A song that is known for its chart record and success rather than being held up by the acts' fans as a creative highpoint.

 

I still hold hopes for rock in the singles chart in years to come, but it'll take both a shift in tastes (which could come around sooner rather than later with the saturation of electropop and R'n'B-dance crossovers) and a properly worthy act - someone on the scale of Blur, Oasis or the Strokes rather than the Vaccines. That is, of course, reliant on the right buying conditions. The British rock/faux-indie revival of 2004-7 coincided with a very weak sales period in the singles chart where acts with commited fanbases could score a string of moderate hits. This suited rock rather well because of its nature, but it's been rather stuck in a rut since.