Given Amazon have their own streaming service I doubt they will invest or care about a dying downloads market. When you click on an album on their site the first option they usually give you or push is Amazon prime.

 

My local Asda's music section is down to about 20 titles now.

 

Companies just aren't interested in selling or giving shelf space to a dying format and this includes downloads and cds. CD Albums will in a couple of years be internet order only I'm sure.

I personally can't see the option of buying a download ever reaching the stage of becoming an impossibility, even if iTunes decides to phase them out. I'm sure there's always going to be a market for it, even if it's a niche one - and the music industry likes to take advantage of niche markets. Just look at soaring vinyl sales, and there's even some titles being released on cassette nowadays, a format which for most of the last decade seemed like it was completely obsolete and would never return - yet it has, which indicates that labels have determined there's enough profit to be made to justify printing cassettes. Therefore I'd be surprised if labels were willing to restrict any potential purchasers from at least having the option to download.

 

Streaming is useful in many respects, but as others have already pointed out, it can be unreliable. There's numerous examples of pre-digital era songs that aren't on Spotify at all, or they are available in some countries but are geoblocked in the UK for unexplained reasons. There's even examples of music released in the digital era that isn't available to stream, even though you'd think anything released since the late 2000s would be around for life.

 

Assuming that streaming is the final possible form of music consumption and will be the standard for decades to come: there could very well be current artists/songs/albums released this year, that you'd assume will always be available, that may disappear in say 10-15 years time, if that artist has been dropped / has fallen out of favour. So in 2030, labels might decide to stop licencing certain 2017 hits or flash-in-the-pan artists that have been largely forgotten about. Or maybe there'll be an increase in situations like Beyoncé, with their material restricted to one particular streaming platform. I doubt many could justify subscribing to Spotify and/or Apple Music and/or Tidal at the same time. It's not as convenient to jump between the streaming platforms to access certain music, as it is via downloading.

 

Anyway, my main thought is that a total dominance of streaming as the form of consumption, is a thought that makes me feel a bit uneasy... so I truly hope downloads will continue to be an option for a very long time to come, even if it's not via iTunes. I'm kind of surprised that any music fan (at least those over the age of 25?) would 100% embrace streaming as the sole form of music access and support a complete phase out of downloads.

I guess I have just never bothered with downloads anyway. I streamed on youtube most songs I liked long before Spotify or Apple music. Now I've moved to streaming on Spotify.

 

I still buy the odd cd album but maybe 1 or 2 a year max and only to complete my collection. I have Tori Amos new album on cd but stream it 95% of the time I listen to it.

 

 

Before I discovered the charts my main source of music came from a charity shop where I could get 3 albums for a quid. If all you want is a bit of extra music then that's clearly a better option than forking out for a Spotify subscription.

Adding to the debate, there is also the possibility that the streaming provider you subscribe to could just close down or be bought out. For all Spotify is the market leader it still is a loss making venture (it has never turned in a profit during all the time it has existed) that is being kept afloat by investors. If investors think they are never going to see a profit they could just decide to pull the plug. It's very unlikely to happen but if it did your streaming collection with Spotify would be gone. At least a dowload would still be in your possession (unless the file became corrupted or your hard drive dies and you haven't backed up your collection...).

 

That said, I've only bought a small amount of downloads in 2017 and the last one ('New Rules' by Dua Lipa) was bought in August. I am currently subscribed to three (!) streaming services, Spotify, Apple Music and Amazon Music though the latter is a 3 month subscription that was on offer on Black Friday for 99p for the entire three months. I mainly use Spotify and am unsure about how long I will keep subscribing to Apple Music but I do like the way that streaming is integrated in with downloads so that I don't have to go to two different libraries in iTunes to find what I want. Amazon Music needs some work done on the interface though. It looks good but I have to look in too many places to find what I want.

Although streaming is a good option for most people, there are disadvantages

 

- You can't burn to CD

Not really a problem. There is lots of free software (such as Audacity) that you can use to record music from a free streaming service. The song can then be saved to your computer and hence moved to a CD. Cost is zero.

It may be illegal but ......... :rolleyes:

That said, I've only bought a small amount of downloads in 2017 and the last one ('New Rules' by Dua Lipa) was bought in August. I am currently subscribed to three (!) streaming services, Spotify, Apple Music and Amazon Music though the latter is a 3 month subscription that was on offer on Black Friday for 99p for the entire three months. I mainly use Spotify and am unsure about how long I will keep subscribing to Apple Music but I do like the way that streaming is integrated in with downloads so that I don't have to go to two different libraries in iTunes to find what I want. Amazon Music needs some work done on the interface though. It looks good but I have to look in too many places to find what I want.

Spotify have that integration too, under the 'Your Library' header there's a 'Local Files' section which has all the songs you've downloaded. You can also save local files for offline listening and add them to your playlists (though they will be greyed out for others if you share the playlist.

 

It's not the same as iTunes where your downloads and streaming songs are all in the same library but it's close enough.

Adding to the debate, there is also the possibility that the streaming provider you subscribe to could just close down or be bought out. For all Spotify is the market leader it still is a loss making venture (it has never turned in a profit during all the time it has existed) that is being kept afloat by investors. If investors think they are never going to see a profit they could just decide to pull the plug. It's very unlikely to happen but if it did your streaming collection with Spotify would be gone. At least a dowload would still be in your possession (unless the file became corrupted or your hard drive dies and you haven't backed up your collection...).

 

That said, I've only bought a small amount of downloads in 2017 and the last one ('New Rules' by Dua Lipa) was bought in August. I am currently subscribed to three (!) streaming services, Spotify, Apple Music and Amazon Music though the latter is a 3 month subscription that was on offer on Black Friday for 99p for the entire three months. I mainly use Spotify and am unsure about how long I will keep subscribing to Apple Music but I do like the way that streaming is integrated in with downloads so that I don't have to go to two different libraries in iTunes to find what I want. Amazon Music needs some work done on the interface though. It looks good but I have to look in too many places to find what I want.

 

It's unlikely Spotify will shut down though. Every year it is increasing its subscribers, it might operate at a loss currently but it is only going to continue to grow and its competitors are too far behind in the market already. It does need to continue to be innovative though.

Whats the problem for Apple to swallow Spotify? They are 100's times bigger in terms of market value?

 

With Spotify never profitable and Apple profits of well over 100 billion dollars yearly?

 

Its only a matter of time unless they already not bouying shares before takeover?

Not really a problem. There is lots of free software (such as Audacity) that you can use to record music from a free streaming service. The song can then be saved to your computer and hence moved to a CD. Cost is zero.

It may be illegal but ......... :rolleyes:

Not so much illegal as breaching (certainly for Apple Music) T&C's. Tracks on Apple Music are saved in an Apple propriety DRM format .m4p. There are some converters out there that can turn m4p files which the user has downloaded for offline use into mp3's which can then be moved over to a CD etc but these are not free. I'll not name the one I once tried as it will possibly breach the T&Cs for posting on BuzzJack but it worked perfectly. But it would have cost £40 to buy (I downloaded an evaluation copy which works for 30 days and has a restriction on use) and it worked without a hitch. But again it breaches Apple Music's T&C's, specifically the one that says that any content in Apple Music must in no circumstances be downloaded in a way that can enable it to be transferred to a CD etc. This is because there is a restriction on how many devices an account holder can play the content on and it must always be played through the Apple Music interface.

 

Whats the problem for Apple to swallow Spotify? They are 100's times bigger in terms of market value?

 

With Spotify never profitable and Apple profits of well over 100 billion dollars yearly?

 

Its only a matter of time unless they already not bouying shares before takeover?

 

I assume it is that people are loyal and trust what they already know which is Spotify. A bit like how iphone's are pretty crap now compared to other android phones but people still stick with Apple as they know them and have been with them for years.

 

(Late reply oops)

 

I'm not in favour of it closing but I think it's certainly a possibility, especially given Apple have been advertising Apple Music on the iTunes front page encouraging people to 'stop paying for songs individually' which obviously won't help the abysmal sales :lol: I used to buy of iTunes but for my birthday two years ago I got a Spotify subscription and initially used it occasionally but since winter 2015-ish I've barely used iTunes unless I've been given a gift card for it, it's saved me an incredible amount of money paying £10 a month for everything.

 

I think if iTunes shuts as soon as 2018, it would be a silly move from Apple and would probably benefit Amazon MP3 more than Apple Music really. I know I'd just migrate to another download site if iTunes shuts.

It's obviously your choice but isn't that just a bit stubborn? :lol: You're a music fan and so I'm sure your music expenditure would be more than £10 a month, staying on iTunes after always using it I can understand but switching to another download site after iTunes goes dark would just be a waste of money and make your library messier at the same time :lol:

Not really a problem. There is lots of free software (such as Audacity) that you can use to record music from a free streaming service. The song can then be saved to your computer and hence moved to a CD. Cost is zero.

It may be illegal but ......... :rolleyes:

 

I've tried that, and the quality is nowhere near as good

Not so much illegal as breaching (certainly for Apple Music) T&C's. Tracks on Apple Music are saved in an Apple propriety DRM format .m4p. There are some converters out there that can turn m4p files which the user has downloaded for offline use into mp3's which can then be moved over to a CD etc but these are not free. I'll not name the one I once tried as it will possibly breach the T&Cs for posting on BuzzJack but it worked perfectly. But it would have cost £40 to buy (I downloaded an evaluation copy which works for 30 days and has a restriction on use) and it worked without a hitch. But again it breaches Apple Music's T&C's, specifically the one that says that any content in Apple Music must in no circumstances be downloaded in a way that can enable it to be transferred to a CD etc. This is because there is a restriction on how many devices an account holder can play the content on and it must always be played through the Apple Music interface.

 

Thanks for the info. I might be persuaded to switch yet.

It's obviously your choice but isn't that just a bit stubborn? :lol: You're a music fan and so I'm sure your music expenditure would be more than £10 a month, staying on iTunes after always using it I can understand but switching to another download site after iTunes goes dark would just be a waste of money and make your library messier at the same time :lol:

That's the thing though, it wouldn't be making my library messier, it'd be keeping it as neat as it currently is. I've got everything sorted as neatly as I like it to be and I like downloads partly for that reason. I use Spotify so I'm not against it, I even pay for premium so I can use offline when my rather old iPod runs out of battery (doesn't take much), I just prefer my iTunes / iPod library and Spotify or Apple Music will never quite feel the same.

Nobody here is saying streaming is a bad thing!

 

All I'm saying is that there are some valid reasons why people don't want to switch, and that download sales will not collapse to almost nothing like some people think. I also think the fact the biggest download store is threatening to stop selling music downloads, purely to help boost subscriptions to their streaming service, is bad for consumer choice.

 

I said there are plenty of people who don't *NEED* access to millions of songs, or at least not enough to pay £10 a month for the privilege. They either already have built up a library they are happy with that they only top up with a few albums a year, or they're just not into music in the same way we are. Some people are happy to just put on the radio, buy Now compilations to put on in the car, and download the occasional song on their phone when they fancy.

 

Not going to go into the royalties issue as it doesn't interest me.

 

You put your point across very well. I got one moved to Apple Music because I generally had a phone which filled up with songs and it wasn't the easiest to put them on a main PC drive it was so slow. I also certainly use £10 a month in value so it's well worth it for me. I would still def love to buy all my music collection as a physical product in an ideal world but it isn't practical because my wife is annoyed I've kept as many cd singles and cd albums as I do. Now I generally use Apple Music as I've said and buy one Record a month in general as I have a record player (the best way to listen to music imo) and buy 'classic' rather than new music for it.

 

 

People like me will always buy music. There will always be a market for mp3s because it offers a permanent ability to sort tracks into any format in any order for the rest of your life. I like reviewing whole years of music and its much easier just getting a cd out than searching for tracks from personal charts.

 

If there was a 100% guarantee spotify would never go out of business, that every playlist you have ever created for the whole of your lifetime remains available and that every track on every record ever released would be on the service, then i would be convinced. That isnt the case so i will keep buying until it is. Around 10 or 20% of my vinyl and cd collection is not on spotify....

I do that now myself especially since totps on bbc4 started - I have a 'best of 1984' on my phone and plan to continue doing it each year totp is on.

From Music Week

'We've reached the tipping point': BPI's Geoff Taylor talks soaring streaming numbers

by Andre Paine

January 10th 2018 at 6:00AM

 

The music industry has been toasting its success in the past 12 months, following the recent market figures for 2017 published by the BPI and ERA. In the latest issue of Music Week, we dig into the data and look ahead to how the biz can consolidate those streaming results in 2018. Here’s more from Geoff Taylor, chief executive BPI and Brit Awards, on his take on the labels’ performance and the third year of growth…

 

Has streaming officially become the future of the business?

Yes, clearly we’ve reached the tipping point where the majority of music consumption is streaming. But I think what’s most encouraging is that the rate of growth – still growing at more than 50% a year – shows that we’re some way from it having plateaued. I think there are a lot of people who still haven’t experienced music streaming. We take for granted in metropolitan centres like London that everybody knows what Spotify is. Actually there’s still plenty of room for growth and I think more and more older consumers will get involved in streaming – that shows there’s a lot of potential value still to be realised for the industry. At the same time, I think the resilience of physical formats shows a very healthy picture, so we look forward with a lot of optimism.

 

Are there signs streaming growth has peaked?

It would be ambitious to expect that the rate of growth remained as high, it would be normal for that to gradually reduce. We have every reason to hope that if we continue to release great music, and continue to innovate in the streaming experience, then there’s a lot of potential still to grow.

 

How important was a strong release schedule last year?

I think what was encouraging in 2017 were the breakthroughs. In particular, Stormzy, Dua Lipa, Rag’N’Bone man, J Hus, these were all proper British breakthroughs and you see some of those artists like Dua Lipa going on to international success as well. So I think the conveyor belt of talent, and the jobs that the labels are doing in identifying and marketing talent, is clearly firing on all cylinders. It needs to be because when you look at the strength of the international competition, there’s some great music coming out of the US.

 

Is the CD here to stay?

CD has its role, there are lots of consumers for whom it’s still really convenient, that’s the way they access music in their car. We’ll continue to see it drop off but everyone’s been surprised, I think, by how long it’s remained around, it’s a great format, and the increases in vinyl clearly mean physical overall is performing better than most people would have expected.

 

What about downloads?

It’s understandable that for most people who are going into digital music now, streaming is the more logical way forward than buying downloads. So we can expect that dynamic to continue, but I don’t think Apple are likely to turn off downloads imminently and they still have a role to play in the market. The great news for consumers is that, whichever way you want your music, you can get it. There’s never been more music available so easily, so it’s a great time to be a music fan. Our job at the labels is just to make sure that there’s fantastic British music out there, and that’s why I’m so encouraged that 2017 has been a good year

 

What are the challenges for 2018?

The big issue for this year is integration with voice, so smart speakers – we need to make sure that British artists still get their share in a curated environment. That’s already true on streaming, it will be more true as more people access their music through smart speakers. So we need to make sure that that isn’t a bottleneck that works to the advantage only of the biggest global superstars, but that emerging artists also can feature and people can discover in the same way through voice assistants as they currently can do on screen. That’s one of the challenges for us that everybody is working hard on.

 

From digitalmusicnews.

Apple Formally Asked Not to Kill iTunes Music Downloads

As the guillotine dangles over the head of iTunes music downloads, artists are starting to take urgent action. That includes the Content Creators Coalition (CCC), a top musician advocacy group. During its latest earnings call, Apple CEO Tim Cook didn’t mention iTunes music downloads — not once.

 

Instead, the Apple chief proclaimed steady progress and booming revenues from a range of other, more modern platforms. “We had all-time record revenue from the App Store, from Apple Music, from iCloud, from Apple Pay and more, all of which are a powerful illustration of the importance of our huge active installed base of devices and the loyalty and engagement of our customers,” Cook declared. And when it comes to music, all the emphasis has shifted to Apple Music, which now boasts more than 40 million subscribers. “Apple Music reached a new record for both revenue and paid subscribers, which have now passed 40 million,” Cook shared.

 

None of which bodes well for iTunes music downloads, which are strongly rumored to be on the chopping block. Since 2016, sources to Digital Music News have pointed to a planned phase-out, with the latest estimates pointing to an early 2019 closure. After that point, Apple will no longer sell iTunes music downloads, but will continue to support previous downloads and existing MP3s.

 

Even iPod porting will still work (which unsurprisingly has a strong group of entrenched users). Sounds like the march of technological progress. But just one problem: paid downloads pay far better than streams, by an unbelievable multiple. Critics call the comparison apples-to-oranges, though most musicians, labels, and publishers miss the comparatively lucrative format.

 

Meanwhile, Apple’s PR department has denied that any plans exist to terminate its paid download offering. But Apple executive Jimmy Iovine has publicly conceded that paid downloads will be nixed once demand falls below a certain threshold, and even iTunes installations in markets like South Korea have skipped the format.

 

Accordingly, the Content Creators Coalition, a leading musician advocacy group, is formally requesting that Apple preserve music downloads on its iTunes Store.