He/she will cut taxes in 2024 as an election bribe.

Thereby leaving an even bigger mess for the winner of that election to clear up.

Aren't we all hoping the new Tory leader reneges on a lot of their promises to win the leadership, particularly the economically mad tax cuts?

 

yes? because we're ideologically opposed to it? It'd still be a lie on their part.

 

There is a glaring issue that Starmer got himself elected by promising standard (and crucially not extreme, there's easily political space for him to stand by his pledges if that was his desire) left-wing fare to the Labour base but is now stumbling over himself in interviews about 'having to be practical' because he got himself elected by lying. It doesn't look like the conviction of a leader.

@1547697620222484483

 

THIS. However, I'm so done with the LAbour Party I couldn't really care any less about this.

God he's such a TURD! I wss never taken in by him. I wanted Richard or Angela.

@1547832309717426176

 

I remember the days when this was considered a right-wing 'hard Brexit' position

 

 

 

 

What utter horseshit. And I've heard he's now throwing Proportional Representation under the bus too.

Aren't we all hoping the new Tory leader reneges on a lot of their promises to win the leadership, particularly the economically mad tax cuts?

 

Uh — blatant lies to get elected is bad anywhere on the political spectrum.

 

Rightfully pointing out the dishonesty and hypocrisy of the current government and then rationalising why others lie doesn't make sense to me. It's purely ideological.

There's pragmatism sure and there are things I don't want but reluctantly will go along with (like not having a Rejoin movement in the next 10 or so years, zero chance electorate will go for that). But wihat Starmer is doing is pretty much now indistinguishable from the Tories and what is worse they have the most boring man on the planet to sell them.

 

Maybe we have to have the Tories to win another GE and get a decent leader who cares about people - Burnham or Sadiq Khan maybe. I don't think wiser to go further left but those would be far better.

 

 

@1547832309717426176

 

I remember the days when this was considered a right-wing 'hard Brexit' position

 

Me too, but now the "democracy" argument has won, a Labour government getting into power and immediately setting out to reverse Brexit would indeed be something that'd sink them into a one-term government and out of office for a generation again.

 

I would be far more comfortable with a Labour led economy, and that interview in full does set up a better relationship with EU than I've seen the Tories do.

One term?? Bring in pr, reverse brexshit, control the rabid far right press, and boom. A more modern country with an actual democracy.

Some mad takes in here- Starmer has just done exactly what the Tory leadership contestants are doing now with their “right-wing” views to appeal to a very small demographic of people who have absolutely no baring on who wins an election. I don’t like it either, but that’s the way our two main parties run themselves. Likewise Starmer’s position on Brexit is probably not his own personal view, but to win back the heartlands in the North it has to be his view. I don’t think for one second we are better off out of the EU but unfortunately it’s what we voted for. In 10-15 years time I suspect the movement to rejoin will grow, but that is some time away and taking an anti-Brexit stance is just walking in to the Tories hand.

 

I’m not a huge fan of FPTP either, but I’m not sure PR is the answer either, yes it safeguards us from 5 years of a horrible government but also makes it way easier for the likes of Farage to gain power. I’m not sure there is a perfect system, all systems bring up their own challenges and positives.

Too right. Most of us hated Brexit and the damage it's done (and I still maintain there was corrupt foreign interference on top of lies) but any party saying it's going to ignore the result is going to be voted against by those that voted for it. The best that can be hoped for is a more practical relationship with the EU that causes less damage.

 

PR. Yes well Labour had the opportunity to support this publicly a decade ago and in its wisdom didnt. They held a non-committal position along with the Raving Monster Loonies, so the public basically had minor parties vs Labour/Tory, the 2 parties that only ever have a chance to govern alone under the current system. Just saying. So, same as Brexit. Public said no after a lacklustre campaign. it's not going to be a vote winner.

 

What do people want to hear? That the NHS is supported better then the crisis-led massive-death toll that is ongoing under lying Tories. Ambulances are taking forever to deal with critical cases. There is no social support for people in the community so they stay in hospital. Doctors encourage home care. This is a fact, I have personal experience of it.

 

That something will be done about inflation. That wages will try to keep pace with inflation. That houses will be built to ease to the Housing problems.

 

These are the crucial issues that will determine the next election. You make sure you are hammering on about it non-stop, not getting side-tracked into other issues that may not be universally supported. Blair got elected then he made big changes to social issues for the better while (appearing to be) a competent manager of the economy. So he kept getting re-elected.

 

 

 

 

Good to see Sir Keir confirmed he was lying when he said he believes in nationalisation today when he said he wouldn’t nationalise the nations assets except think about Railways.

 

Good to see him confirming he’s the good liberal we all knew he was!

Good to see Sir Keir confirmed he was lying when he said he believes in nationalisation today when he said he wouldn’t nationalise the nations assets except think about Railways.

 

Good to see him confirming he’s the good liberal we all knew he was!

Given the dreadful mess he will inherit if he becomes PM at the next election, I'd put nationalising the utility companies well down the priority list.

Even as prices rise inextricably?

Good to see Sir Keir confirmed he was lying when he said he believes in nationalisation today when he said he wouldn’t nationalise the nations assets except think about Railways.

 

Good to see him confirming he’s the good liberal we all knew he was!

 

Outside of a small group of people though, nationalistation is not something the voters who Starmer is trying to appeal to is something that they want. Too costly an exercise right now, not sure nationalising trains would be the right thing in the short term, although I do agree massively train fares should at least be overhauled. But ultimately before we nationalise anything, I think we have to upgrade the infastructure which isn't going to happen under pure public ownership.

 

The key thing at the moment is to try not to alienate the Centre voters - I read the comments as natioanlisation just is not the immediate priority right now, but that is not to say it is off the cards.

This is a persistent issue though, Starmer really can't run on 'I'm the guy to restore trust in politics' when he got elected on lying to the memberbase. He made the commitment to put nationalisation in his manifesto during the Labour leadership campaign. They're 'baseline commitments', according to interviews from that time. And the thing with baseline commitments is that you don't retreat from them, you argue FOR them. Starmer's Labour never does that.

 

Starmer has an opportunity to push this line that he does already have going about 'broken public services', he is already making noise about wanting to fix them. Nationalisation pays for itself quickly and protects consumers, there's no need to give into the Tory and liberal line on it. Basic utilities ultimately should not be in the private sector.

 

I'm fine with strategically delaying some things to manifesto times but would not solutions to utility bills be the sort of rhetoric that is actually just welcomed by the public at this time?

He did say he'd nationalise the railways and introduce regulation on energy and water markets in an interview this morning.

Edited July 26, 20222 yr by Smint

Outside of a small group of people though, nationalistation is not something the voters who Starmer is trying to appeal to is something that they want. Too costly an exercise right now, not sure nationalising trains would be the right thing in the short term, although I do agree massively train fares should at least be overhauled. But ultimately before we nationalise anything, I think we have to upgrade the infastructure which isn't going to happen under pure public ownership.

 

The key thing at the moment is to try not to alienate the Centre voters - I read the comments as natioanlisation just is not the immediate priority right now, but that is not to say it is off the cards.

 

People paying thousands of £ a year on energy bills are exactly the sort of people Starmer is trying to attract surely as everyone is suffering now and the neoliberal economic system has been shown once again to be a failed private monopoly.

Edited July 26, 20222 yr by Steve201

Outside of a small group of people though, nationalistation is not something the voters who Starmer is trying to appeal to is something that they want. Too costly an exercise right now, not sure nationalising trains would be the right thing in the short term, although I do agree massively train fares should at least be overhauled. But ultimately before we nationalise anything, I think we have to upgrade the infastructure which isn't going to happen under pure public ownership.

 

The key thing at the moment is to try not to alienate the Centre voters - I read the comments as natioanlisation just is not the immediate priority right now, but that is not to say it is off the cards.

 

The key thing is to try not to alienate the centrist voters? NO - the key thing is to address the cost of living crisis.

 

The French have just nationalised EDF: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/...and-ukraine-war