A good summary of why Scottish Labour are failing and continuing to fail.

 

In short it seems that Labour finds itself with a less popular policy stance than it might have hoped, while voters are still inclined to be sceptical about the party’s ability to provide Scotland with effective government. Against that backdrop it is hardly surprising that the party has achieved little in its efforts to prise those who voted Yes to independence away from the SNP – 83% of Yes voters still say they will back the nationalists, who with 51% on the constituency vote and 47% on the list are apparently still set to secure a second overall majority.

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2016/04...gy-not-working/

 

Again, 'proven safe pair of hands' doesn't really work when everything that goes wrong is mysteriously the fault of Westminster. It's more like a goalkeeper taking credit for all the saves but blaming everyone else for the goals.

 

'No original ideas' is fairly rich given anything proposed as a solution to said problems is by turns either 'talking Scotland down' (the most ludicrous and embarrassing retort to a policy critique probably ever conceived by a modern political party. That it somehow has traction says a lot about the state of politics north of the Border), '#snpbaaaaaaaad' (dear me) or 'making Scotland pay for Westminster' (?! for the notion of what would happen after independence!).

Regardless of what silly retorts those in nationalist circles are saying (I've heard them all and the atmosphere leading up to the referendum made me SO GLAD I fucked off to Belgium just in time), the voters Labour are trying to win back have little to gain from not voting SNP or Greens. Especially not when Scottish Labour are still a bit too tied down to Westminster Labour.

Just back from attending a hustings for the first time in my constituency (Belfast North). There was a lot to take in from it, mainly that I find the Green Party NI to be a bunch of annoying, obnoxious tw*ts.

Haha why is that?

A fairly large proportion of the audience were members of the local GP, and throughout the debate they talked over other speakers, refused to let other members of the audience speak (at one point they refused to hand the microphone back to the moderator), and whenever the moderator started to ask the candidate a difficult question, they effectively tried to shut down the opportunity for him to respond in order to save face. That and the general undeserved smugness that surrounded those members in attendance as well. It really says it all that I came out of the hustings with a better opinion of the DUP than I did of the Greens.

Who's standing there in North Belfast for them? I know in my south Belfast constituency Clare Bailey has a decent chance of a second seat for them - I really like Steven Agnew as well. But I'd say in North Belfast they will be far behind SF and the DUP due to the mix of nationalist/unionist interfaces there. I find it strange in that constituency too the mix of left wing candidates who will clearly cancel each other out - what's the difference between PBP and The Workers Party?

That sounds pretty identical to my impression of RISE/SSP then.

My problem being that they put candidates up In working class constituencies and split the vote leaving the DUP to get an extra seat!

Who's standing there in North Belfast for them? I know in my south Belfast constituency Clare Bailey has a decent chance of a second seat for them - I really like Steven Agnew as well. But I'd say in North Belfast they will be far behind SF and the DUP due to the mix of nationalist/unionist interfaces there. I find it strange in that constituency too the mix of left wing candidates who will clearly cancel each other out - what's the difference between PBP and The Workers Party?

 

Malachai O'Hara's standing for the Greens. Not that he's getting my vote. I don't mind Steven Agnew myself, and I do have environmental sympathies, but the tone of the membership and the direction they're moving in doesn't sit well with me. Interestingly, in Agnew's constituency Brian Wilson, who was the leader of the Green Party before him and was the first Green Party MLA, is standing as an independent against him. Haven't read into the reason why he left the party or why he's running against Agnew, but will be interesting to see if it splits his vote up.

 

It seems as if once you get beyond a certain point on the left wing of the political spectrum things start to get very Judean Peoples' Front/Peoples' Front of Judea, with their insistence on their own version of ideological purity and splits over must seem like the most trivial of things to outsiders. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point one of the parties split over a furious debate over what side of a boiled egg you crack open to eat it. Although it terms of N Belfast it's a bit of a moot point anyway, as both PBP or the Workers' Party will be lucky to crack 3 figures in 1st preference votes. (Although PBP have a good shot at picking up 2 seats - Gerry will probably nab one of Sinn Fein's 5 in West Belfast, whilst Angry Eamonn could clinch a seat in Derry as long as the 2nd preferences don't count against him again).

 

I do think that the DUP will lose a seat in North Belfast, although to the benefit of the UUP.

Hope Gerry Carroll gets in - he's building a head of steam in that constituency, fair play to him. It sounds strange being a nationalist but I think it's bad that West Belfast has exclusively nationalist reps - a unionist wouldn't be a bad thing there!

 

South Down is the other constituency I have family links to and there seems to be a similar situation to N.Belfast only loads of unionists - TUV, UKIP, UUP, DUP & Independent Unionist John MacAllistair (who I really like as a local candidate)!

 

Not many left wingers in that conservative rural constitutional nationalist seat - only really a austerity lite SF & Greens!

I knew that Patrick Harvie was contesting my seat, but I didn't realise until this morning that Scottish Greens are only contesting 3 constituencies so it's a fairly unique opportunity to vote Green twice - I think I'll take it!

Yep, only the four traditional parties taking part in my seat too. No UKIP either.

 

Thinking I'll return to my traditional Lib Dem vote for the seat and give a vote to Green at regional level.

Regardless of what silly retorts those in nationalist circles are saying (I've heard them all and the atmosphere leading up to the referendum made me SO GLAD I fucked off to Belgium just in time), the voters Labour are trying to win back have little to gain from not voting SNP or Greens. Especially not when Scottish Labour are still a bit too tied down to Westminster Labour.

Well, if they wanted anything done about cuts in Scotland (i.e. increased tax and spending to avoid them), then yes, there's a lot they'd have to gain from voting Labour rather than voting SNP (I can't speak for the Greens but I imagine they likely have tax increases in their manifesto).

The majority of working people in Scotland only pay tax at the lower rate. I can totally see them QUEUEING up to vote for an increase in the lowest tax band, unlimited increase in council tax and no reduction in APD all for less investment in the NHS.

 

With policies like that I really have absolutely no idea why the polling agencies think the SNP will win. Clearly Labour have the best policies and record on the economy. Only a blinkered idiot would think otherwise.

The majority of working people in Scotland only pay tax at the lower rate. I can totally see them QUEUEING up to vote for an increase in the lowest tax band, unlimited increase in council tax and no reduction in APD all for less investment in the NHS.

 

With policies like that I really have absolutely no idea why the polling agencies think the SNP will win. Clearly Labour have the best policies and record on the economy. Only a blinkered idiot would think otherwise.

 

The thing is, "blinkered idiots" form an overwhelming percentage of the voting electorate.

The majority of working people in Scotland only pay tax at the lower rate. I can totally see them QUEUEING up to vote for an increase in the lowest tax band, unlimited increase in council tax and no reduction in APD all for less investment in the NHS.

 

With policies like that I really have absolutely no idea why the polling agencies think the SNP will win. Clearly Labour have the best policies and record on the economy. Only a blinkered idiot would think otherwise.

Okay, so why exactly are you in favour of independence again? Oil money isn't going to pay for a fairer Scotland anymore, if it was ever going to. Higher taxes are clearly out, judging from this post. Forgive me if I'm struggling a little on the details, but...it almost sounds here like the main justification for independence is a nationalist one based on, ahem, 'neoliberal' economic policies, rather than a socialist one.

 

And yes, this is exactly why the SNP are winning. Scottish Labour's platform for this election is literally following all of the implications given for what the point of independence was and what the point of getting rid of Labour last year was. Red Tories? Here, have a socialist economic and fiscal policy. Fairer Scotland? Here, use the levers Scotland has to raise more money and spend more on the least well-off. Oh wait, everyone wanted centrism and tax freezes and just a little bit of increased spending all along? Wasn't that why everyone called New Labour Red Tories who did nothing for Scotland?

 

Which is the entire point of the Scottish Labour campaign. Yes, they're going to get thrashed tomorrow. That's going to prove the point: what's the case for Scotland being so different from the rest of the UK (and ergo independence being justified) if they only want the rhetoric of a left-wing government and not the actions of one? Solely a nationalist one. And at the same time, the case for New Labour 'betraying' Scotland in any real policy sense becomes nonsense too. And by the process of elimination, we get the beginnings of a roadmap to recovery.

I agree but by process of elimination we also come back to the 80s when Labour had a majority in Scotland but due to the tories dominating England (the south of) Scotland got dictated to by a tory government at Westminster. Its not just nationalism here its the undemocratic nature of Westminster government imo.

So I voted early this morning as Im playing football later so wouldnt get round to it until after 9pm!

 

Its STV in N.Ireland so plenty of choices if you want -

 

I went -

 

1) Sean Burns (Cross Community Anti-Austerity Alliance)

2) Lily Kerr (The Workers Party)

3) Claire Bailey (Green Party) South Belfast could make history and have its first ever GP MLA.

4) Marge Anton (Northern Ireland Labour Rep Committee) These are the guys who went against the Labour Party in London trying to stop them standing candidates in the province. Apparently they will be expelled due to this.

5) Martin O'Muilloire (Sinn Fein)

 

Which is the entire point of the Scottish Labour campaign. Yes, they're going to get thrashed tomorrow. That's going to prove the point: what's the case for Scotland being so different from the rest of the UK (and ergo independence being justified) if they only want the rhetoric of a left-wing government and not the actions of one? Solely a nationalist one. And at the same time, the case for New Labour 'betraying' Scotland in any real policy sense becomes nonsense too. And by the process of elimination, we get the beginnings of a roadmap to recovery.

I'm sympathetic to Labour so I'm TRYING to get on board with the idea that they would be an appealing political party if only the SNP weren't part of 'the establishment'. But this doesn't really agree for a start. scotvote16.com is comparing manifesto policies and it's a WhatScotlandThinks sister site btw. S. Labour are marginally more economically to the left but the SNP are rather more socially liberal - the difference is there but it's unclear and not too large anyway. And if we're going to talk about actions, then Westminster Labour's apathetic period of opposition is fresh in voters' minds. As for dissent, there are actually quite a good chunk of former SNP voters who've been turning away from them due to them being too centrist, but they're going to one of the three (?) parties further to the left than both Scottish Labour and the SNP. I'm under no illusion that the left are going to make major headway this year, but add up the votes from Greens/SSP/RISE and you'll find a lot of people who are less than happy with the SNP. Naturally, left-leaning SNP voters aren't going to switch to an anti-independence party which is seen as very split (can I include the m******* word in this sentence?).

 

You're right that the main difference between Labour and the SNP is their stance on independence rather than economic and social policy. But that's a problem in itself.

Voted in the London Mayoral election just now for Labour~ So pleased we're finally gonna be rid of Boris and I'm glad it's looking likely for Sadiq, especially after that desperate and rather offensive article Zack Goldsmith posted last weekend about him (no thanks to the picture the Daily Mail put with it, who agreed to publish his shit ofc. <_< )

 

I was kinda tempted to put this guy as my second choice though, bless him :kink:

 

G'WON SADIQ! Barnet have screwed up big time by the sounds of it.

 

I only had the PCC to vote in but as always made sure that I voted.