Posted January 13, 201213 yr The Almost Saturday Charts are a Mike Robinson Production based on 5 download sites, actual iTunes sales & the odd physical from HMV. Just before this week's charts...Let us step back, because it's exactly 50 years (or was on 7th January) that the Charts have been broadcasted by some outfit called the BBC on a Sunday. So, how did that first Sunday show pan out? Well it was introduced by Alan Freeman (as Pick Of The Pops) & produced by Denys Jones. The show lasted for 1 hour & kicked off with those new entries, the new releases, the LP spot, & finally the top 10. This was the running order: Top 20 newcomers JAMES DARREN 20 G-CLEFS 15 BOBBY VEE 14 DOROTHY PROVINE 17 New Releases COME RUNNING - MARTY WILDE THE YOUNG ONES - CLIFF RICHARD & THE SHADOWS HE'S OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER - THE CRICKETS FORGET ME NOT - EDEN KANE YOU'RE FOLLOWING ME - JIMMY BREEDLOVE CRYING IN THE RAIN - EVERLY BROTHERS MR MUSIC MAN - JIMMY JONES LP Spot DANCING IN THE DARK - TONY BENNETT The top 10 singles followed, but this was the BBC top 20 that week: 20 NE GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD - JAMES DARREN 20 RE YOU'RE THE ONLY GOOD THING (THAT'S HAPPENED TO ME) - JIM REEVES 19 13 WALKIN' BACK TO HAPPINESS - HELEN SHAPIRO 17 RE I CRIED FOR YOU - RICKY STEVENS 17 NE DON'T BRING LULU - DOROTHY PROVINE 16 17 SON, THIS IS SHE - JOHN LEYTON 15 NE I UNDERSTAND - THE G-CLEFS 14 NE RUN TO HIM - BOBBY VEE 13 09 MY FRIEND THE SEA - PETULA CLARK 12 07 TAKE GOOD CARE OF MY BABY - BOBBY VEE 11 10 TOY BALLOONS - RUSS CONWAY 10 14 MULTIPLICATION - BOBBY DARIN 09 08 SO LONG BABY - DEL SHANNON 08 10 I'D NEVER FIND ANOTHER YOU - BILLY FURY 07 12 HAPPY BIRTHDAY SWEET SIXTEEN - NEIL SEDAKA 06 06 MIDNIGHT IN MOSCOW - KENNY BALL 05 03 TOWER OF STRENGTH - FRANKIE VAUGAN 04 04 JOHNNY WILL - PAT BOONE 03 05 LET THERE BE DRUMS - SANDY NELSON 02 01 MOON RIVER - DANNY WILLIAMS 01 02 STRANGER ON THE SHORE - MR ACKER BILK That's about as perfect as we could be in 1962. No recognised Official type charts & never believe that a so called "Record Retailer" chart was official because it wasn't. Half the time (the chart that Guiness uses for 1960s charts) is so, so wrong it's quite breath taking. Record Retailer polled just 30 shops & then ended up with millions of ties in it's charts. Then, they proceeded to separate ties, depending on what was higher on the previous week. Many people never realise that Record Retailer actually had many unlisted joint number ones (that you'd never know about) including the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Acker Bilk, Everly Brothers & many more. In 1962, they got even more ridiculous, when they mixed up Acker Bilk with Kenny Ball & another time in 1966, when Nancy Sinatra was confused with the Small Faces, can you believe?! So, I urge all of you, always take Guiness & Record Retailer with a pinch of salt (or even better, throw them in the bin)! Back up to date. The Top Physicals 01 01 MILITARY WIVES 8000 02 02 JLS 03 03 NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS 04 04 LITTLE MIX 05 05 X FACTOR FINALISTS Top 10 Albums 10 16 NOEL GALLAGHER'S HIGH FLYING BIRDS 09 18 KASABIAN 08 05 COLDPLAY 07 17 VACCINES 06 03 NOW 80 05 09 BEYONCE 04 04 ED SHEERAN 03 01 ADELE 02 02 BRUNO MARS 01 NE MACCABEES Top 75 Proper BENNY BENASSI/CHRIS BROWN Top 70 ENRIQUE KANYE WEST - GOLDDIGGER MACCABEES CALVIN HARRIS - BOUNCE ALOE BLACC EMINEM - LOSE YOURSELF KANYE WEST - ALL OF THE LIGHTS KATY PERRY - ET Top 60 60 TEMPER TRAP 12) 59 PITBULL - GIVE ME EVERYTHING 58 BEYONCE - BEST THING 57 BRUNO MARS - MARRY YOU 56 VACCINES 11) 55 THE WANTED 54 DRAKE - HEADLINES 53 CHER LLOYD 10) 52 JAMES MORRISON/JESSIE J 51 ADELE - ROLLING IN THE DEEP 9) 50 M83 49 PROFESSOR GREEN - NEVER BE 48 SNOOP DOGG/WIZ KHALIFA/BRUNO MARS 47 ED SHEERAN - THE A TEAM 8) 46 BRUNO MARS - IT WILL 45 GUETTA/USHER 44 ADELE - SET FIRE 43 T.PAIN 42 ADELE - SOMEONE 41 SKRILLEX & THE DOORS 40 PROFESSOR GREEN/EMELI SANDE 39 LADY GAGA 38 LMFAO - PARTY ROCK 37 GOTYE/KIMBRA 36 OLLY MURS - HEART SKIPS 7) 35 JESSIE J - WHO YOU ARE 34 SKEPTA 33 JLS 6) 32 LITTLE MIX 5) 31 ONE DIRECTION 4) 30 SEAN KINGSTON 29 JAMES VINCENT MCMORROW 28 MICHAEL KIWANUKA 27 CHRISTINA PERRI 26 CHARLENE SORAIA 25 FOSTER THE PEOPLE 24 MILITARY WIVES 3) 9750 23 KATY PERRY 22 BIRDY - SKINNY LOVE 21 KELLY CLARKSON 20 PITBULL/CHRIS BROWN 19 PIXIE LOTT 18 RIHANNA - YOU DA 17 DRAKE 16 ED SHEERAN 2) 15 LMFAO 14 LANA DEL REY 7" 1) 13 BEYONCE 12 MAROON FIVE 11 RIHANNA/CALVIN HARRIS 10 GUETTA/SIA 16858 09 LABRINTH 17370 08 OLLY MURS 17749 07 COLDPLAY 21324 06 TAIO CRUZ 22491 05 LLOYD 24306 04 AVICCI 24787 03 RIZZLE KICKS 30017 02 FLO RIDA 37696 01 JESSIE J 44041 ) Without downloads alone Think we've got a sturdy top 10, here. David Guetta & Sia can only get as high as 8 for Sunday. Lloyd is likely to go infront of Avicci. Then further down, Pixie & Kelly will climb further, pushing Pitbull out of the 20. Gaga & Prof. Green are in danger of falling out, to be replaced by at least Skrillex & that's how it stands. Edited January 13, 201213 yr by davetaylor
January 13, 201213 yr That's about as perfect as we could be in 1962. No recognised Official type charts & never believe that a so called "Record Retailer" chart was official because it wasn't. Half the time (the chart that Guiness uses for 1960s charts) is so, so wrong it's quite breath taking. Record Retailer polled just 30 shops & then ended up with millions of ties in it's charts. Then, they proceeded to separate ties, depending on what was higher on the previous week. Many people never realise that Record Retailer actually had many unlisted joint number ones (that you'd never know about) including the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Acker Bilk, Everly Brothers & many more. In 1962, they got even more ridiculous, when they mixed up Acker Bilk with Kenny Ball & another time in 1966, when Nancy Sinatra was confused with the Small Faces, can you believe?! So, I urge all of you, always take Guiness & Record Retailer with a pinch of salt (or even better, throw them in the bin)! There's a thread on another forum arguing the same point and providing a host of examples. However, the RR charts are the best documented so we haven't got much choice rally. All we can do is assume that the early charts were at least close most of the time.
January 13, 201213 yr Author There's a thread on another forum arguing the same point and providing a host of examples. However, the RR charts are the best documented so we haven't got much choice rally. All we can do is assume that the early charts were at least close most of the time. I wouldn't go so far as saying that, they were ever close. A mess, yes & about as good as that show on Independant Radio i.e. Big Top 40! :lol: The most accurate chart has to always be, the one broadcasted by the mighty BBC & the one that we paid for with our licence fee. Edited January 13, 201213 yr by davetaylor
January 13, 201213 yr I wouldn't go so far as saying that, they were ever close. A mess, yes & about as good as that show on Independant Radio i.e. Big Top 40! :lol: The most accurate chart has to always be, the one broadcasted by the mighty BBC & the one that we paid for with our licence fee. As you will know, in the early days, the BBC chart was calculated as an average of the other published charts. Therefore, it will probably have been a reasonably accurate chart. However, as it was not a directly sales based chart, it is understandable that the original Guinness compilers didn't use it. Unfortunately the chart they did choose to use had such a small panel of shops that it couldn't possibly claim to be a representative sample. However, what's done is done. It would take a brave person to try and rewrite "official chart" history.
January 14, 201213 yr Author As you will know, in the early days, the BBC chart was calculated as an average of the other published charts. Therefore, it will probably have been a reasonably accurate chart. However, as it was not a directly sales based chart, it is understandable that the original Guinness compilers didn't use it. Unfortunately the chart they did choose to use had such a small panel of shops that it couldn't possibly claim to be a representative sample. However, what's done is done. It would take a brave person to try and rewrite "official chart" history. No charts in the 50s & 60s were based on sales. Whether it were RR, Melody Maker, NME, or whatever. All the papers did was collect various top 50s from shops & add them together, for though own average Top 20/30/50. The BBC just then, took them all & added them together for the a more accurate Top 30. Record Retailer just took 30 different charts from mainly Woolworths & WHSmiths & added them together, hence only half the story & separated tied positions. The worst of all point is the incomprehensible fact, that both those shops would only appeal to the older person, hence the teenage fan being handed a chart that had such things as Frank Ifield ahead of the Beatles & Nancy Sinatra ahead of the Stones, & worst of all Des O' Connor at the top! Anyway this re-writing Official History bit is nonsense, as you take your choice & many, many other books are available apart from Guiness, that do not use Record Retailer charts. There were no proper charts until Feb 11th 1969 in Britain & even those were not widely accepted until 1971. Edited January 14, 201213 yr by davetaylor
January 14, 201213 yr im totally confused about the charts in the 50s and 60s.so are the official charts not really 60 years old this year then, the 1952-69 charts were all a load of nonsense and alot of the beatles no1s were most likely inaccurate?! Good physical sales still for MWC - 8k cd and 1900 downloads,so the top 25 will nly have 11-12k in sales and the top 5 will be lucky to break 30k sales.id say well be lucky to get 3 million singles sales this week!!
January 14, 201213 yr Author im totally confused about the charts in the 50s and 60s.so are the official charts not really 60 years old this year then, the 1952-69 charts were all a load of nonsense and alot of the beatles no1s were most likely inaccurate?! Good physical sales still for MWC - 8k cd and 1900 downloads,so the top 25 will nly have 11-12k in sales and the top 5 will be lucky to break 30k sales.id say well be lucky to get 3 million singles sales this week!! Well Steve mate, the first proper sales based chart was launched on Tuesday 11th February 1969 & was compiled by the British Market Research Bureau funded by the BBC. What will be 60 years old this year is the NME chart & the first chart to be based on Records, rather than sheet music. The actual BBC Charts will be 54 years old on 30th March 2012. The actual "Offical" named chart will be 43 on 11th Feb. That's how it really pans out. Like we've said before, it's just that the people behind Guiness Books, that decided to use NME & Record Retailer charts because they were the charts with the most positions i.e. top 30s & top 50s. Though, no charts were ever correct below 30 anyway, due to the hyping of records at the time. Guiness Books (or whoever prints those books today) have not got the rights to print the NME charts in full by the way. Though they choose to refer to them for the 1950s. In actual fact, the NME is pretty out for 50s charts, just like Record Retailer is for the 60s. The Record Retailer was the most easy chart to hype, with it's 30 shop poll & just to prove it, in 1962, Brian Epstein got some people to go out to those 30 shops & buy "Love Me Do". This hyped the record into the top 20 at 17. In no other chart, did it even get that high. Amazingly, this showed when they failed to show "Please Please Me" at #1 in February 1963, when really it made the top for at least 2 weeks, unfortunately Record Retailer's 30 shop "easy listening" poll had Frank Ifield ahead of it, which was a definate no no. "Please Please Me" did really top the Record Retailer chart in a tie, but they never used ties, because there were some many of them in their chart, & the week's tie was seperated by going by the record which was higher, on the previous week. All of Record Retailer's charts are behind all the others of the day, because of their cut off periods & publishing days. Record Retailer was not seen by anyone in the 60s & the High Street shops all displayed the Melody Maker top 30. Where as in the 50s, they preferred to show "Record Mirror". To break any hyping, the BBC compiled their own top 20s/30s until that first sales chart on 11th Feb 69. The 31 to 50 part was still open to hype & that is why to this day, the BBC never mention anything outside the top 40. Of course, Radio One extended to a top 40 in May 1978, when British Market Research Bureau increased to a top 75. The early 1969 charts are still not that accurate, due to small sales returns. The chart panel was supposed to collect up to 300 stores sales, but were rather lower at 150. The Radio Chart was still under question until around early 1971, when it was more excepted by the media, but all the daily newspapers still preferred Melody Maker's chart up to the early 80s. You can't actually say that the R1 chart is actually nearly 100% until 1983, when Gallup collated data from over 1000 outlets. 150 to 300 was still a measily amount. Edited January 14, 201213 yr by davetaylor
January 14, 201213 yr 20 shops in 1962 is ridiculous...so it was basically a London chart lol.Was Record Retailer that times Music Week? Also what is a hyped record? Thats for clearing up alot of questions especially the bit about the origins in 1952 being a change from sheet to records!!How do you know so much lol!!
January 14, 201213 yr 20 shops in 1962 is ridiculous...so it was basically a London chart lol.Was Record Retailer that times Music Week? Also what is a hyped record? Thats for clearing up alot of questions especially the bit about the origins in 1952 being a change from sheet to records!!How do you know so much lol!!Record Retailer changed its name to Music Week in 1971. A hyped record is one that is bought by people working from the record label with the intention of getting the record higher up the charts. The practice was still going on in the 90s. Gallup, the then chart compiler for the official chart, were still removing records from the chart as late as 1991 and Millward Brown, who now compile the charts, removed a record from the charts in 2003 due to dodgy sales. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemonescent
January 14, 201213 yr haha i vaguely remember lemonscent but not their music.....i suppose it was much easier to hype records in the past! Thanks for clearing it up.I must read the Music Week edition from a couple of years ago with the hiatory of the charts, it was some anniversary edition!
January 14, 201213 yr Record Retailer changed its name to Music Week in 1971. A hyped record is one that is bought by people working from the record label with the intention of getting the record higher up the charts. The practice was still going on in the 90s. Gallup, the then chart compiler for the official chart, were still removing records from the chart as late as 1991 and Millward Brown, who now compile the charts, removed a record from the charts in 2003 due to dodgy sales. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemonescent There was a song removed from the chart due to 'hyping' as recently as 2009. The Cameleonz' Should I Stay suspiciously had something like 20 versions all in a row on iTunes, around #120-40. Showed up in the 20s on the first mids then vanished.
January 15, 201213 yr Other records to have been removed from the chart due to hyping: Don-E - Peace In The World (charted at #41 before being removed) Tatjana - Santa Maria (excluded from the top 20, was re-issued later in the year making #40) Modern - Industry (a relative of one of band bought about 150 copies for himself) Dualers - Don't Go (apparently had some of its sales removed but still charted at #61) Some Telford United single circa 2006 A song by B-Kay & Kazz (?) in 2008
January 15, 201213 yr There was a song removed from the chart due to 'hyping' as recently as 2009. The Cameleonz' Should I Stay suspiciously had something like 20 versions all in a row on iTunes, around #120-40. Showed up in the 20s on the first mids then vanished.I didn't realise it was still going on as late as 2009!
January 15, 201213 yr I didn't realise it was still going on as late as 2009! I think it's still going on now! The rules as exploited by Alex Day in the Christmas week are a hyper's paradise. (not accusing Alex of doing anything wrong by the way)
January 15, 201213 yr I think it's still going on now! The rules as exploited by Alex Day in the Christmas week are a hyper's paradise. (not accusing Alex of doing anything wrong by the way) The OCC obviously didn't see that as suspicious activity though. It's just a devoted fanbase buying it multiple times, happens with all acts with sizeable fanbases.
January 15, 201213 yr I think it's still going on now! The rules as exploited by Alex Day in the Christmas week are a hyper's paradise. (not accusing Alex of doing anything wrong by the way)In that way we could also include "Killing In The Name" by RATM as that also was bulk purchased and was actively hyped by many people in that they were encouraging people to buy as many copies as possible from as many sites as possible. The difference is that the record label weren't sending reps in to record stores to buy copies or to get stores to falsify chart returns as used to be the case in the past.
January 15, 201213 yr In that way we could also include "Killing In The Name" by RATM as that also was bulk purchased and was actively hyped by many people in that they were encouraging people to buy as many copies as possible from as many sites as possible. As was the Joe McElderry single the same week in return (I can't even remember the name of the track at the moment - senior moment!
January 15, 201213 yr No one else can really - it was the climb though lol.i suppose if its the recrd company doing it then its wrong and should be disqualified!
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