As you’ve been repeatedly told; the control that we “lack” is a consequence of the UK government choosing not to implement various elements of Article 21 of the TFEU. It is not EU law that means we have no “control” over our border but actually gaps in domestic law.

 

EU law states that:

 

- Stays of longer than three months (ie not a tourist) should be registered in line with local rules. (Doesn’t exist in the UK)

- EU migrants must be moving for work or to seek work or to study or to train. Where this is not the case, the migrant must have sufficient resources to support themselves without recourse to public funds in the host state & they must have comprehensive health insurance via whatever method is in place in the host state.

- right to permanent residence comes after 5 years. This is in line with *every* other visa type.

- families members regardless of citizenship who are accompanying or joining an EU citizen who meets the above requirements are also entitled to free movement.

 

EU law requires that the migrant not become “a burden” on the social security system of the host state.

 

We also have the right to curtail free movement rights for public safety, public health and public order reasons AND can remove someone for these grounds even after they have attained permanent residence. They can also be banned from entering the country. As a non-Schengen state we check the passports of every EU national. We have the right to refuse entry to any of them in line with domestic law.

In Germany I have had to:

 

- Register with the Bürgeramt within 14 days of moving to Berlin in line with German Law.

- Register for and pay for Health Insurance with a Krankenkasse. (€650 a month!)

 

I moved for employment so no need to prove that I have the means to support myself. I am blocked from accessing public funds for a period of time though. At any time I can be asked to present my passport, work contract and proof of health insurance and can be fined for not presenting the documents.

Your failure to comprehend basic EU law is a damning indictment of this entire farce. 4.3m people are having their lives turned upside down because the British government has failed in the fundamental task of implementing EU Law appropriately. We have the ability to be in full control, we choose not to be. This is a UK government failing, not an issue with the EU

 

YES!!

 

Don't expect him to reply. He has been getting destroyed in here recently and so just ignores the points.

 

 

YES!!

 

Don't expect him to reply. He has been getting destroyed in here recently and so just ignores the points.

 

Cast all the zingers you want, but that doesn't alter the fact that Brexit is *still* happening in 4 days time... :mellow:

Edited January 27, 20205 yr by vidcapper

And we have destroyed all your arguments for it even happening. You got 50%. It's a coup.

Michael your inbox is full. I'm worried about you as you've seemed very angry since you came back. Try and chill a bit and think of your blood pressure.

Today is, of course, the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. A commemorative service is being held with representatives from countries such as Germany, Poland, the USA etc. So, who has our government sent? Nobody.

The UK was represented by the Duchess Of Cornwall, representing The Queen, and Sadiq Khan.

To our resident rightwingers: with respect, why do you even come in a discussion thread if you refuse to have a discussion or ever respond to the posts that others painstakingly type out in an attempt to engage? In my view that is approaching trolling tbh. I think I've been really open and willing to listen to your perspectives and you just haven't provided any instead changing the subject and acting smug each time you are questioned or challenged.

To our resident rightwingers: with respect, why do you even come in a discussion thread if you refuse to have a discussion or ever respond to the posts that others painstakingly type out in an attempt to engage? In my view that is approaching trolling tbh. I think I've been really open and willing to listen to your perspectives and you just haven't provided any instead changing the subject and acting smug each time you are questioned or challenged.

 

 

Which post would you like me to specifically answer?

Uh how about...any of them? Like just one.

To our resident rightwingers: with respect, why do you even come in a discussion thread if you refuse to have a discussion or ever respond to the posts that others painstakingly type out in an attempt to engage? In my view that is approaching trolling tbh. I think I've been really open and willing to listen to your perspectives and you just haven't provided any instead changing the subject and acting smug each time you are questioned or challenged.

 

When we try responding to questions, we just get accused of being brainwashed by Leave propaganda.

The UK was represented by the Duchess Of Cornwall, representing The Queen, and Sadiq Khan.

Sadiq Khan was representing London, not the UK. The PM or Foreign Secretary could have gone but, clearly, they didn't think it was worth while.

Sadiq Khan was representing London, not the UK. The PM or Foreign Secretary could have gone but, clearly, they didn't think it was worth while.

 

 

Why make assumptions? Maybe they were too busy running the country and preparing for Friday.

What makes it even more ridiculous is that most of the restrictions were imposed on the insistence of the UK government.

I didn’t know that but am not surprised. Sounds very british.

 

To our resident rightwingers: with respect, why do you even come in a discussion thread if you refuse to have a discussion or ever respond to the posts that others painstakingly type out in an attempt to engage? In my view that is approaching trolling tbh. I think I've been really open and willing to listen to your perspectives and you just haven't provided any instead changing the subject and acting smug each time you are questioned or challenged.

I think we crossed the line between trolling and non-trolling years back. This is precisely why people are actively fleeing this part of the site. You make a post and lay out the arguments and, in this case what the law actually states, and then they just flounce by or pick one throw away sentence in amongst 65 others and react solely to it.

 

Honestly how much longer I can continue to post here with free reign given to people who point blank refuse to engage I honestly don’t know.

Why make assumptions? Maybe they were too busy running the country and preparing for Friday.

If it had been a Corbyn-led government snubbing the event, the cries of "anti-Semitism" would have been deafening.

I think we crossed the line between trolling and non-trolling years back. This is precisely why people are actively fleeing this part of the site. You make a post and lay out the arguments and, in this case what the law actually states, and then they just flounce by or pick one throw away sentence in amongst 65 others and react solely to it.

 

Honestly how much longer I can continue to post here with free reign given to people who point blank refuse to engage I honestly don’t know.

 

Whatever they don't address I take it as to mean I've won. If they're going to be evasive that means that their views are not good enough to air in public.

 

Additionally I would like to remind them and others of this post, if I or the N&P mods see a post that is trolling that adds no value to discussion, or it is a non-sequitur that directs a thread off of its assigned topic, it will be deleted and warnings may be issued.

 

Or even if I think the discussion that leads from it is going to be particularly tiresome, it's going. No one needs another post from Vidcapper saying to Michael some variation of 'democracy doesn't work that way :rolleyes: ', nor do we really need Michael's doom-mongering. There's no use repeating old and tired discussion points without new articles or events that change the argument we've already had, especially from the three posters here who I can guarantee will never change their minds no matter what evidence is presented.

 

yes I can see you typing 'well shouldn't we just delete the whole Brexit thread then' and let me stop you right there, I work on nuance and not absolutes.

Honestly how much longer I can continue to post here with free reign given to people who point blank refuse to engage I honestly don’t know.

 

What is wrong with simply stating our opinions - surely it's only trolling if we don't actually believe what we are saying, and are just being mischievous. :mellow:

 

In a few days the emphasis will surely change into why we should rejoin, anyway?

What is wrong with simply stating our opinions - surely it's only trolling if we don't actually believe what we are saying, and are just being mischievous. :mellow:

 

 

Exactly. Or if we kept changing our opinions back and forth just to post and start arguments. We have been consistent.

Edited January 28, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

In a few days the emphasis will surely change into why we should rejoin, anyway?

 

 

That argument will rattle on long after I'm dead.

Exactly. Or if we kept changing our opinions back and forth just to post and start arguments. We have been consistent.

Consistently trolling. If you really wanted to have a conversation you would actually go deeper. Like Phil said, just reacting to one sentence out of dozens points raised doesn't give me or many people (if I may say so) much faith or patience. Oh and pointing out grammatical/spelling mistakes doesn't help your case either. This is beyond petty. This is the skeleton of the "dialogue" that's usually being had with you two:

 

Someone: *raises 10 points about an issue*

CC/VC: I assume you meant *insert a misspelled word*. ANYWAY, you're wrong.

 

(Le fin)

What is wrong with simply stating our opinions - surely it's only trolling if we don't actually believe what we are saying, and are just being mischievous. :mellow:

 

In a few days the emphasis will surely change into why we should rejoin, anyway?

 

This is a forum. It's for discussion between people. Yes by all means air your opinions, but when your opinions are challenged with factual evidence don't be surprised to be in a position where you have to defend them.

 

We could have some very interesting conversations on here between two groups of people with opposing views who are willing to listening to each other. Instead what we get is a variation of this(exaggerated maybe but you get the point):

 

Chris/Vidcapper: A lot of XYZ are criminals, you just don't know!

 

Other posters: Well actually that's not quite true and here is evidence that supports this.

 

Chris/VIdcapper: ................

 

It gets rather tiresome.