I was surfing another forum recently when a discussion arose about the genre of 'pop' and well, whether or not it existed! It got me thinking, and I've always thought the definition of pop was very... hazy, nobody ever seems to be able to agree on what it is. You can even see the disagreements on here in BJSC, where some people will argue that iamamiwhoami are totes super duper pop, while others would say Katy Perry's last album veered dangerously close to indie at times.

 

So anyway I'm just curious as to what you lot think, is pop a specific sound or is it just what's popular? If it's a sound, where exactly is the line between indie and pop? And when will Katy Perry stop releasing random indie nonsense?

I personally don't like to use 'pop' as a genre. Sounds a bit stupid, but on my iTunes I just really dislike labelling the genre as 'pop'. In my mind, 'pop' is just anything popular and that could be anything from electro-pop to dance-pop to operatic pop! So I always label things as such, many people would just say pop IS a genre but I just can't.

 

The whole indie and pop line is more blurred than ever really, and sometimes the disagreements can get very very tedious. Lana Del Rey for example really IS pop, she has an indie alternative tinge and isn't the same thing as say Britney Spears or Madonna, but I hate when some people act like she's really alternative. Quite a lot more music than people realise is essentially pop in my opinion.

Hmm... I personally think it's kinda both. Something popular and it does have its own sound which is probably impossible to describe. I don't think it means it's generally easier to listen as that's just an opinion.

 

In other words when it's not any other genre, then it's Pop. :P

 

Admittedly, I do label some of the files I have as Pop as umm... they're not really anything else.

Edited September 10, 201313 yr by FM11

Lady Gaga.

Well you could say Pop = Popular but remember that Indie = Independent Label. I think the genre's have grown enough to take on lives of their own. I'd say pop is just commercially influenced music or music designed to be popular. I guess a 'formula' just developed for this so much it is now recognisable in songs really. Its very hard to directly class something as pop though - I'd call Katy Perry more 'bubblegum pop' personally. 'Indie pop' is I guess a mixture of the two - not commercial, but still influenced by that sound (if that makes sense?)

 

Likewise, 'Indie' is often just thrown around as a substitute for 'alternative' these days and I can't think of many songs that can purely be classed as 'indie'.

I could give a list of pop songs or artists that are generally considered pop, but I couldn't really give a definition of it myself. However, looking at Urban Dictionary - one getting past the "gay music 12 year olds listen to" comments - I found this:

 

"Pop songs generally have a 3-minute, hook/verse structure...written for immediate likability, often written by corporate record label executives, and "pushed" by a front-person or people, commonly referred to as the artist or artists."

 

Which is pretty correct.

Most of the indie that even the hipster members of BJ listen to is pop music. Even more experimental artists like Autre Ne Veut, Glasser or jj to name just three, no question. But of course there's still the distinction between that and The Saturdays or whatever. I'm just not quite sure what it is.

 

Pretty sure I don't really care either, ha. It doesn't matter!

I'd say music where the key focus in the creation is based on hooks and crafting elements that stick in people's minds, such as earworms, rather than any higher artistic aspiration beyond immediate musical gratification.

 

I say I'd say that, but that probably rules out some artists that are quite unmistakably pop: Madonna, Gaga, et al. So probably anything that has that as one of the big key motivations in composition. But I'd say the definition between pop and other genres is probably akin to the definition of the difference between art and pornography - I don't know if I can define it, but I know it when I hear it.

Of course, Pop is the music genre.

 

Music genres (my personal qualification)

 

1. "Pure Pop"

Samples : ABBA, Britney Spears, Steps, Pet Shop Boys, Elton John, Westlife, Girls Aloud.

 

2. "Country" (Only 1 another music genre, which somewhere near with pop music, because Shania Twain, Taylor Swift and Carrie Underwood)

 

3. "Something different from Pop" (Most peoples use term "britpop")

Samples : Oasis, Coldplay, Divine Comedy, Manic Street Preachers, Blur, Texas, Blondie.

 

4. "Rock" (I use this term only for hard rock, metal)

Samples : Linkin Park, Korn, Nine Inch Nailes, Rage Against The Machine.

 

5. "Dance" (all electronic music)

 

6. "Urban" (R & B, rap, hip-hop, soul)

 

7. "Classic" (opera)

 

8. "Unlistenable alternative shit"

Samples : Bjork, Iamamiwhoami, Lamb, Grimes

 

In summary : Pop music for me is "Pure Pop" and "Country" categories.

Category 3 can be "Pop" for peoples, who like 4 and/or 8 categories from my qualification.

Edited September 11, 201313 yr by AlexRange

while others would say Katy Perry's last album veered dangerously close to indie at times.

:'D

 

5. "Dance" (all electronic music)

HUNNAY!

I agree with one point that Alex is making - that pop music is a genre.

 

Just because something is a genre doesn't mean it can be defined, i.e, a line drawn where it starts and where it ends. But it can be described. Bands from other genres can and do write pop songs - The Cure, for example, have written fantastic pop songs but they're generally not referred to as a pop group.

 

I do like the Urban Dictionary suggestion that it is written for immediate likability.

back in the day, chart music (singles) was referred to as pop (Top Of The Pops was the name of the show) and album music (led Zep without singles for example) any number of titles. The music biz love to rename and redefine old styles to make them sound fresh and new and exciting for the next generation of music fans but the terms dont make sense sometimes - Taylor swift, like most modern Country, isnt really country in the traditional sense, she's pop, and most of the rest is Rock. Indie isn't indie, it's Rock, except that Rock acts arent really Rock these days, they're what we used to call Metal or Progressive or Heavy.

 

Pop really is the only pure name that carries on, and the more sniffy parts of music like to use it as a negative derisory term. I say, turn it around, make it cool again and just call everything that's popular Pop! Great music acts skip happily between genres, so sod the names and just call it pop music... :lol:

Naming subgenres and artists who are pop gets us no closer to defining what it is than saying 'cats, dogs and fish' answers the question of what defines an animal.

Oh wow this actually got replies. Colour me surprised.

 

I've thought about it for a little bit and I guess the Urban Dictionary explanation is quite close to my own feelings on the subject. I really feel it's as simple as "pop = straight-forward". That sounds overly simplistic but I think it works. Even when you get the somewhat more 'ambitious' pop artists like Madonna, Gaga et al, the music is still easily latched onto (and if it's not, well, perhaps they decided to go a bit indie for a while). I would say at least one of the trio of lyrics, vocals and production need to be "straight-forward" - the more straight-forward (accessible, simple, whatever) each part, the more pop you get. The opposite is also true, the less straight-forward you get, the more you veer into indie territory. "Weird" = indie, "normal" = pop, and it's a sliding scale.

 

What that means is that the more pop you get, the more generic you get too, as most would define being generic as being extremely simplistic (i.e. being a basic blueprint for whatever genre you belong to).

Is something like, say, Blitzkreig Bop pop under that definition?

 

 

Pretty straight-forward on all counts (although this may just be with the benefit of hindsight, I can't remember which year it was recorded so it may well have still been revolutionary at the time)

5. "Dance" (all electronic music)

 

7. "Classic" (opera)

 

lol

Is something like, say, Blitzkreig Bop pop under that definition?

 

 

Pretty straight-forward on all counts (although this may just be with the benefit of hindsight, I can't remember which year it was recorded so it may well have still been revolutionary at the time)

I would say yes. It's very basic, the only thing I could possibly give it is slightly odd vocals. So I'd say it's definitely pop, though under a sub-genre that people would often associate with indie (like punk-pop, or whatever).