Greek bailout referendum to launch euro ‘endgame’

http://rt.com/news/greek-bailout-referendum-greece-339/

 

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has stunned the EU by calling a national referendum on the latest bailout deal to the economy. This might be the only way for the Greek government to restore its legitimacy, argues economist James Meadway.

 

“Possibly, it is by forcing the issue back on to the people that is the only route for them to deal with the crisis, restore their legitimacy and rehabilitate the deeply unpopular government,” says James Meadway, senior economist at the New Economics Foundation.

 

Papandreou will have to face other ordeals before the proposed referendum can take place, continues Meadway. First, the government will have to withstand a confidence vote on Friday. Moreover, the New Democracy Party, which is the principal opposition party in Greece, is demanding a new election rather than a bailout referendum

 

The recent violent protests in Greece suggest the bailout referendum might result in a ‘no’ vote, but this could play into the hands of Athens, says Meadway. The country would be in a position to default on its debt and rebuild its economy, which has been shattered by the euro burden.

 

Greece and the EU are facing the “endgame”, believes the economist. Time has come for concrete measures.

 

“Since the first bailout of Greece in March 2010, we have always been reaching a critical stage while the final reckoning has been deferred and deferred. The collective leadership of the EU, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund has managed to push off any kind of decisive change of the situation which could resolve the crisis,” he told RT.

 

Greece’s possible default, although urgently needed within the country, poses a danger to the fundamentals of the eurozone, underlines Marco Pietropoli, a financial adviser at RM Wealth Management.

 

“Most of the Greek debt is owned by other EU sovereigns as well as by the banks and pension funds,” says Pietropoli. “The Greek default might make the banking system much less stable. The worry here is the snowball effect – whether this will lead to a number of other sovereign defaults and the credit crunch for the banks to plunge into.”

 

The crisis has shown that the eurozone as such should be restructured. Countries which are not truly aligned should leave, or Europe should integrate further both politically and fiscally, remarks Pietropoli. Another solution to the eurozone crisis would be the Europeans printing more money to monetize the debt, but that would send inflation spiraling.

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Well, that was a surprise... Basically it sounds like Papandreou is fighting for his political life... Greeks hate him. That much is clear from the demos and riots on the streets.. If a referendum comes (and there's no cast-iron guarantee of that, I don't doubt the Banksters will have a few tricks up their sleeves to try and nobble this) and if the Greek people vote against this deal, then it surely spells potential disaster for the Eurozone.... 2012 is sure looking to be interesting either way....

 

James Meadway in the interview says something interesting however, the way the markets reacted yesterday to a perfectly legitimate democratic proposal (I mean heaven forbid the Greek people have a say in their own destiny... -_- ) is indeed very telling... Capitalism is clearly scared/hostile to true Democracy.... All the more reason to have more true Democracy, IMO....

Papandreou is either very brave or foolish.

 

The reason we have representative democracy is so that complex decisions like this are made on our behalf. In theory (obviously it doesn't always work out that way), decisions are made by people who are paid to take the time to study the issues on more depth than the average Joe (or Dmitiri).

 

Of course the markets have panicked because this referendum means a return to uncertainty with the banks being particularly vulnerable. The consequences of a No vote are huge, not just for Greece but for the rest of Europe and beyond. Unless he thinks he can secure a Yes vote, Papandreou is taking a huge risk on the economies of the world.

Papandreou is either very brave or foolish.

 

The reason we have representative democracy is so that complex decisions like this are made on our behalf. In theory (obviously it doesn't always work out that way), decisions are made by people who are paid to take the time to study the issues on more depth than the average Joe (or Dmitiri).

 

Of course the markets have panicked because this referendum means a return to uncertainty with the banks being particularly vulnerable. The consequences of a No vote are huge, not just for Greece but for the rest of Europe and beyond. Unless he thinks he can secure a Yes vote, Papandreou is taking a huge risk on the economies of the world.

 

But what if the people making these complex decisions are not doing it in the best interests of the people of that sovereign nation, but in the interests of a tiny cabal of global banking and corporate elites...? Which is surely the whole problem with this Financial Crisis... That "representative governments" have been revealed to be resolutely NOT acting in the interests of their respective peoples for the past several decades.... This is what "Occupy.." and GIABO (the Global Insurrections Against Banker Occupation) is all about....

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree.. I'm 100% behind the Greek Referendum.. Now, perhaps the voice of the Greek nation can be heard... Because it certainly wasn't heard when Greek politicians took the decision upon themselves to enter into the Euro (dishonestly by the way, deliberately down-playing the extent of their debt-to-GDP ratio) and to basically f**k-up the Greek people with all this toxic crap.... Oh, but of course it suited German and French banks to loan Greece billions so they would import French and German goods and help keep their economies afloat...

There were plenty of people arguing at the time that Greece should not be allowed to join the euro. However, those people were ignored and we can't turn the clock back and change the decision - or any other incorrect decision for that matter.

 

The issues involved are far too complex for a referendum, particularly as a referendum can realistically have a maximum of three choices. This is just an attempt at buck-passing. If it all goes horribly wrong then the Greek government can just blame the electorate rather than themselves.

 

There were plenty of people arguing at the time that Greece should not be allowed to join the euro. However, those people were ignored and we can't turn the clock back and change the decision - or any other incorrect decision for that matter.

The issues involved are far too complex for a referendum, particularly as a referendum can realistically have a maximum of three choices. This is just an attempt at buck-passing. If it all goes horribly wrong then the Greek government can just blame the electorate rather than themselves.

 

Not sure I agree. The issues didn't seem to prove too complicated for people when there was a similar referendum done concerning bank bail-outs in Iceland...

 

I think it's simple tbh - Do you want the EU Bail-out fund, or, Do you want Greece to default, and bring in a devalued Drachma...? Either way involves pain, but the latter option actually means you keep your sovereignty and you're not controlled by the IMF...

The trouble is polls suggest that Greeks don't like the bail-out conditions but want to keep the euro. That's where things start to get complicated. Just coming up with a question will be awkward enough.

The trouble is polls suggest that Greeks don't like the bail-out conditions but want to keep the euro. That's where things start to get complicated. Just coming up with a question will be awkward enough.

 

That doesn't make any sense, you can't reject the bail-out conditions and stay in the Euro.. The Euro is what the Greek's problem is.... As in, they should never have been in it to begin with....

 

The markets really hate not being in control, so I can see them really reacting well to this news.

 

 

I personally think that the EU should have turned round to Greece and gone look, you're gonna have to start collecting taxes and make a few cuts here and there but we will give you enough cash to support you in the short term and help you get your shit in order.

 

Of course that would have made the bankers less money so would never happen.

That doesn't make any sense, you can't reject the bail-out conditions and stay in the Euro.. The Euro is what the Greek's problem is.... As in, they should never have been in it to begin with....

Of course they should never have been in it but the fact is that they are in it. You have to live in the world as it is, not as you'd like it to be.

 

The attitude of the Greek public (against the bail-out conditions but for membership of the euro) doesn't make sense but, again, the fact is that that is their attitude. Politicians are paid to resolve conflicts like that.

 

Public opinion is notoriously fickle and contradictory. After all, polls suggest that people think that all the main parties are too similar but also that politicians should do what the electorate want. Those two opinions are contradictory but there seem to be a lot of people who think both simultaneously.

But what if the people making these complex decisions are not doing it in the best interests of the people of that sovereign nation, but in the interests of a tiny cabal of global banking and corporate elites...? Which is surely the whole problem with this Financial Crisis... That "representative governments" have been revealed to be resolutely NOT acting in the interests of their respective peoples for the past several decades.... This is what "Occupy.." and GIABO (the Global Insurrections Against Banker Occupation) is all about....

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree.. I'm 100% behind the Greek Referendum.. Now, perhaps the voice of the Greek nation can be heard... Because it certainly wasn't heard when Greek politicians took the decision upon themselves to enter into the Euro (dishonestly by the way, deliberately down-playing the extent of their debt-to-GDP ratio) and to basically f**k-up the Greek people with all this toxic crap.... Oh, but of course it suited German and French banks to loan Greece billions so they would import French and German goods and help keep their economies afloat...

That opens a huge can of worms and there's no easy way of making sure it's not true. On the other hand, what do the general public know about the economic theory behind all of this? A call for referendum is odd indeed.

That opens a huge can of worms and there's no easy way of making sure it's not true. On the other hand, what do the general public know about the economic theory behind all of this? A call for referendum is odd indeed.

 

Well, it's clearly not true.. If you look at the actions of many of our Politicians and how they've favoured the banks and the corporations, and how they look the other way when the banks and Corporations commit fraud and other crimes...

 

TBH, I think the Greek population in general have been pretty savvy, they certainly seem to know who the enemy is, the IMF, the ECB, the French and German banks, and their own crooked politicians...

And just to illustrate my point (one of them), the Independent are suggesting that the question will be along the lines of "Do you wish Greece to remain within the eurozone?"

GOOD GRIEF.... :o

 

Greek crisis: Papandreou 'to offer to resign'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15575198

 

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou is expected to offer his resignation within the next half-hour, sources in Athens have told the BBC.

 

Mr Papandreou will meet Greek President Karolos Papoulias immediately after an emergency cabinet meeting has finished.

 

He is expected to offer a coalition government, with former Greek central banker Lucas Papademos at the helm.

 

Mr Papandreou himself would stand down, the BBC understands.

 

The Greek government was on the verge of collapse after several ministers said they did not support Mr Papandreou's plan for a referendum on the EU bailout.

 

The bailout would give the heavily indebted Greek government 130bn euros (£111bn; $178bn) and a 50% write-off of its debts, in return for deeply unpopular austerity measures.

 

On Thursday, main opposition leader Antonis Samaras of the centre-right New Democracy party called for a caretaker government to safeguard the EU deal.

Shadow over G20

 

Mr Papandreou had called a vote of confidence for Friday. His Pasok party holds a slim majority, 152 out of 300 seats.

 

However, he was faced with a parliamentary revolt after several of his MPs withheld their backing. Some called for early elections or a government of national unity instead.

 

One Pasok rebel MP, Eva Kaili, told the BBC: ''I think now the only solution is to have a new government of national rescue and co-operation led by a person that is recognised by the majority [as] prime minister and tries to uphold the agreement [on the EU bailout] of 26 October."

 

The row threatens to overshadow a meeting of the G20 in Cannes, where leading industrialised nations are to discuss the eurozone debt crisis.

 

Mr Papandreou told reporters in Cannes his referendum would in effect be a vote on whether Greece should remain in the euro.

 

But the European Commission said if Greece left the European single currency, it would have to leave the European Union as well.

Greek parliament graphic

 

"The treaty doesn't foresee an exit from the eurozone without exiting the EU," spokeswoman Karolina Kottova told a briefing in Brussels.

 

Earlier, the chairman of the group of eurozone countries, Jean-Claude Juncker of Luxembourg, said plans were in place for a Greek exit from the euro.

 

"We are absolutely prepared for the situation that I have described and do not want to see come about," Mr Juncker told German ZDF television.

 

Greek Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos launched the parliamentary revolt in the early hours of Thursday with a statement saying Greece's membership of the euro could not be put in doubt.

 

"If we want to protect the country we must, under conditions of national unity and political seriousness and consensus, implement without any delay the decision of 26 October. Now, as soon as possible," Mr Venizelos said.

 

Mr Venizelos is a former challenger for the Pasok leadership. In 2004, he was defeated by Mr Papandreou by 56% to 38% in a party vote.

 

Greece was due to receive the next tranche of funds from its first bailout later this month. However, the EU has said it will not transfer the 8bn euros until after the referendum

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So, two days after he announces a Referendum (probably the most democratic thing that he did in his entire Premiership...), Papandreou announces his intention to resign... Question is, did he jump, or was he pushed...?

There seems to be a lot of doubt over whether he had sufficient support for a referendum. No ministers were told about it before he announced it to the world.

 

According to Greek state television, he is NOT about to resign. However, he faces a confidence motion tomorrow which is very much in the balance.

It sounds like he doesn't have a clue what he is doing at all! Calling a referendum in the hope of forcing a change in the terms of the bail-out deal was a duff move, if indeed that was the intention.

In an interesting post-script to this, the likes of the Daily Fail and The Scum who have been consistently screaming their lungs out for a UK referendum on our membership of the EU have been screaming their lungs out against the Greeks having a referendum on the bail-out deal... Funny, eh...?

In an interesting post-script to this, the likes of the Daily Fail and The Scum who have been consistently screaming their lungs out for a UK referendum on our membership of the EU have been screaming their lungs out against the Greeks having a referendum on the bail-out deal... Funny, eh...?

 

They're only in favour of democracy when it suits them, we should expect this by now -_-

Referendum cancelled. And he will most likely lose the confidence vote. G20 leaders admit that Greece may leave the euro.

 

Explainer: How could/would Greece leave the eurozone? <- interesting!

Referendum cancelled. And he will most likely lose the confidence vote. G20 leaders admit that Greece may leave the euro.

 

Explainer: How could/would Greece leave the eurozone? <- interesting!

 

Bizarre, doesn't really surprise me that they couldn't stay in the EU were they to leave the Euro. The UK's opt-out was fairly long-winded wasn't it?